Football "Kyle Orton is for real" - Page 4

Quesadilla Joe · 06-25-2009, 11:31 AM

October 20, 2008
BY GREG COUCH Sun-Times Columnist
Kyle Orton was ready to take the snap and saw something in the defense that didn’t look right. So he backed away, changed the play call, walked down the offensive line and yelled out what he was doing, pointed to players and told them what positions to move into.

He looked like Peyton Manning. Of course, with people sitting around me, I didn’t say that out loud. It would have been embarrassing.

Then he dropped back into the shotgun formation and fired an 18-yard touchdown pass into tight end Greg Olsen’s chest.

The Bears beat the Minnesota Vikings 48-41 on Sunday to remain tied for first place in a style Chicagoans haven’t seen before: with terrible defense and a quarterback who was darn right solid.
Above average, even.

Actually, he was better than that. But I never would use the word ‘‘great’’ about Orton. It would be embarrassing.

But he threw for 283 yards. Two touchdowns. No interceptions. He spread the ball around the field, completing passes to seven players. His passer rating was 114.5, and if that means nothing to you, just know this: It’s better than darn right solid.

And the Vikings kept scoring, giving Orton a chance to crumble. Instead, he kept coming back, too.
It has been hard not to be reserved about Orton. I mean, you see 60 years of embarrassingly bad quarterbacking, with an occasional year as an exception, and how could you commit to Orton?
Chicago always has loved its backup quarterbacks, but that was less about what they wanted to see than what they wanted to get rid of.

So Orton sat on the bench, while the savior — What was his name? Oh, yeah, Grossman — filled the traditional role.

Now Orton takes over, and it’s like the water boy coming in. Every time I’ve mentioned him lately, it has been to praise him, but always with reservation. He’s not a star, but he’s better than expected.
No Pro Bowler, he does have a feel of the offense.

It might be time to say the obvious, say it out loud and not be embarrassed.
Kyle Orton is for real.
He is the leader of the Bears.
I’ll need a little more time before going further.

‘‘What can you say about Kyle?’’ Olsen said. ‘‘He is turning into an elite passer in this league.’’
‘‘He really has a command of what he wants to do,’’ Vikings coach Brad Childress said.
‘‘It seems like each week, he takes another step,’’ Bears coach Lovie Smith said.

Easy for them to say.
But Marty Booker dropped an easy touchdown pass in the second quarter, and the Bears ended up getting just a field goal. And what did Orton do?
‘‘I told him right away when it happened to him that I was coming right back to him,’’ he said.
Well, it wasn’t until the third quarter that Booker had his 51-yard touchdown catch. Orton said Booker turned on his burners.
Burners? Booker?

‘‘No, he doesn’t look that fast,’’ Orton said. ‘‘I think he was pretty tired after that.’’
Booker said Orton’s encouragement was a big deal. And remember, this was a 25-year-old telling a veteran that it was OK.

It seems ridiculous to say that Orton is the leader. The quarterback is supposed to be. He has the ball all the time.

But it has only been the last two weeks that he has grown into the job.

We already knew in the opener at Indianapolis that Orton could manage the offense, not screw up. Grossman always was screwing up, so this was plenty from Orton. The defense could win the games if Orton just wouldn’t lose them.

But last week in Atlanta, he took that no-huddle drive for what looked like a fantastic finish, and something changed.
Yes, the coaches and defense blew the game, but let’s not relive that now.
The thing was, with coaches out of his head, Orton was able to lead. Surely, the defense can’t win games anymore.

So that left offensive coordinator Ron Turner to open up the playbook, to go without reservation with Orton.

Frankly, Turner and the coaches had the same reservations I did. But open your mind to Orton and see him throw all the different passes NFL quarterbacks have to throw.

Turner’s image is about to change back, too. He once was considered some sort of offensive guru, then went to Illinois, where things didn’t work out. Then he came back to the Bears and was attached to Grossman. So it wasn’t working out again.

Now he’s the guy developing Orton.
If Orton has an ego, he doesn’t show it, which is good enough for the locker room. He names everyone on the team as playing with a common goal.
‘‘I don’t think we have any egos on offense, to be honest with you,’’ he said. ‘‘It’s 11 guys in there together.’’
It feels so strange to have a quarterback. And it’s amazing to think that the coaches evaluated Grossman all these years as the better choice.
In fact, they were so into babying Grossman that in his first few years, they didn’t want him to feel the pressure of a legitimate quarterback behind him.
So they kept Orton.
All this time, they were playing the wrong guy. But that’s all changed, finally.
Who knows what Orton can do.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/thewire/foot...is_new_leader/

Mile High Mania · 06-25-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

"Look at Jake Plummer's supporting cast and what he was able to do with zero talent around him on offense. He'll be a REALLY good QB with Shanahan calling complicated, explosive plays, where he can roll out, scramble, and use that incredible arm of his."

