Chiefs At the Quarter Mark: Better or Worse? - Page 9

ChiefsCountry · 10-06-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It's NOT meaningless.

99% of the people here thought this franchise was going the wrong direction under Herm, even though he had drafted young players and was working to overhaul the roster.

In the past two years alone, he drafted a stud WR, two young defensive end/tackles (Turk & Tank), a franchise left tackle, a stud DB in Flowers (and a damn good prospect in Carr), a supposed run stuffing DT in Dorsey and more.

Half those guys were sent packing and the rest were converted to a defense in which they weren't drafted to play. What Pioli's done is completely erase the past two drafts - threw them out the window.

Bowe's taken a step backwards, as has Albert. Pollard's gone. Turk's gone. Tank's a part-time player. Dorsey's playing out of position.

So, now that we're on this path, you'd think we'd be improved, right? WRONG. We're worse across the board. In throwing players in the trash in order to convert to a completely different defense, Pioli set the Chiefs back at least one year if not two. And he did nothing to compliment this team in free-agency.

In my opinion, it's an absolutely valid way to evaluate and quantify progress.

And so far, there's been NONE.

It's been all for naught.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

If I'm Clark Hunt interviewing Scott Pioli and Pioli tells me "Hey, my philosophy on defense is the 3-4. So the first order of business is to dump all of your high draft picks from the past two years in order to implement my defense", I say "Thanks for you time" and I'm hiring someone else.

It was absolutely FOOLISH to spend THREE of the top draft picks in 2008 & 2009 on FIVE TECH PLAYERS. The Chiefs should have drafted Sanchez, Mauluga, offensive lineman and skill players in this past draft.

Instead, we're ****ED for at least two more years because the amount of holes on both defense and offense cannot be filled with even adequate players in the draft and free agency.

Tom Dimitroff got that part right.

Scott Pioli did not.

Bullshit. Bull-****ING-Shit.

The last three years DID NOT have to be meaning less. The Chiefs made the right decisions in the draft. A pass rushing defensive end opposite Jared Allen. A stud WR to help in the passing game. Two 4-3 DT/DE's. A franchise LT, a college super-stud DT, a stud CB, a very good CB (Carr), etc.

Pioli is the guy that said "**** this. We're going 3-4" and basically negated the past few years. Hali can't play OLB in a 3-4. Dorsey's not a 5 Tech. Brandon Albert has taken a HUGE step backwards. Dwayne Bowe looks like ****ing Derrick Alexander out there. Flowers and Carr are fine but BFD? Tyson Jackson should have NEVER been drafted with the #3 overall pick.

Pioli IGNORED this shit offensive line in free-agency and the draft and he continues to ignore it.

I'm not even TALKING about Herm or Peterson: This season's failures lie directly in the lap of one man: Scott Pioli.

PERIOD.

chiefzilla1501 · 10-06-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

That happens all the time all over the NFL not just in KC.. Many times a new GM and HC come in and want their players, team, etc.....

Yes the last 3 years were all for naught. We knew as they were happening any respectable GM who comes in is going to clean house and start over...

Its sucks, its going to take some time, but if we can endure 3 years of Herm, then we can endure Pioli and Haley finally trying to build a championship team in KC, first time in a long time.

If Herm Edwards didn't insist on the rebuild, we'd be two years behind schedule. Whether you agree or not about the talent he brought in, you can't deny that he made a very bold move to demand that he take a wrecking ball and rebuild from scratch.

Herm knew he'd end up losing a lot of games in 2008. He could've easily told Peterson to spend a bunch of money to make the team a fringe playoff contender, but he insisted that he do it the right way. Much as people hate Herm, he fell on his sword for the good of the franchise.

You think Pioli had a hard time getting rid of Herm guys. Imagine how much tougher it would have been if we had a bunch of average, cap-eating free agents on our roster right now. At least when Pioli cut Herm's young guys, they were free to cut.

