To the Herm haters.

[kcbubb]

I'm tired of all the blame going to Herm. Yes, Herm had his share of blunders but the amount of hate that he gets is ridiculous. The biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating the impact of Jared Allen. And I did too at the time. In 2007, the Chiefs almost had a top 10 defense despite their terrible offense. We know what happened in 2008. But we are quick to forget the defense of 2007. I'm not saying the Herm was a great coach, but he is not as bad as some here believe.

Just to irritate you, lets take a look at what might have been if Herm had stuck around.

-First the acquisition of Cassell never happens. Herm sticks with Thigpen and Gailey runs the system that worked well in the latter half of the season.

-The switch to the 3-4 never happens and the Chiefs continue to run a 4-3 defense.

-Most likely, no notable free agents are picked up.

-Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs.

-The draft rolls around and Herm takes the safe route as usual and picks the following players:

1. Aaron Curry
2. Everette Brown (Herm likes this pick bc of the desperate need for a pass rusher to replace Jared Allen who was lost in 07 and the success of another small DE Dwight Freeney with the Colts where his role model Tony Dungy coached.)
3. Antione Caldwell (Mal Moore leadership award winner is drafted here) Herm kinda player. And can play all line positions but primarily C or G.
4. Louis Murphy (Herm picks a wide out for the needed depth and Murphy provide some speed.)
5. Jasper Brinkley (Tough middle linebacker probably starts.)
6. Andrew Gardner (RT tackle pushes or replaces McIntosh)
7. Captain Munnerlyn (CB and returner)
7. Ricky Jean-Francois (depth at DT)
7. Ryan Succop K


And to top it off. After speaking with Tony Dungy about Michael Vick, who has been mentoring Vick, Herm trusts Dungy and decides to give Vick a shot at backing up Tyler Thigpen.


Would all of this happened... probably not, but it is interesting to think about what might have been if Herm and Carl would have stayed. Again, I don't think Herm is great and I definitely don't think Carl was good, but I do wonder what might have happened. I do like the draft above much better than our current one, and I do like that we still would have Tony G.

[Bwana]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

I'd really like for you to show me where Herm wanted to tear it down year one and was overruled by Carl. I want direct quotes here because I've never, ever heard that except for bullshit conspiracy theories. I don't think Carl wanted to tear it down, but I sure as hell don't think Herm did either.

Herman Edwards has NEVER built a football team on his own that was successful. Ever. He inherited Parcells and Al Groh's leftovers. He left the Jets in a mess just like he left the Chiefs.

What exactly was he building with the Chiefs? They were the worst second half team I have ever seen. He went through QB's like water. He never, ever had a functional defensive gameplan. The playoff game that he lucked into showed how truly stubborn of an idiot he is.

So the GM hired Herm's assistants? Is that what you are telling me? Herm wanted Gunther in NY before the 2004 season.

It just has to ****ing stop already. Herm is a massive failure, who was praised for his ability to build a defense because of his "Tampa connections" and this defense was pure dogshit with the players he acquired. In Herm's first ****ing game at Arrowhead, he decides to basically piss all over the see of red and wear white. It wasn't a hot day, there wasn't ridiculous humidity. He just changed for the sake of change.

If you are a Chiefs fan, and you defend that asshole or are sorry to see him go, please burn all your Chiefs shit and find a new team so we can have every single dark cloud away from this ****ing team and fanbase. Thank you.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Sorry, my internet connection sucks right now so this is the quote that I can quickly reference:
"There was reportedly a deep philosophical divide between former Chiefs GM and President Carl Peterson and coach Herm Edwards. The two got along at first, but Herm's desire to rebuild was met at every step with resistance from Peterson. Chairman Clark Hunt sided with Herm in the offseason, but his upcoming GM hire may still want his own coach in place. Edwards' future remains very up in the air, but another year would not surprise."

What else was he going to say? He was on the hook to pay Herm this upcoming season. He wasn't just going to come out and fire him immediately after the season without a GM. No owner does that.

Add on to the fact that Clark Hunt gave every vote of confidence to Herm Edwards, but fired Carl Peterson before the season even ended. He even tried to convince Pioli to consider keeping Herm. I think we all agree by now that Clark Hunt is good at what he does. I thought I also once read that Herm was so frustrated with Peterson that he started to voice his complaints directly to Hunt. The way Peterson's firing went down... it sounds like Hunt is very sympathetic to what Herm Edwards went through. But what does Clark Hunt know? I mean, he's only the owner.

Again, the order they were fired means jack shit. Herm was getting paid whether he was an employee of the Chiefs or working for ESPN so what was the downside of keeping him around until Pioli canned him?