Do you guys plan on playing the Chiefs' 2002 defense every game? That's the only way Orton has any success at all in his first year as Broncos QB, I'm afraid.

Denver likely won't win 6 games this year... would have had issues doing that with Cutler. The schedule is amazing. You guys focus too much on Orton, he's not the focal point and if they lose, he likely won't be the reason.

Just Passin' By · 06-25-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

"Look at Jake Plummer's supporting cast and what he was able to do with zero talent around him on offense. He'll be a REALLY good QB with Shanahan calling complicated, explosive plays, where he can roll out, scramble, and use that incredible arm of his."

Do you guys plan on playing the Chiefs' 2002 defense every game? That's the only way Orton has any success at all in his first year as Broncos QB, I'm afraid.

Jake Plummer won in Shanahan's system. Cutler didn't.

wasi · 06-25-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Totally agree on the defense aspect... however, I don't see the Denver offense being totally dependent upon Orton. There's a reason they drafted Moreno and piled up guys like Jordan and Buckhalter in the offseason. It's not going to be pass happy crazy like it was in 2008.

Will Orton's role be increased compared to the caretaker role he played in Chicago? Most certainly.

Will Denver's defense put them in situations where they will have to abandon the run and play catch-up? Oh yeah... the only thing that I can say is that (with Marshall) and the other weapons, he has a better chance at being successful in that role compared to anything he had in Chicago when those situations came up.

It'll definitely be an interesting thing to watch if he can pull it off.

Mile High Mania · 06-25-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Jake Plummer won in Shanahan's system. Cutler didn't.

Yeah and for whatever reasons (I can't explain it), look at the VAST drop off in defense in those years. Look at their statistical rankings with both, it's crazy. Also, the ground game never really suffered when Plummer was there... not so much with Cutler, especially last year.

**RealSNR** · 06-25-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Jake Plummer won in Shanahan's system. Cutler didn't.

Why did Shanahan get rid of him halfway through the season?

Mile High Mania · 06-25-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

Why did Shanahan get rid of him halfway through the season?

Well, they were 7-4 and my guess is that after trading up for Cutler and watching Plummer... he said "we're still in the hunt, let's make the move".

Are you wanting me to say that KC ushered in the Cutler era b/c Jake's last start was a loss at KC? If so... ok.

That was their second loss in a row and 3 TDs and 5 INTs in the last 3 starts... going 1-2. Jake had only thrown for more than 250 yards in 1 game that season through 11...

I dunno.

**BigMeatballDave** · 06-25-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Jake Plummer won in Shanahan's system. Cutler didn't.

My God, you are reeruned...

chiefzilla1501 · 06-25-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724

Tom Brady is overrated. He is a good QB, but he's not head and shoulders above Manning, Rivers, Big Ben, Drew Brees, or Kurt Warner.

You're an idiot.

A healthy Brady is neck-and-neck with Peyton and head-and-shoulders above everyone else after that.

Just Passin' By · 06-25-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNR

Why did Shanahan get rid of him halfway through the season?

Shanahan would probably say that Plummer didn't play well enough, or that Cutler beat Plummer out. I'd say that Shanahan had his golden boy and saw what he wanted to see, so he pulled the trigger too early.

Plummer was not going to be an elite QB and Cutler had/has the tools. Coaches get caught up in that all the time, the same as the fans do.

**BigMeatballDave** · 06-25-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KnowMo2724

Tom Brady is overrated.

L.A. Chieffan · 06-25-2009, 02:47 PM

brutal. please ban pos

Just Passin' By · 06-25-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigChiefDave

My God, you are reeruned...

Really? Well, according to Pro-Football-Reference.com, Plummer was 39-15 as the starter in Denver. Cutler was 17-20. That would mean.....

Quote:

Jake Plummer won in Shanahan's system. Cutler didn't.

Assuming, of course, that you understood that a record above .500 was "winning" and .500 or below was not.

Frazod · 06-25-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Really? Well, according to Pro-Football-Reference.com, Plummer was 39-15 as the starter in Denver. Cutler was 17-20. That would mean.....

Assuming, of course, that you understood that a record above .500 was "winning" and .500 or below was not.

I assume you blame Trent Green for our defensive failures in 2003 as well.

SBK · 06-25-2009, 02:51 PM

Threads like these make it so hard to leave....

Just Passin' By · 06-25-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frazod

I assume you blame Trent Green for our defensive failures in 2003 as well.

I didn't credit anyone. I made a simple point in response to the poster. It would be a mental exercise to try to assess why it spiraled down for the Broncos. However, we've seen repeatedly that a change in quarterback can lead to a defense/team playing better or worse. In New England, the Patriots were 0-2 before Bledsoe went down, and finished the season on an 11-3 run plus the playoffs and Super Bowl win with a QB change. Denver started the split season at 7-4 with Plummer under center, and finished 2-3 behind Cutler. The "why" matters, but it's just guesswork.