Reerun_KC · 10-06-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If Herm Edwards didn't insist on the rebuild, we'd be two years behind schedule. Whether you agree or not about the talent he brought in, you can't deny that he made a very bold move to demand that he take a wrecking ball and rebuild from scratch.

Herm knew he'd end up losing a lot of games in 2008. He could've easily told Peterson to spend a bunch of money to make the team a fringe playoff contender, but he insisted that he do it the right way. Much as people hate Herm, he fell on his sword for the good of the franchise.

You think Pioli had a hard time getting rid of Herm guys. Imagine how much tougher it would have been if we had a bunch of average, cap-eating free agents on our roster right now. At least when Pioli cut Herm's young guys, they were free to cut.

Fair enough, I am all for the rebuild from scratch, but not with Herm within 1000 miles of KC...

Glad he feel on a sword, he sucked, plain and simple....

TEX · 10-06-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If Herm Edwards didn't insist on the rebuild, we'd be two years behind schedule. Whether you agree or not about the talent he brought in, you can't deny that he made a very bold move to demand that he take a wrecking ball and rebuild from scratch.

Herm knew he'd end up losing a lot of games in 2008. He could've easily told Peterson to spend a bunch of money to make the team a fringe playoff contender, but he insisted that he do it the right way. Much as people hate Herm, he fell on his sword for the good of the franchise.

You think Pioli had a hard time getting rid of Herm guys. Imagine how much tougher it would have been if we had a bunch of average, cap-eating free agents on our roster right now. At least when Pioli cut Herm's young guys, they were free to cut.

IMO, Herm is a master manipulator who gained Clark's ear with the whole rebuild thing. He hoped that it would "buy" him more time - plain and simple. I don't give that clown any credit for doing anything for the "good" of the franchise. It was more about his personal gain. Problem is his plan backfired when Carl stepped down. Herm was / is more shrewd than anything else.

Raptor · 10-06-2009, 08:18 PM

[QUOTE=chiefzilla1501;6146196]Much as people hate Herm, he fell on his sword for the good of the franchise.

/QUOTE]

I'm not a Herm Lover or hater, but I agree with this statement. It did take some guts to do what he did and he ended up paying a heavy price for it.

Reerun_KC · 10-06-2009, 12:05 PM

Dane, it just goes to show us as fans, that this franchise has never planned for the future.

Lets hope now that we have a new GM, we are planning for the future. Regardless of what has happened in the darkest of Chiefs years, we might be working towards a goal..

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Dane, it just goes to show us as fans, that this franchise has never planned for the future.

And that continues to this day.

Instead of drafting a young QB, linebackers and offensive lineman, which were positions of dire need, they instead traded for a 27 year-old that played in 15 games in 7 years, signed a 33 year old POS guard and signed a couple of scrubs and a couple of statues to play linebacker.

No foresight, no future, no forward thinking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Lets hope now that we have a new GM, we are planning for the future. Regardless of what has happened in the darkest of Chiefs years, we might be working towards a goal..

I don't see it.

I just don't see it.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-06-2009, 02:15 PM

Herm was a terrible game day coach, and too much of a slackass in practice. But he had the right idea on how to build a team.

I really wish that we could have used Herm's approach to team building with DV's practice habits, and had a decent talent evaluator with a long term plan

Considering we were deficient in two of the three phases for the last 20 years, with no planning for the future, it's no ****ing doubt that we are as bad as we are.

Gun was awful at all three and had no foresight
Vermeil was a decent game day coach, a great practice coach, and terrible at talent, and he was shortsighted
Marty was a mediocre game day coach (awful in the clutch), one of the best practice coaches of all time, and a poor evaluator of talent with middling foresight.
Herm was a terrible gameday coach, a terrible practice coach, and a mediocre talent evaluator with great foresight.

ThunderChief · 10-06-2009, 02:42 PM

Trust your eyes. Trust you instincts. Really....what the HELL do you think???

