Chiefs At the Quarter Mark: Better or Worse? - Page 4

**OnTheWarpath15** · 05:47 PM

After the Haley hire, you couldn't throw a stick through this place without hitting someone that made the following comment:

"We'll be a better team based on coaching alone," or, "we'll win X amount of games due to coaching alone."

Yes, it's only been 4 games, and this is NOT a call for Haley's head - but is deserved criticism of the way he's prepared this team over the first 4 games of the regular season.

Also, IN NO WAY is the following an endorsement of Herman Edwards. What it is, however, is a giant red flag - this team - of which 60% has been handpicked by Pioli and Haley - is actually worse in almost all statistical categories when compared to the 2008 team after 4 games - which many here claimed were the darkest days of last season. We'll call it, B.S. - or, Before Spread.

Offensively (bolded number is 2009 totals):

1st downs: (63) (62)

3rd down conversions: (25/62 - 40%) (9/51 - 18%)

Total yards: (1145) (986)

Rushing yards: (554) (406)

Passing yards: (591) (580)

Sacks Allowed: (12) (13)

Penalties/Yardage: (10/109) 29/230

Scoring: (16.25 PPG) (16 PPG)

Not a single category in which we've improved over 2008, which happened to include going through 3 QB's - playing the 3rd stringer in 2 of the 4.

Defensively:

1st downs allowed: (74) (85)

3rd down conversions against: (25/54 - 46%) (25/58 - 43%)

Total yards allowed: (1517) (1516)

Rushing yards allowed: (706) (514)

Passing yards allowed: (811) (1002)

Sacks: (3) (5)

Points allowed: (24.25 PPG) (28 PPG)

Turnover margin: (+2) (Even)

Yea! 2 more sacks! And nice to see the 192 yard improvement from the rush defense, only to see 191 of it be given back up by the pass defense.

The 2008 team was apparently so bad that management felt the need to purge 30 players, yet is playing worse with a roster that is 60% their handpicked players?

What message are you trying to send, Todd? It seems like it changes on a weekly ****ing basis.

As someone who predicted a 3 win season, the losses aren't surprising me.

The way we are losing, after hearing the phrase, "we're going to be a big, strong, fast, smart, tough, disciplined football team" IS surprising me.

There is no improvement over the "Dark Ages" of last season in ANY of those areas. And there's no excuse for it, especially the lack of discipline. Make 'em run some more, Todd - it seems to be working...

Enough excuses - enough with the "messages" - enough petty bullshit sitting players - time to see some ****ing improvement. Not necessarily wins.

IMPROVEMENT.

raybec 4 · 10-05-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I had a minor meltdown, check that, I MELTED THE **** DOWN last night when I heard the Donko ****s beat the Cowgirls. IIRC, I was talking to Reerun, but seriously. Their defense was on par with ours last year, they spend much fewer picks than we do, and they're the 4th best Defense currently? ****ing how? Do they even have a nose tackle? WTF?

The only thing I can think of is that Dumerville provides enough of a passrush to mask some of their holes (I recognize they played Cleveland, which helps them out).

Offensively, I thought they would be average. A good OL and WR corps with a non-reeruned QB will get you average.

I'm surprised as hell about their D though. I just don't ****ing get it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mike Nolan runs one hell of a D. Clancy Pederast does not.

Halfcan · 10-05-2009, 03:20 PM

Sorry but Haley has been the worst coach I have ever seen-if he is next year I would be surprised.

Chiefnj2 · 10-05-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raybec 4

Mike Nolan runs one hell of a D. Clancy Pederast does not.

Not while he was in San Fran.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-05-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I'm surprised as hell about their D though. I just don't ****ing get it.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think there's no doubt that Dumerville is a catalyst but Mike Nolan has been an excellent defensive coordinator for years and years. He kinda reminds me of Pete Carroll in that he's an excellent coordinator that would excel as a college head coach.

But Denver's moves have been head and shoulders above the Chiefs and that alone sickens me beyond belief. I truly and honestly believe that it begins and ends with ownership.

I can tell you one thing's for sure: If I'm Clark Hunt and my head coach says "I'm going to hire Clancy Pendergast as my DC", I say "The ****ing bloody hell your are! Find someone else!"

**dirk digler** · 10-05-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I'm surprised as hell about their D though. I just don't ****ing get it.
Posted via Mobile Device

It is really really simple, they have Mike Nolan as their DC who knows how to coach defense. That is the downside of waiting to pick a head coach because all the good assistants are gone.

