To the Herm haters.

[kcbubb]

I'm tired of all the blame going to Herm. Yes, Herm had his share of blunders but the amount of hate that he gets is ridiculous. The biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating the impact of Jared Allen. And I did too at the time. In 2007, the Chiefs almost had a top 10 defense despite their terrible offense. We know what happened in 2008. But we are quick to forget the defense of 2007. I'm not saying the Herm was a great coach, but he is not as bad as some here believe.

Just to irritate you, lets take a look at what might have been if Herm had stuck around.

-First the acquisition of Cassell never happens. Herm sticks with Thigpen and Gailey runs the system that worked well in the latter half of the season.

-The switch to the 3-4 never happens and the Chiefs continue to run a 4-3 defense.

-Most likely, no notable free agents are picked up.

-Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs.

-The draft rolls around and Herm takes the safe route as usual and picks the following players:

1. Aaron Curry
2. Everette Brown (Herm likes this pick bc of the desperate need for a pass rusher to replace Jared Allen who was lost in 07 and the success of another small DE Dwight Freeney with the Colts where his role model Tony Dungy coached.)
3. Antione Caldwell (Mal Moore leadership award winner is drafted here) Herm kinda player. And can play all line positions but primarily C or G.
4. Louis Murphy (Herm picks a wide out for the needed depth and Murphy provide some speed.)
5. Jasper Brinkley (Tough middle linebacker probably starts.)
6. Andrew Gardner (RT tackle pushes or replaces McIntosh)
7. Captain Munnerlyn (CB and returner)
7. Ricky Jean-Francois (depth at DT)
7. Ryan Succop K


And to top it off. After speaking with Tony Dungy about Michael Vick, who has been mentoring Vick, Herm trusts Dungy and decides to give Vick a shot at backing up Tyler Thigpen.


Would all of this happened... probably not, but it is interesting to think about what might have been if Herm and Carl would have stayed. Again, I don't think Herm is great and I definitely don't think Carl was good, but I do wonder what might have happened. I do like the draft above much better than our current one, and I do like that we still would have Tony G.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Skip Towne

Marty won from the day he set foot in KC. And he won before that and after that. He always had great defenses but little offense. Stram was the same way. He won a lot of 13-6 games.

First, Marty was known to be one of the best coaches in the game when it comes to evaluating and preparing players. No doubt he was hands down better than Herm as a coach.

But he also walked in with a fresh GM committed to making a big splash in the NFL. Over time, Peterson got wrapped up in loyalties. He stopped hiring coaches based on their track record, he started hiring coaches/coordinators based on how well he knew them. Interesting to note that Gunther/Vermeil/Herm all had long-standing, previous relationships with Peterson before they were hired.

It was this loyalty that led to the hiring and retention of Lynn Stiles, even though he ****ed up multiple drafts. And it was his notorious hardball tactics that led to reports of agents doing everything in their power not to negotiate with the Chiefs.

So the Carl Peterson during the Marty era was markedly different from the CP during the Vermeil/Herm era. He used to be about the team. Toward the end, he was all about protecting his friends.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

First, Marty was known to be one of the best coaches in the game when it comes to evaluating and preparing players. No doubt he was hands down better than Herm as a coach.

But he also walked in with a fresh GM committed to making a big splash in the NFL. Over time, Peterson got wrapped up in loyalties. He stopped hiring coaches based on their track record, he started hiring coaches/coordinators based on how well he knew them. Interesting to note that Gunther/Vermeil/Herm all had long-standing, previous relationships with Peterson before they were hired.

It was this loyalty that led to the hiring and retention of Lynn Stiles, even though he ****ed up multiple drafts. And it was his notorious hardball tactics that led to reports of agents doing everything in their power not to negotiate with the Chiefs.

So the Carl Peterson during the Marty era was markedly different from the CP during the Vermeil/Herm era. He used to be about the team. Toward the end, he was all about protecting his friends.

Each coach is free to put his own stamp on his team. DV was offensive minded and was able to build a great offense with the guys he picked up - Green, Roaf, Holmes, Kennison, Weigmann, etc.

Who did the great defensive guru, Herm Edwards, pick up to improve the defense? His two best players (Allen and DJ) were Vermeil picks.

Who told Herm to go with Brody Croyle as the face of the franchise? Who told him to dismantle a good special teams? Who told him to run LJ into the ground? If not for Vermeil's second greatest draft pick, Colquitt, Herm Edwards would have been lucky to win a single game the last two years.

Herm had three years of full drafts to do something and he crapped himself.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by LaChapelle

Bullshit on past drafts. Herm was going to live or die by one of his draft choices. Brodie Croyle.

I honestly can't believe someone thought Brodie Croyle was a legit QB of the future, that one was pretty mind boggling.

