Chiefs At the Quarter Mark: Better or Worse? - Page 10

**OnTheWarpath15** · 05:47 PM

After the Haley hire, you couldn't throw a stick through this place without hitting someone that made the following comment:

"We'll be a better team based on coaching alone," or, "we'll win X amount of games due to coaching alone."

Yes, it's only been 4 games, and this is NOT a call for Haley's head - but is deserved criticism of the way he's prepared this team over the first 4 games of the regular season.

Also, IN NO WAY is the following an endorsement of Herman Edwards. What it is, however, is a giant red flag - this team - of which 60% has been handpicked by Pioli and Haley - is actually worse in almost all statistical categories when compared to the 2008 team after 4 games - which many here claimed were the darkest days of last season. We'll call it, B.S. - or, Before Spread.

Offensively (bolded number is 2009 totals):

1st downs: (63) (62)

3rd down conversions: (25/62 - 40%) (9/51 - 18%)

Total yards: (1145) (986)

Rushing yards: (554) (406)

Passing yards: (591) (580)

Sacks Allowed: (12) (13)

Penalties/Yardage: (10/109) 29/230

Scoring: (16.25 PPG) (16 PPG)

Not a single category in which we've improved over 2008, which happened to include going through 3 QB's - playing the 3rd stringer in 2 of the 4.

Defensively:

1st downs allowed: (74) (85)

3rd down conversions against: (25/54 - 46%) (25/58 - 43%)

Total yards allowed: (1517) (1516)

Rushing yards allowed: (706) (514)

Passing yards allowed: (811) (1002)

Sacks: (3) (5)

Points allowed: (24.25 PPG) (28 PPG)

Turnover margin: (+2) (Even)

Yea! 2 more sacks! And nice to see the 192 yard improvement from the rush defense, only to see 191 of it be given back up by the pass defense.

The 2008 team was apparently so bad that management felt the need to purge 30 players, yet is playing worse with a roster that is 60% their handpicked players?

What message are you trying to send, Todd? It seems like it changes on a weekly ****ing basis.

As someone who predicted a 3 win season, the losses aren't surprising me.

The way we are losing, after hearing the phrase, "we're going to be a big, strong, fast, smart, tough, disciplined football team" IS surprising me.

There is no improvement over the "Dark Ages" of last season in ANY of those areas. And there's no excuse for it, especially the lack of discipline. Make 'em run some more, Todd - it seems to be working...

Enough excuses - enough with the "messages" - enough petty bullshit sitting players - time to see some ****ing improvement. Not necessarily wins.

IMPROVEMENT.

Hammock Parties · 10-06-2009, 09:07 AM

Here's some improvement that the thread starter didn't recognize.

Quote:

KC leads the league in kickoff coverage (17.7 avg.), punt coverage (2.5 avg) and net punting average (44.5). Nice work, special teams.

Reerun_KC · 10-06-2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Haley and Pioli so far, suck ass. If they continue down this path of destroying the roster, this team will NEVER improve.

So you want them fired?

Who are your replacements?

And please keep your credibilty, dont come with that weak ass Cowher shit...

**OnTheWarpath15** · 10-06-2009, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Here's some improvement that the thread starter didn't recognize.

Because I don't have access to those stats.

Link?

If true, great.

However, I'd say that has more to do with the guys kicking than the coverage unit, but I've been really pleased with Succop so far. Definitely one of the rare bright spots this season.

Chiefnj2 · 10-06-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

How does Percy Harvin sound? Mark Sanchez? Jeremy Maclin? Knowshon Moreno? Hakeem Nicks? Hell, even Vontae Davis?

.

You would have used the #3 pick in the draft on Harvin, Maclin, Moreno, Nicks or Davis?

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

So you want them fired?

Who are your replacements?

And please keep your credibilty, dont come with that weak ass Cowher shit...

No, where did I say that I want them fired?

I said that if they continue down this path of poor personnel evaluation and poor coaching, this team will never improve.

Hopefully, they'll learn on the job. But to date, I'm extremely unhappy with the performance of both, especially considering that we were all expecting so much more.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

You would have used the #3 pick in the draft on Harvin, Maclin, Moreno, Nicks or Davis?

Over Jackson? Absolutely.

Maybe it doesn't meet the mythical "value chart".

But god****ingdammit, this team needs playmakers at every skill position.

If you're going to go off the chart, as did Pioli, get me a real impact player.

I said it on draft day. Jackson was a HUGE mistake at #3. ****ing sign Olshansky or Canty to be your DE and grab an impact player at #3.

A REAL game-changer.