It's not like Parcells and Groh gave him a whole lot to work with. And it leaves out the point that the GM of the Jets was Terry Bradway, who is a notorious ****-up and a student of the Carl Peterson school of hard knocks. Besides, if he left the Jets in such a horrible state of disrepair, then why did that team make the playoffs the next season when they got a healthy Pennington back

Are you really making the point that the 2006 Jets team was a playoff team? That was the easiest schedule in NFL history.

Again, I don't dispute that he was a horrible gameday coach. But in that statement, you're mixing in his personnel side from his gameday side. On the personnel side, he did a pretty decent job and a lot of NFL analysts seemed to think so too. Pretty remarkable, given that Peterson bled the team dry and gave Herm almost no money to play with. Out of the draft alone, Herm brought in Bowe, Albert, Leggett, Flowers, Charles, Cox, Dorsey, Page... arguably Carr, Pollard, Turk, and Tank. From the personnel side, I thought he did a pretty decent job, given how little he was allowed to work with.

You're giving him credit for Mike Cox? Really? I'm sure that Chan Gailey had nothing to do with that one considering he coached him at GT. Anyone with a pulse is taking Glenn Dorsey 5th overall. I'll give him credit for Dwayne Bowe, Brandon Flowers and Brendan Albert. Everyone else is laughable at best. You're going to praise his picking Charles? What did Charles ever do? Leggett had a few good games, but Brackenridge did too and he fizzled out. Turk and Tank are shit - pure shit. Pollard was massively overdrafted. Yeah, bringing in 3 really good players is enough to consistently wash Herm's balls like you love to do constantly.

Herman Edwards job was COACH. If you aren't going to argue that he was a terrible gameday coach, then why argue anything. It's like saying a mechanic is a terrible mechanic, but he sure knows how to pick tools to work with. If he knows how to pick tools to work with, then he should be GOOD at his job. Herm is shit. Pure and simple. He has a .422 winning percentage. He brought in McIntosh, Napoleon Harris, overdrafted Tamba Hali, Turk McBride, Bernard Pollard, Brodie Croyle.

Hiring on all fronts is done by the GM. The coach usually has input. There is no excuse whatsoever for Carl Peterson to not at least brought in outside candidates for interview. And Peterson has a loooooonnnngggg track record of doing that. Vermeil, Herm, Solari, Gun, and Gun again were all hired without interviewing a single candidate (except for one token minority candidate).

It's a collaborative process, but you are wrong that it's done exclusively by the GM. I've never known one HC that allows the GM to pick his coaching staff. Do you really think Pioli hired Pendergast on his own accord?

It has to stop that people exaggerate how bad Herm was. Herm was a flawed gameday coach, but he made some really good moves on the personnel side and it's clear to everyone but KC fans that he wasn't given the power to do what he wanted to do.

Really good moves? Where? He drafted Dwayne Bowe when he was the top player rated at a need position. Albert was another no-brainer, along with Dorsey. I'll give him credit for Flowers.

What did he want to do that wasn't done? Do you get dizzy from going in circles?

I never said I was sorry to see him go. But I am sorry that he had to go like this, with people blaming him for a lot of shit that he isn't to blame for. Joe Posnanski summed it up pretty well here, even if it's overly long-winded:
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2009...-win-the-game/

Yeah, I'm heartbroken that this puke lead us to 6 wins in 2 years and was fired. It's heartbreaking for every Herm ball-washer. I'm glad you are so easily brainwashed. Next you are going to tell me Gunther got a raw deal in 2000 as well.

I hate Carl Peterson with a passion. I hate Herm Edwards with a passion. You could have given Herman Edwards the 2008 NE Patriots and he would have found a way to lose with that team.

The Jets fans couldn't believe that the Chiefs would give a 4th rounder for him. It was like someone buying you land, and then building you a huge house on top of it.

My hope still stands that you can find a new team. Herm was a black eye to this organization and franchise, and with a new WINNING GM, and a coach who actually coordinated successful units (something Herm also never did), I'm done discussing him.

My heart is broken for Herm. He gets paid full salary this year to watch the games like I do. Thankfully, he will never, ever have another hand in impacting anything for my favorite team.

[DeezNutz]

I remember Herm's really good moves, like Hali, Pollard, McBride, and all the lower-level scrubs from last year's draft who have already been cut.

[Hammock Parties]

The only thing I don't agree with is Tank. I think he was a great pick and was our best defensive lineman last year. Pioli and Haley would not have slotted him as the starting nose tackle if he didn't have some ability.

[sportsman1]

Can we make a new rule that the word "Herm" is no longer allowed in thread titles? Quit living in the past!

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

What else was he going to say? He was on the hook to pay Herm this upcoming season. He wasn't just going to come out and fire him immediately after the season without a GM. No owner does that.