**Rausch** · 10-05-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Exactly. That is a huge difference.

I'd love to see a comparison between DV/Haley, year 1.

I'd argue both coaches came in with little to work with.

Not that I'm a fan of Haley. In fact I'd spank to the news he was canned...

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-05-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Not while he was in San Fran.

He wasn't the d-coordinator but he did help to provide the current 49ers with a shit-ton of defensive talent.

They're becoming a damn good football team.

carlos3652 · 10-05-2009, 03:24 PM

OTW - Great Analysis...

That being said, has it been taken into account that we played vs 1 playoff team last year, and this year we have played 3 in the first quarter, and 2 on the road....

So i feel that even though we might be the same or worse as last year AT THIS POINT AND TIME i feel that after 4 Games we are better....

Statistically, I want to go down on the record stating that games 5-8 will be MUCH better than 2008.

OTW - again good analysis on your part... not taking anyway way from you on this... just wanted to state the schedule difference...

**Rausch** · 10-05-2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raybec 4

Mike Nolan runs one hell of a D. Clancy Pederast does not.

I'm also getting sick of the "our offense left our defense on the field all day" argument.

Bullshit.

Haley preached on and on about how in shape this team was/would be. And you can look at any number of teams that had $3itty offenses and great (not just good, but GREAT) defenses. The Bucs, Bears, Steelers, Ravens, 90's Chiefs most of the time, Dolphins, etc.

Their offenses wouldn't show up entire games and yet the D would make plays to WIN games at the end...

**dirk digler** · 10-05-2009, 03:26 PM

One thing to keep in mind about Pioli and that was in 2000 the Pats were 5-11 and for a portion of the season didn't even have a full 53 man roster because Pioli\Belichick didn't like anybody that they could bring in or who they had on their practice squad.

Then the following year they started out 0-2 and everybody was thinking Belichick was going to be fired.

The rest is history. Now I am not saying that is going to happen here but the first year is basically a bloodletting.

raybec 4 · 10-05-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

I'm also getting sick of the "our offense left our defense on the field all day" argument.

Bullshit.

Haley preached on and on about how in shape this team was/would be. And you can look at any number of teams that had $3itty offenses and great (not just good, but GREAT) defenses. The Bucs, Bears, Steelers, Ravens, 90's Chiefs most of the time, Dolphins, etc.

Their offenses wouldn't show up entire games and yet the D would make plays to WIN games at the end...

Poor talent + poor decision making= Bad defense

Not too much time on the field.

**morphius** · 10-05-2009, 03:28 PM

I'm enjoying this year a lot more than last, at least we have pretended to be competitive. Maybe we should look at this after next week, 'cause last year week 5 was the 34-0 slaughter at the hands of the Panthers. Of course this years having 1/3 of our first downs taken away by penalties hasn't helped (yes, I pulled the 1/3 out of my ass).

**Buehler445** · 10-05-2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I think there's no doubt that Dumerville is a catalyst but Mike Nolan has been an excellent defensive coordinator for years and years. He kinda reminds me of Pete Carroll in that he's an excellent coordinator that would excel as a college head coach.

But Denver's moves have been head and shoulders above the Chiefs and that alone sickens me beyond belief. I truly and honestly believe that it begins and ends with ownership.

I can tell you one thing's for sure: If I'm Clark Hunt and my head coach says "I'm going to hire Clancy Pendergast as my DC", I say "The ****ing bloody hell your are! Find someone else!"

I hate Pendergast too. That was definitely a

hiring.

I'm with you on some of the moves they made, but some of them should have been crippling. Cutler, trading this year's first and a second for a short CB, doing very little to help their D...on paper this should be an average offensive team and a shitbox defensive team.
Posted via Mobile Device

Just Passin' By · 10-05-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I'm surprised as hell about their D though. I just don't ****ing get it.
Posted via Mobile Device

Major overhaul, overlooked by a lot of people:

Dawkins
Hill
Goodman
Davis
McBean
Fields

That's 6 of 11 defensive starters that weren't on the team last season, and that's before you start looking at position changes, sub-package players, or backups.

Playing Cleveland and Oakland doesn't hurt, either.

Tiger's Fan · 10-05-2009, 03:31 PM

Fire em all/Sanchez....thread.

PS: Rome wasn't built in a day because those mother ****ers were lazy.