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by Mecca

I honestly can't believe someone thought Brodie Croyle was a legit QB of the future, that one was pretty mind boggling.

but but but but but but but he set all the school touchdown records at Alabama

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by billay

but but but but but but but he set all the school touchdown records at Alabama

And my response would be, who the **** has played at Alabama? Exactly.

[Skip Towne]

Originally Posted by Mecca

And my response would be, who the **** has played at Alabama? Exactly.

Joe Namath?

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Skip Towne

Joe Namath?

I knew that was coming but the simple answer to that is. The passing game today and when he played are massively different.

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by Mecca

And my response would be, who the **** has played at Alabama? Exactly.

I was never a Croyle fan either infact I used to post on another Chiefs message board and I would rip on him, Huard, Dante Hall, and Herm. I was the Mecca of Chiefshuddle lol

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by billay

I was never a Croyle fan either infact I used to post on another Chiefs message board and I would rip on him, Huard, Dante Hall, and Herm. I was the Mecca of Chiefshuddle lol

I'm really not that bad it's just the team sucks and I'm not going to say guys that aren't any good are good.

But that Hali, Pollard, Croyle draft drew a huge amount of venom from me I hated it.

[Reerun_KC]

You can hate on me Mecca. I was a Croyle supporter, yet his fragileness did us all in. Now we are hiding in shame...

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Each coach is free to put his own stamp on his team. DV was offensive minded and was able to build a great offense with the guys he picked up - Green, Roaf, Holmes, Kennison, Weigmann, etc.

Who did the great defensive guru, Herm Edwards, pick up to improve the defense? His two best players (Allen and DJ) were Vermeil picks.

Who told Herm to go with Brody Croyle as the face of the franchise? Who told him to dismantle a good special teams? Who told him to run LJ into the ground? If not for Vermeil's second greatest draft pick, Colquitt, Herm Edwards would have been lucky to win a single game the last two years.

Herm had three years of full drafts to do something and he crapped himself.

QFT

Very Very nice post... Couldnt of said it better myself!

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

His claim was that Herm had a chance to rebuild and only won 6 games in 2 seasons.

The truth is, Herm wanted to rebuilt immediately and especially after the first season and Peterson outright refused to listen. And so, in 2008, it was two years too late and the team was in complete disarray. This is pretty much common knowledge right now. And to make matters worse, our GM did ZERO due diligence on the entire coaching staff and hired the two coordinators from within instead of at least looking at outside options.

The truth is, Herm inherited a shitty team and was never given much opportunity to make it his own. I don't know how anyone can claim otherwise, no matter what you think about his coaching style.

God damn it.

How many ****ing times do we have to go over this?

You are making assumprtions based on only what you think, but everything we heard and read from day one that Hermna ****ing Edwards was hired said that the coaching staff was picked by Herman ****ing Edwards.

He interviewed each and every coach on the staff and shitcanned the ones he didn't want, and kept those that he did.
I'm sick of your dumb ass amaking the same unsubtantiated assertions.

Dumb****.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Each coach is free to put his own stamp on his team. DV was offensive minded and was able to build a great offense with the guys he picked up - Green, Roaf, Holmes, Kennison, Weigmann, etc.

Who did the great defensive guru, Herm Edwards, pick up to improve the defense? His two best players (Allen and DJ) were Vermeil picks.

Who told Herm to go with Brody Croyle as the face of the franchise? Who told him to dismantle a good special teams? Who told him to run LJ into the ground? If not for Vermeil's second greatest draft pick, Colquitt, Herm Edwards would have been lucky to win a single game the last two years.

Herm had three years of full drafts to do something and he crapped himself.

The difference is that Carl Peterson went out of his way to get Vermeil his guys. He traded draft picks for Trent Green and threw a shitload of money for him. He let Vermeil hire his own coordinators, including Al Saunders, who he brought in from St. Louis. Roaf was also traded for with draft picks. In that time, the Chiefs brought in Roaf, Green, Holmes, Wiegmann, Kennison and spent a fortune on McCleon, Barber, Holliday, Surtain, Kendrell Bell. Not to mention that they gladly re-signed Gonzalez, Shields, and Waters.

During the Herm era, Peterson didn't even try to bring top free agents in. He scraped from the bottom of the barrel to bring in McIntosh and Napoleon Harris. And he refused to extend Jared Allen's contract.

You have seriously got to be kidding me. Like I said, because of mismanagement from Carl Peterson, the Chiefs needed about 15 starters to make this team competitive. You really think that you can accomplish that with 3 drafts and a pennyless free agency?

[Otter]

Don't argue with an idiot. Eventually people won't be able to tell the difference.

[kstater]

Originally Posted by Bugeater

Yes, because playing a ****ing video game is just like being on the sideline during an NFL game.

Don't you know all you have to do is press the X button?