**the Talking Can** · 10-06-2009, 02:53 PM

now we're pro-herm....anybody with a brain knew exactly what Herm was, and what he'd do in KC...he was Carl's cronie and he simply continued our mediocrity until it literally imploded...he was a failure anyone could see coming from a mile away, and most here did actually...

this board is in a state of hysteria unlike anything I've ever seen....

like Glenn Beck eating acid and walking through a hall of mirrors while wearing an obama mask hysterics...

ChiefsCountry · 10-06-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

now we're pro-herm....anybody with a brain knew exactly what Herm was, and what he'd do in KC...he was Carl's cronie and he simply continued our mediocrity until it literally imploded...he was a failure anyone could see coming from a mile away, and most here did actually...

Herm had the right idea to build the roster - his problem was his coaching.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Herm had the right idea to build the roster - his problem was his coaching.

Exactly.

If Herm had been allowed to begin the rebuilding process in 2006 or 2007, do I think he'd be the head coach today?

No.

But, for the first time in nearly 40 years, someone inside this organization had it right.

Build your team through the draft.

Period.

chiefzilla1501 · 10-06-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Exactly.

If Herm had been allowed to begin the rebuilding process in 2006 or 2007, do I think he'd be the head coach today?

No.

But, for the first time in nearly 40 years, someone inside this organization had it right.

Build your team through the draft.

Period.

FINALLY.

I have taken so much shit with this same exact position. A LOT of shit.

milkman · 10-06-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

FINALLY.

I have taken so much shit with this same exact position. A LOT of shit.

No, you took shit because of your position that he should have been retained beyond last season because he had just started the rebuild.

Hell, I agree that he finally did what needed to be done, but he's a terrible ****ing coach, and there's no way in hell that I wanted him here from the start, much less another year or two.

Let's rebuild with a coach who actually has a chance to grow with the team.

Fish · 10-06-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Herm had the right idea to build the roster - his problem was his coaching.

10-06-2009, 08:18 PM	#5
Raptor Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Casino cash: $10004900	[QUOTE=chiefzilla1501;6146196]Much as people hate Herm, he fell on his sword for the good of the franchise. /QUOTE] I'm not a Herm Lover or hater, but I agree with this statement. It did take some guts to do what he did and he ended up paying a heavy price for it.
Posts: 71

10-06-2009, 12:05 PM	#6
Reerun_KC Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7231160	Dane, it just goes to show us as fans, that this franchise has never planned for the future. Lets hope now that we have a new GM, we are planning for the future. Regardless of what has happened in the darkest of Chiefs years, we might be working towards a goal..
Posts: 1,529

10-06-2009, 02:15 PM	#8
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	Herm was a terrible game day coach, and too much of a slackass in practice. But he had the right idea on how to build a team. I really wish that we could have used Herm's approach to team building with DV's practice habits, and had a decent talent evaluator with a long term plan Considering we were deficient in two of the three phases for the last 20 years, with no planning for the future, it's no ****ing doubt that we are as bad as we are. Gun was awful at all three and had no foresight Vermeil was a decent game day coach, a great practice coach, and terrible at talent, and he was shortsighted Marty was a mediocre game day coach (awful in the clutch), one of the best practice coaches of all time, and a poor evaluator of talent with middling foresight. Herm was a terrible gameday coach, a terrible practice coach, and a mediocre talent evaluator with great foresight. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083

10-06-2009, 02:42 PM	#9
ThunderChief Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: N Florida Casino cash: $10004900	Trust your eyes. Trust you instincts. Really....what the HELL do you think???
Posts: 70

10-06-2009, 02:53 PM	#10
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $9072208	now we're pro-herm....anybody with a brain knew exactly what Herm was, and what he'd do in KC...he was Carl's cronie and he simply continued our mediocrity until it literally imploded...he was a failure anyone could see coming from a mile away, and most here did actually... this board is in a state of hysteria unlike anything I've ever seen.... like Glenn Beck eating acid and walking through a hall of mirrors while wearing an obama mask hysterics... __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
Posts: 51,585