Clark Hunt really liked Herm Edwards. I'm not even going to argue this point. Look on the internet for the 1,000 blogs/articles on this subject.

Are you really making the point that the 2006 Jets team was a playoff team? That was the easiest schedule in NFL history.

Ha. You said they were horrible. No horrible team makes the playoffs, regardless of the schedule. Herm left the Jets an average team. And that is consistent with the idea that that average team got some good breaks that got them into the playoffs.


I was going to argue the rest of your post point for point, but it's pretty clear that you have some weird vendetta against the man. There's no credibility in a person that hates a man so much that he goes out of his way to blame him for everything bad, but then make excuses or credit someone else when things go well. Look, we can argue until we're blue in the face. But in his short career, he's brought 4 teams to the playoffs. And with teams that weren't outstanding talent-wise. You guys can all come up with excuses. But that track record is better than a lot of coaches in the league. He's an average coach, but not the incompetent shit that you for some weird reason are set out to make him.

And I root for the Chiefs. Same team you root for. **** you for telling me to root for someone else as if you're some kind of an ambassador for Chiefs fans.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Clark Hunt really liked Herm Edwards. I'm not even going to argue this point. Look on the internet for the 1,000 blogs/articles on this subject.


Ha. You said they were horrible. No horrible team makes the playoffs, regardless of the schedule. Herm left the Jets an average team. And that is consistent with the idea that that average team got some good breaks that got them into the playoffs.


I was going to argue the rest of your post point for point, but it's pretty clear that you have some weird vendetta against the man. There's no credibility in a person that hates a man so much that he goes out of his way to blame him for everything bad, but then make excuses or credit someone else when things go well. Look, we can argue until we're blue in the face. But in his short career, he's brought 4 teams to the playoffs. And with teams that weren't outstanding talent-wise. You guys can all come up with excuses. But that track record is better than a lot of coaches in the league. He's an average coach, but not the incompetent shit that you for some weird reason are set out to make him.

And I root for the Chiefs. Same team you root for. **** you for telling me to root for someone else as if you're some kind of an ambassador for Chiefs fans.

You're a ****ing idiot.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

You're a ****ing idiot.

Clark Hunt really liked Herm Edwards.
Herm Edwards took 4 teams to the playoffs, and those teams weren't loaded with talent.
Horrible coaches don't make the playoffs. Consistently.
Therefore, Herm Edwards is not horrible.

Feel free to argue against any of those points. That's what I said, summed up in a 5 second clip.

I love it when people resort to name-calling because they refuse to argue the points.

[Bwana]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Clark Hunt really liked Herm Edwards. I'm not even going to argue this point. Look on the internet for the 1,000 blogs/articles on this subject.


Ha. You said they were horrible. No horrible team makes the playoffs, regardless of the schedule. Herm left the Jets an average team. And that is consistent with the idea that that average team got some good breaks that got them into the playoffs.


I was going to argue the rest of your post point for point, but it's pretty clear that you have some weird vendetta against the man. There's no credibility in a person that hates a man so much that he goes out of his way to blame him for everything bad, but then make excuses or credit someone else when things go well. Look, we can argue until we're blue in the face. But in his short career, he's brought 4 teams to the playoffs. And with teams that weren't outstanding talent-wise. You guys can all come up with excuses. But that track record is better than a lot of coaches in the league. He's an average coach, but not the incompetent shit that you for some weird reason are set out to make him.

And I root for the Chiefs. Same team you root for. **** you for telling me to root for someone else as if you're some kind of an ambassador for Chiefs fans.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

[kstater]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Demonpenz, that you?

Originally Posted by kstater

No, sadly Chiefzilla has always been 2 inches from Herm's cock.

See what I mean?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Bwana

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Great argument

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Clark Hunt really liked Herm Edwards.
Herm Edwards took 4 teams to the playoffs, and those teams weren't loaded with talent.
Horrible coaches don't make the playoffs. Consistently.
Therefore, Herm Edwards is not horrible.

Feel free to argue against any of those points. That's what I said, summed up in a 5 second clip.

I love it when people resort to name-calling because they refuse to argue the points.

I've argued these points over and over with you.

It's like banging my head up aginst the wall.

He took one team that you might legitimately call his to the playoffs.

And two of the other three teams basically backed into the playoffs.

Horrible coaches who inherit other coaches rosters have made it to many playoffs.

Ever hear of George Siefert?

How about Rich Kotite?

And with the Chiefs and the Jets, he left those teams in far worse shape when he left them than when he inherited.

[Bwana]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Great argument

GREAT thread dipshit. You really seem to be in love with it and Herm.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by kstater

See what I mean?

I'm glad that the state of hatred on this board has now made thinking somebody is "average" a sign of a dick-sucking fest.

[kstater]

Herm is average? A coach with a .422 winning percentage is average?