Sure-Oz · 10-06-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Over Jackson? Absolutely.

Maybe it doesn't meet the mythical "value chart".

But god****ingdammit, this team needs playmakers at every skill position.

If you're going to go off the chart, as did Pioli, get me a real impact player.

I said it on draft day. Jackson was a HUGE mistake at #3. ****ing sign Olshansky or Canty to be your DE and grab an impact player at #3.

A REAL game-changer.

Jackson is definetly boring so far, eric hicks boring....hope he becomes a seymour but im still hoping dorsey becomes a sapp

**OnTheWarpath15** · 10-06-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz

Jackson is definetly boring so far, eric hicks boring....hope he becomes a seymour but im still hoping dorsey becomes a sapp

If he does, it will be for someone else, as we're not using him that way.

Sure-Oz · 10-06-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

If he does, it will be for someone else, as we're not using him that way.

It sucks he has no value at all either to trade

**ChiTown** · 10-06-2009, 09:49 AM

This is fugging worthless to compare. Seriously, there are some many variables in play, it's meaningless.

Mr_Tomahawk · 10-06-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

The roster at the start of last year was overhauled nearly as much as the roster this year.

That team was not 3 years in the making.

...sure, the roster was overhauled nearly as much.

We were young, moved some guys around...but the fact that we are implementing new schemes under a new coaching staff...regime...makes this Herm's 3rd year vs. Haley's 1st year a bit more skewed in comparison IMO.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiTown

This is fugging worthless to compare. Seriously, there are some many variables in play, it's meaningless.

It's NOT meaningless.

99% of the people here thought this franchise was going the wrong direction under Herm, even though he had drafted young players and was working to overhaul the roster.

In the past two years alone, he drafted a stud WR, two young defensive end/tackles (Turk & Tank), a franchise left tackle, a stud DB in Flowers (and a damn good prospect in Carr), a supposed run stuffing DT in Dorsey and more.

Half those guys were sent packing and the rest were converted to a defense in which they weren't drafted to play. What Pioli's done is completely erase the past two drafts - threw them out the window.

Bowe's taken a step backwards, as has Albert. Pollard's gone. Turk's gone. Tank's a part-time player. Dorsey's playing out of position.

So, now that we're on this path, you'd think we'd be improved, right? WRONG. We're worse across the board. In throwing players in the trash in order to convert to a completely different defense, Pioli set the Chiefs back at least one year if not two. And he did nothing to compliment this team in free-agency.

In my opinion, it's an absolutely valid way to evaluate and quantify progress.

And so far, there's been NONE.

It's been all for naught.

Reerun_KC · 10-06-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Over Jackson? Absolutely.

Maybe it doesn't meet the mythical "value chart".

But god****ingdammit, this team needs playmakers at every skill position.

If you're going to go off the chart, as did Pioli, get me a real impact player.

I said it on draft day. Jackson was a HUGE mistake at #3. ****ing sign Olshansky or Canty to be your DE and grab an impact player at #3.

A REAL game-changer.

This you cant argue with... We NEED impact players and NEED them badly....

Reerun_KC · 10-06-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It's NOT meaningless.

99% of the people here thought this franchise was going the wrong direction under Herm, even though he had drafted young players and was working to overhaul the roster.

In the past two years alone, he drafted a stud WR, two young defensive end/tackles (Turk & Tank), a franchise left tackle, a stud DB in Flowers (and a damn good prospect in Carr), a supposed run stuffing DT in Dorsey and more.

Half those guys were sent packing and the rest were converted to a defense in which they weren't drafted to play. What Pioli's done is completely erase the past two drafts - threw them out the window.

Bowe's taken a step backwards, as has Albert. Pollard's gone. Turk's gone. Tank's a part-time player. Dorsey's playing out of position.

So, now that we're on this path, you'd think we'd be improved, right? WRONG. We're worse across the board. In throwing players in the trash in order to convert to a completely different defense, Pioli set the Chiefs back at least one year if not two. And he did nothing to compliment this team in free-agency.

In my opinion, it's an absolutely valid way to evaluate and quantify progress.

And so far, there's been NONE.

It's been all for naught.

That happens all the time all over the NFL not just in KC.. Many times a new GM and HC come in and want their players, team, etc.....

Yes the last 3 years were all for naught. We knew as they were happening any respectable GM who comes in is going to clean house and start over...

Its sucks, its going to take some time, but if we can endure 3 years of Herm, then we can endure Pioli and Haley finally trying to build a championship team in KC, first time in a long time.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

That happens all the time all over the NFL not just in KC.. Many times a new GM and HC come in and want their players, team, etc.....

