NFL Draft AP: Barkley, Forcier no ordinary freshmen QBs - Page 2

**Tribal Warfare** · 09-16-2009, 07:03 PM

Barkley, Forcier no ordinary freshmen QBs

By RALPH D. RUSSO (AP)

NEW YORK — Matt Barkley and Tate Forcier are freshmen standouts but in college football today, you can hardly call them precocious.

A couple of cool, California teenagers leading two of college football's most prestigious programs, Michigan's Forcier and USC's Barkley are part of a generation of polished passers who are arriving on campus better prepared than ever to play.

Between private tutors, passing camps, more advanced high-school offenses (and defenses) and early college enrollment, Barkley, Forcier and other elite quarterback prospects are practically being engineered to play the position.

Make no mistake, while there are plenty of well-schooled quarterbacks being pumped into college football these days, what Barkley and Forcier have done is exceptional. It's just that after two straight sophomore Heisman Trophy winners, Tim Tebow and Sam Bradford, the idea of a freshman quarterback hauling off the big bronze statue one day doesn't seem so farfetched anymore.

The 19-year-old, blonde-haired Barkley has led No. 3 Southern California to a 2-0 start, including an 18-15 victory at Ohio State on Saturday in which he directed a brilliant game-winning drive late in the fourth quarter.

The recruiting experts pegged him as the top quarterback in his high school class and he has the look of a future high NFL draft pick: 6-foot-2, 230 pounds, strong and accurate arm — a great match for the Trojans' prostyle offense.

Forcier, also 19, has lifted spirits at Michigan following a miserable 2008 season. He engineered his own memorable comeback victory Saturday, throwing a touchdown pass with 11 seconds left to beat Notre Dame 38-34, and has the 25th-ranked Wolverines (2-0) looking like Big Ten contenders again.

Forcier was a blue-chip recruit coming out of high school, too, but is different model than Barkley. Undersized (6-1, 188) but multidimensional, his quickness and speed make him a perfect fit for the Wolverines' spread offense.

Their physical differences aside, both play with confidence that belies their youth.

"He was in it, talking, communicating," USC coach Pete Carroll said of Barkley's performance in hostile territory. "I've said that a number of times, but a lot of times kids don't communicate real well. He was fine. He's just like he always was, and is."

Forcier plays with a smile on his face and doesn't get down when he makes mistakes.

"His make up is suited perfectly for that position," Michigan coach Rich Rodriguez said.

Talent helps, but both have been raised to be exactly where they are.

Barkley went to Mater Dei High School, in Santa Ana, Calif., the powerhouse football school that produced USC Heisman Trophy winner Matt Leinart. He also studied under Steve Clarkson, one of the first and most famous personal quarterback tutors in the country.

Clarkson, a three-year starting quarterback at San Jose State in the early 1980s, has worked with Leinart, Ben Roethlisberger of the Pittsburgh Steelers and Notre Dame's Jimmy Clausen.

Forcier is from San Diego and playing quarterback is a family tradition — one older brother was a backup for Michigan, the other for UCLA.

He has been training with Marv Marinovich, father of former USC quarterback Todd Marinovich, since before he reached his teens. Home-schooled, he played at Scripps Ranch High School, running a spread offense.

Like most young talented quarterback prospects, Barkley and Forcier have spent their youths constantly honing their skills.

"These guys are playing quarterback year-round, they're clearly further along then they were in my day," UCLA coach and former quarterback Rick Neuheisel said.

Still, it's rare for teams to rely on freshmen quarterbacks. Only four other teams have given freshmen QBs significant playing times this season, and that counts Boston College's Dave Shinskie, a 25-year-old former minor league baseball player.

That number could go up this week, with Neuheisel considering playing freshman Richard Brehaut to replace an injured starter.

"To play a freshman quarterback, if you're going to have a good team or a chance to be successful, you're going to have to have a lot of good players around him," said former Tennessee coach Phillip Fulmer, who started Peyton Manning, Casey Clausen and Erik Ainge as freshmen and had winning seasons with all of them. "He can't be expected to carry the load. His job is to not lose the ball game."

So far so good for Barkley and Forcier, but that's not quite enough for Forcier. He wants to shoot down college football's conventional wisdom about freshmen QBs, the line that says the newbie is bound to screw up in a big spot and cost his team a game.

"I've been hearing that from everybody," he said. "That's motivation to push me and has made me want to prove everybody else wrong."