06-25-2009, 11:31 AM
Quesadilla Joe Abolish The Salary Cap! Join Date: Mar 2008 Casino cash: $3408675	"Kyle Orton is for real" October 20, 2008 BY GREG COUCH Sun-Times Columnist Kyle Orton was ready to take the snap and saw something in the defense that didn’t look right. So he backed away, changed the play call, walked down the offensive line and yelled out what he was doing, pointed to players and told them what positions to move into. He looked like Peyton Manning. Of course, with people sitting around me, I didn’t say that out loud. It would have been embarrassing. Then he dropped back into the shotgun formation and fired an 18-yard touchdown pass into tight end Greg Olsen’s chest. The Bears beat the Minnesota Vikings 48-41 on Sunday to remain tied for first place in a style Chicagoans haven’t seen before: with terrible defense and a quarterback who was darn right solid. Above average, even. Actually, he was better than that. But I never would use the word ‘‘great’’ about Orton. It would be embarrassing. But he threw for 283 yards. Two touchdowns. No interceptions. He spread the ball around the field, completing passes to seven players. His passer rating was 114.5, and if that means nothing to you, just know this: It’s better than darn right solid. And the Vikings kept scoring, giving Orton a chance to crumble. Instead, he kept coming back, too. It has been hard not to be reserved about Orton. I mean, you see 60 years of embarrassingly bad quarterbacking, with an occasional year as an exception, and how could you commit to Orton? Chicago always has loved its backup quarterbacks, but that was less about what they wanted to see than what they wanted to get rid of. So Orton sat on the bench, while the savior — What was his name? Oh, yeah, Grossman — filled the traditional role. Now Orton takes over, and it’s like the water boy coming in. Every time I’ve mentioned him lately, it has been to praise him, but always with reservation. He’s not a star, but he’s better than expected. No Pro Bowler, he does have a feel of the offense. It might be time to say the obvious, say it out loud and not be embarrassed. Kyle Orton is for real. He is the leader of the Bears. I’ll need a little more time before going further. ‘‘What can you say about Kyle?’’ Olsen said. ‘‘He is turning into an elite passer in this league.’’ ‘‘He really has a command of what he wants to do,’’ Vikings coach Brad Childress said. ‘‘It seems like each week, he takes another step,’’ Bears coach Lovie Smith said. Easy for them to say. But Marty Booker dropped an easy touchdown pass in the second quarter, and the Bears ended up getting just a field goal. And what did Orton do? ‘‘I told him right away when it happened to him that I was coming right back to him,’’ he said. Well, it wasn’t until the third quarter that Booker had his 51-yard touchdown catch. Orton said Booker turned on his burners. Burners? Booker? ‘‘No, he doesn’t look that fast,’’ Orton said. ‘‘I think he was pretty tired after that.’’ Booker said Orton’s encouragement was a big deal. And remember, this was a 25-year-old telling a veteran that it was OK. It seems ridiculous to say that Orton is the leader. The quarterback is supposed to be. He has the ball all the time. But it has only been the last two weeks that he has grown into the job. We already knew in the opener at Indianapolis that Orton could manage the offense, not screw up. Grossman always was screwing up, so this was plenty from Orton. The defense could win the games if Orton just wouldn’t lose them. But last week in Atlanta, he took that no-huddle drive for what looked like a fantastic finish, and something changed. Yes, the coaches and defense blew the game, but let’s not relive that now. The thing was, with coaches out of his head, Orton was able to lead. Surely, the defense can’t win games anymore. So that left offensive coordinator Ron Turner to open up the playbook, to go without reservation with Orton. Frankly, Turner and the coaches had the same reservations I did. But open your mind to Orton and see him throw all the different passes NFL quarterbacks have to throw. Turner’s image is about to change back, too. He once was considered some sort of offensive guru, then went to Illinois, where things didn’t work out. Then he came back to the Bears and was attached to Grossman. So it wasn’t working out again. Now he’s the guy developing Orton. If Orton has an ego, he doesn’t show it, which is good enough for the locker room. He names everyone on the team as playing with a common goal. ‘‘I don’t think we have any egos on offense, to be honest with you,’’ he said. ‘‘It’s 11 guys in there together.’’ It feels so strange to have a quarterback. And it’s amazing to think that the coaches evaluated Grossman all these years as the better choice. In fact, they were so into babying Grossman that in his first few years, they didn’t want him to feel the pressure of a legitimate quarterback behind him. So they kept Orton. All this time, they were playing the wrong guy. But that’s all changed, finally. Who knows what Orton can do. http://www.sportsnet.ca/thewire/foot...is_new_leader/
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06-25-2009, 02:47 PM	#56
L.A. Chieffan PLAY GOOD FOOTBALL Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: American Gardens Building Casino cash: $2688654	brutal. please ban pos
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06-25-2009, 02:51 PM	#59
SBK Curry is the pick??? Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Georgia Casino cash: $10004900	Threads like these make it so hard to leave....
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