If I'm Clark Hunt interviewing Scott Pioli and Pioli tells me "Hey, my philosophy on defense is the 3-4. So the first order of business is to dump all of your high draft picks from the past two years in order to implement my defense", I say "Thanks for you time" and I'm hiring someone else.

It was absolutely FOOLISH to spend THREE of the top draft picks in 2008 & 2009 on FIVE TECH PLAYERS. The Chiefs should have drafted Sanchez, Mauluga, offensive lineman and skill players in this past draft.

Instead, we're ****ED for at least two more years because the amount of holes on both defense and offense cannot be filled with even adequate players in the draft and free agency.

Tom Dimitroff got that part right.

Scott Pioli did not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Yes the last 3 years were all for naught. We knew as they were happening any respectable GM who comes in is going to clean house and start over...

Bullshit. Bull-****ING-Shit.

The last three years DID NOT have to be meaning less. The Chiefs made the right decisions in the draft. A pass rushing defensive end opposite Jared Allen. A stud WR to help in the passing game. Two 4-3 DT/DE's. A franchise LT, a college super-stud DT, a stud CB, a very good CB (Carr), etc.

Pioli is the guy that said "**** this. We're going 3-4" and basically negated the past few years. Hali can't play OLB in a 3-4. Dorsey's not a 5 Tech. Brandon Albert has taken a HUGE step backwards. Dwayne Bowe looks like ****ing Derrick Alexander out there. Flowers and Carr are fine but BFD? Tyson Jackson should have NEVER been drafted with the #3 overall pick.

Pioli IGNORED this shit offensive line in free-agency and the draft and he continues to ignore it.

I'm not even TALKING about Herm or Peterson: This season's failures lie directly in the lap of one man: Scott Pioli.

PERIOD.

10-05-2009, 01:50 PM
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2051115	At the Quarter Mark: Better or Worse? After the Haley hire, you couldn't throw a stick through this place without hitting someone that made the following comment: "We'll be a better team based on coaching alone," or, "we'll win X amount of games due to coaching alone." Yes, it's only been 4 games, and this is NOT a call for Haley's head - but is deserved criticism of the way he's prepared this team over the first 4 games of the regular season. Also, IN NO WAY is the following an endorsement of Herman Edwards. What it is, however, is a giant red flag - this team - of which 60% has been handpicked by Pioli and Haley - is actually worse in almost all statistical categories when compared to the 2008 team after 4 games - which many here claimed were the darkest days of last season. We'll call it, B.S. - or, Before Spread. Offensively (bolded number is 2009 totals): 1st downs: (63) (62) 3rd down conversions: (25/62 - 40%) (9/51 - 18%) Total yards: (1145) (986) Rushing yards: (554) (406) Passing yards: (591) (580) Sacks Allowed: (12) (13) Penalties/Yardage: (10/109) 29/230 Scoring: (16.25 PPG) (16 PPG) Not a single category in which we've improved over 2008, which happened to include going through 3 QB's - playing the 3rd stringer in 2 of the 4. Defensively: 1st downs allowed: (74) (85) 3rd down conversions against: (25/54 - 46%) (25/58 - 43%) Total yards allowed: (1517) (1516) Rushing yards allowed: (706) (514) Passing yards allowed: (811) (1002) Sacks: (3) (5) Points allowed: (24.25 PPG) (28 PPG) Turnover margin: (+2) (Even) Yea! 2 more sacks! And nice to see the 192 yard improvement from the rush defense, only to see 191 of it be given back up by the pass defense. The 2008 team was apparently so bad that management felt the need to purge 30 players, yet is playing worse with a roster that is 60% their handpicked players? What message are you trying to send, Todd? It seems like it changes on a weekly **ing basis. As someone who predicted a 3 win season, the losses aren't surprising me. The way we are losing, after hearing the phrase, "we're going to be a big, strong, fast, smart, tough, disciplined football team" IS surprising me. There is no improvement over the "Dark Ages" of last season in ANY of those areas. And there's no excuse for it, especially the lack of discipline. Make 'em run some more, Todd - it seems to be working... Enough excuses - enough with the "messages" - enough petty bullshit sitting players - time to see some *ing improvement. Not necessarily wins. IMPROVEMENT. Last edited by OnTheWarpath15; 10-05-2009 at 05:47 PM..*
Posts: 60,758

10-06-2009, 09:49 AM	#145
ChiTown Stroking to the SB Champs! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Flatlands of Kansas Casino cash: $-571038	This is fugging worthless to compare. Seriously, there are some many variables in play, it's meaningless.
Posts: 40,929