Mecca · 09-16-2009, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

So far the spread hasn't hurt kids transitioning from Florida to the NFL under Meyer, but it's still too early and the next few years will answer the questions.

It hurts QB's more than anything, he had one high profile selected QB, Alex Smith and he failed miserably.

Do I think all of Florida's player are going to fail at the next level, no but I do think they have greater learning curves to overcome.

**DaKCMan AP** · 09-16-2009, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

It hurts QB's more than anything, he had one high profile selected QB, Alex Smith and he failed miserably.

Do I think all of Florida's player are going to fail at the next level, no but I do think they have greater learning curves to overcome.

We'll see how Tebow does but I think the real story on Florida QB's under Meyer will come once John Brantley goes to the NFL. That kid has a NFL arm and will operate a Florida offense more tailored towards a NFL-esque spread offense.

Mecca · 09-16-2009, 07:57 PM

I don't really think Meyer is going to make their offense more NFL like..the guy is cocky. He thinks the spread ofense would work in the NFL, take this for example.

Meyer: NFL coaches afraid of spread offense

* 07:53 AM ET 09.10

Florida coach Urban Meyer has been asked for advice from at least four N.F.L. teams, including the New England Patriots. "I think it would have worked years ago," Meyer said. "No one has had enough -- I don't want to say courage -- no one has wanted to step across that line. Everyone runs the same offense in the N.F.L. A lot of those coaches are retreads. They get fired in Minnesota, they go to St. Louis. They get fired in St. Louis and go to San Diego. I guess what gets lost in the shuffle is your objective is to go win the game. If it's going to help you win the game, then you should run the spread."

New York Times

That's nice and all and you can have elements of the spread in your offense all teams do but you can't run that offense at the NFL level...

NFL teams are afraid of the spread the same way they were afraid of the wishbone in the 1970s.

It works great in college, where you have 100 players on the program, there's some depth on the bench, and there is a difference in quality of play from team to team. You try that in the pros with a 53-man roster and lose your starting QB, you're hung for the rest of the season.

And, at the risk of starting a Vick flame war, one of the problems that the Falcons faced (and that whoever gets Tebow will if they use him as a QB) is that you build your offense around the ability of one player. If that player gets hurt, you'd better have a backup that can run that same offense or, again, the team is screwed because the whole offense has to learn a new scheme mid-season.

I'd love to see him go to the NFL and try to make that work since he seems arrogant enough to try it...he'd come crawling back a few years later after the NFL humbled him just like Spurrier.

**DaKCMan AP** · 09-16-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I don't really think Meyer is going to make their offense more NFL like..the guy is cocky. He thinks the spread ofense would work in the NFL, take this for example.

Meyer: NFL coaches afraid of spread offense

* 07:53 AM ET 09.10

Florida coach Urban Meyer has been asked for advice from at least four N.F.L. teams, including the New England Patriots. "I think it would have worked years ago," Meyer said. "No one has had enough -- I don't want to say courage -- no one has wanted to step across that line. Everyone runs the same offense in the N.F.L. A lot of those coaches are retreads. They get fired in Minnesota, they go to St. Louis. They get fired in St. Louis and go to San Diego. I guess what gets lost in the shuffle is your objective is to go win the game. If it's going to help you win the game, then you should run the spread."

New York Times

That's nice and all and you can have elements of the spread in your offense all teams do but you can't run that offense at the NFL level...

NFL teams are afraid of the spread the same way they were afraid of the wishbone in the 1970s.

It works great in college, where you have 100 players on the program, there's some depth on the bench, and there is a difference in quality of play from team to team. You try that in the pros with a 53-man roster and lose your starting QB, you're hung for the rest of the season.

And, at the risk of starting a Vick flame war, one of the problems that the Falcons faced (and that whoever gets Tebow will if they use him as a QB) is that you build your offense around the ability of one player. If that player gets hurt, you'd better have a backup that can run that same offense or, again, the team is screwed because the whole offense has to learn a new scheme mid-season.

I'd love to see him go to the NFL and try to make that work since he seems arrogant enough to try it...he'd come crawling back a few years later after the NFL humbled him just like Spurrier.

I don't think he'll ever go to the NFL. He's a college coach, loves the college game, the pageantry and loves coaching college kids.

Brantley is very different from Tebow. Will Meyer start running an NFL offense? No. Will he run the spread option to the extent he does with Tebow? No. I think with Brantley at QB it will be closer to a spread offense like the Patriots run.

Mecca · 09-16-2009, 08:03 PM

Personally I'd never draft a spread QB, you're just asking for it to blow up in your face.

Param · 09-16-2009, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chagrin

Like I said, gimmicky - and you're spot on - Michigan doesn't need to recruit undersized, under-talented players. Their line is laughably small, and forcier was ranked #16 in the country - he doesn't have to run spread to be successful. I just hate it, and it's goofy watching that shit in Ann Arbor.

Look at their head coach.

**DaKCMan AP** · 09-16-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Personally I'd never draft a spread QB, you're just asking for it to blow up in your face.

Luckily for you, you'll never have to.

Param · 09-16-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

The reason I don't get why Michigan runs it is a team like that can get top notch players. The spread is for teams that don't get great recruits to help make up the difference...
.

That is just totally wrong.

Mecca · 09-16-2009, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Param

That is just totally wrong.

Then what exactly is the purpose of the spread?

It's not to spread out the defense to make the QB have easy reads and then attack the 3rd and 4th CB's on the field because even college powerhouses have a hard time going 4 deep at CB?

Param · 09-16-2009, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

the Eagles don't even have Maclin on the field because he doesn't know how to run their routes.

Yet, he goes 1st round and Crabtree went #10 overall.

Mecca · 09-16-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Param

Yet, he goes 1st round and Crabtree went #10 overall.

If it continues to happen those players are going to get strikes for not being ready.

Plenty of project players get drafted, but they may not be 1st round picks anymore. The difference in why DeSean Jackson can produce right away and Maclin can't is the colleges they went to.

Param · 09-16-2009, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Then what exactly is the purpose of the spread?

It's not to spread out the defense to make the QB have easy reads and then attack the 3rd and 4th CB's on the field because even college powerhouses have a hard time going 4 deep at CB?

Purpose or not, the top teams in the land are running it and it's effective.

Mecca · 09-16-2009, 08:20 PM

Great, I think it's ****ing up development for the next level but to each their own.

htismaqe · 09-16-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Great, I think it's ****ing up development for the next level but to each their own.

The next level is likely going to have to adapt as the talent pool starts to dry up. We're eventually going to see these types of base offenses in the NFL, instead of just seeing them as situational packages like they are now.

Mecca · 09-16-2009, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The next level is likely going to have to adapt as the talent pool starts to dry up. We're eventually going to see these types of base offenses in the NFL, instead of just seeing them as situational packages like they are now.

I disagree, I don't think teams will ever put their QB's in that position. Not to mention the league is still full of run the ball, play defense type of coaches.

09-16-2009, 07:03 PM
Tribal Warfare Man of Culture Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $-3007187	AP: Barkley, Forcier no ordinary freshmen QBs Barkley, Forcier no ordinary freshmen QBs By RALPH D. RUSSO (AP) NEW YORK — Matt Barkley and Tate Forcier are freshmen standouts but in college football today, you can hardly call them precocious. A couple of cool, California teenagers leading two of college football's most prestigious programs, Michigan's Forcier and USC's Barkley are part of a generation of polished passers who are arriving on campus better prepared than ever to play. Between private tutors, passing camps, more advanced high-school offenses (and defenses) and early college enrollment, Barkley, Forcier and other elite quarterback prospects are practically being engineered to play the position. Make no mistake, while there are plenty of well-schooled quarterbacks being pumped into college football these days, what Barkley and Forcier have done is exceptional. It's just that after two straight sophomore Heisman Trophy winners, Tim Tebow and Sam Bradford, the idea of a freshman quarterback hauling off the big bronze statue one day doesn't seem so farfetched anymore. The 19-year-old, blonde-haired Barkley has led No. 3 Southern California to a 2-0 start, including an 18-15 victory at Ohio State on Saturday in which he directed a brilliant game-winning drive late in the fourth quarter. The recruiting experts pegged him as the top quarterback in his high school class and he has the look of a future high NFL draft pick: 6-foot-2, 230 pounds, strong and accurate arm — a great match for the Trojans' prostyle offense. Forcier, also 19, has lifted spirits at Michigan following a miserable 2008 season. He engineered his own memorable comeback victory Saturday, throwing a touchdown pass with 11 seconds left to beat Notre Dame 38-34, and has the 25th-ranked Wolverines (2-0) looking like Big Ten contenders again. Forcier was a blue-chip recruit coming out of high school, too, but is different model than Barkley. Undersized (6-1, 188) but multidimensional, his quickness and speed make him a perfect fit for the Wolverines' spread offense. Their physical differences aside, both play with confidence that belies their youth. "He was in it, talking, communicating," USC coach Pete Carroll said of Barkley's performance in hostile territory. "I've said that a number of times, but a lot of times kids don't communicate real well. He was fine. He's just like he always was, and is." Forcier plays with a smile on his face and doesn't get down when he makes mistakes. "His make up is suited perfectly for that position," Michigan coach Rich Rodriguez said. Talent helps, but both have been raised to be exactly where they are. Barkley went to Mater Dei High School, in Santa Ana, Calif., the powerhouse football school that produced USC Heisman Trophy winner Matt Leinart. He also studied under Steve Clarkson, one of the first and most famous personal quarterback tutors in the country. Clarkson, a three-year starting quarterback at San Jose State in the early 1980s, has worked with Leinart, Ben Roethlisberger of the Pittsburgh Steelers and Notre Dame's Jimmy Clausen. Forcier is from San Diego and playing quarterback is a family tradition — one older brother was a backup for Michigan, the other for UCLA. He has been training with Marv Marinovich, father of former USC quarterback Todd Marinovich, since before he reached his teens. Home-schooled, he played at Scripps Ranch High School, running a spread offense. Like most young talented quarterback prospects, Barkley and Forcier have spent their youths constantly honing their skills. "These guys are playing quarterback year-round, they're clearly further along then they were in my day," UCLA coach and former quarterback Rick Neuheisel said. Still, it's rare for teams to rely on freshmen quarterbacks. Only four other teams have given freshmen QBs significant playing times this season, and that counts Boston College's Dave Shinskie, a 25-year-old former minor league baseball player. That number could go up this week, with Neuheisel considering playing freshman Richard Brehaut to replace an injured starter. "To play a freshman quarterback, if you're going to have a good team or a chance to be successful, you're going to have to have a lot of good players around him," said former Tennessee coach Phillip Fulmer, who started Peyton Manning, Casey Clausen and Erik Ainge as freshmen and had winning seasons with all of them. "He can't be expected to carry the load. His job is to not lose the ball game." So far so good for Barkley and Forcier, but that's not quite enough for Forcier. He wants to shoot down college football's conventional wisdom about freshmen QBs, the line that says the newbie is bound to screw up in a big spot and cost his team a game. "I've been hearing that from everybody," he said. "That's motivation to push me and has made me want to prove everybody else wrong."
Posts: 43,454

09-16-2009, 07:57 PM	#18
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-722950	I don't really think Meyer is going to make their offense more NFL like..the guy is cocky. He thinks the spread ofense would work in the NFL, take this for example. Meyer: NFL coaches afraid of spread offense * 07:53 AM ET 09.10 Florida coach Urban Meyer has been asked for advice from at least four N.F.L. teams, including the New England Patriots. "I think it would have worked years ago," Meyer said. "No one has had enough -- I don't want to say courage -- no one has wanted to step across that line. Everyone runs the same offense in the N.F.L. A lot of those coaches are retreads. They get fired in Minnesota, they go to St. Louis. They get fired in St. Louis and go to San Diego. I guess what gets lost in the shuffle is your objective is to go win the game. If it's going to help you win the game, then you should run the spread." New York Times That's nice and all and you can have elements of the spread in your offense all teams do but you can't run that offense at the NFL level... NFL teams are afraid of the spread the same way they were afraid of the wishbone in the 1970s. It works great in college, where you have 100 players on the program, there's some depth on the bench, and there is a difference in quality of play from team to team. You try that in the pros with a 53-man roster and lose your starting QB, you're hung for the rest of the season. And, at the risk of starting a Vick flame war, one of the problems that the Falcons faced (and that whoever gets Tebow will if they use him as a QB) is that you build your offense around the ability of one player. If that player gets hurt, you'd better have a backup that can run that same offense or, again, the team is screwed because the whole offense has to learn a new scheme mid-season. I'd love to see him go to the NFL and try to make that work since he seems arrogant enough to try it...he'd come crawling back a few years later after the NFL humbled him just like Spurrier.
Posts: 115,380

09-16-2009, 08:03 PM	#20
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-722950	Personally I'd never draft a spread QB, you're just asking for it to blow up in your face.
Posts: 115,380

09-16-2009, 08:20 PM	#28
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-722950	Great, I think it's ****ing up development for the next level but to each their own.
Posts: 115,380