10-05-2009, 01:50 PM
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2031115	At the Quarter Mark: Better or Worse? After the Haley hire, you couldn't throw a stick through this place without hitting someone that made the following comment: "We'll be a better team based on coaching alone," or, "we'll win X amount of games due to coaching alone." Yes, it's only been 4 games, and this is NOT a call for Haley's head - but is deserved criticism of the way he's prepared this team over the first 4 games of the regular season. Also, IN NO WAY is the following an endorsement of Herman Edwards. What it is, however, is a giant red flag - this team - of which 60% has been handpicked by Pioli and Haley - is actually worse in almost all statistical categories when compared to the 2008 team after 4 games - which many here claimed were the darkest days of last season. We'll call it, B.S. - or, Before Spread. Offensively (bolded number is 2009 totals): 1st downs: (63) (62) 3rd down conversions: (25/62 - 40%) (9/51 - 18%) Total yards: (1145) (986) Rushing yards: (554) (406) Passing yards: (591) (580) Sacks Allowed: (12) (13) Penalties/Yardage: (10/109) 29/230 Scoring: (16.25 PPG) (16 PPG) Not a single category in which we've improved over 2008, which happened to include going through 3 QB's - playing the 3rd stringer in 2 of the 4. Defensively: 1st downs allowed: (74) (85) 3rd down conversions against: (25/54 - 46%) (25/58 - 43%) Total yards allowed: (1517) (1516) Rushing yards allowed: (706) (514) Passing yards allowed: (811) (1002) Sacks: (3) (5) Points allowed: (24.25 PPG) (28 PPG) Turnover margin: (+2) (Even) Yea! 2 more sacks! And nice to see the 192 yard improvement from the rush defense, only to see 191 of it be given back up by the pass defense. The 2008 team was apparently so bad that management felt the need to purge 30 players, yet is playing worse with a roster that is 60% their handpicked players? What message are you trying to send, Todd? It seems like it changes on a weekly **ing basis. As someone who predicted a 3 win season, the losses aren't surprising me. The way we are losing, after hearing the phrase, "we're going to be a big, strong, fast, smart, tough, disciplined football team" IS surprising me. There is no improvement over the "Dark Ages" of last season in ANY of those areas. And there's no excuse for it, especially the lack of discipline. Make 'em run some more, Todd - it seems to be working... Enough excuses - enough with the "messages" - enough petty bullshit sitting players - time to see some *ing improvement. Not necessarily wins. IMPROVEMENT. Last edited by OnTheWarpath15; 10-05-2009 at 05:47 PM..*
Posts: 60,758

10-05-2009, 03:20 PM	#47
Halfcan In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2005 Casino cash: $7327995	Sorry but Haley has been the worst coach I have ever seen-if he is next year I would be surprised.
Posts: 43,200

10-05-2009, 03:24 PM	#53
carlos3652 El Diablo Join Date: Dec 2004 Casino cash: $1586679	OTW - Great Analysis... That being said, has it been taken into account that we played vs 1 playoff team last year, and this year we have played 3 in the first quarter, and 2 on the road.... So i feel that even though we might be the same or worse as last year AT THIS POINT AND TIME i feel that after 4 Games we are better.... Statistically, I want to go down on the record stating that games 5-8 will be MUCH better than 2008. OTW - again good analysis on your part... not taking anyway way from you on this... just wanted to state the schedule difference...
Posts: 6,108

10-05-2009, 03:26 PM	#55
dirk digler Please squeeze Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Clinton, MO Casino cash: $84644	One thing to keep in mind about Pioli and that was in 2000 the Pats were 5-11 and for a portion of the season didn't even have a full 53 man roster because Pioli\Belichick didn't like anybody that they could bring in or who they had on their practice squad. Then the following year they started out 0-2 and everybody was thinking Belichick was going to be fired. The rest is history. Now I am not saying that is going to happen here but the first year is basically a bloodletting.
Posts: 67,124

10-05-2009, 03:28 PM	#57
morphius World's finest morphius Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $5695027	I'm enjoying this year a lot more than last, at least we have pretended to be competitive. Maybe we should look at this after next week, 'cause last year week 5 was the 34-0 slaughter at the hands of the Panthers. Of course this years having 1/3 of our first downs taken away by penalties hasn't helped (yes, I pulled the 1/3 out of my ass).
Posts: 26,023

10-05-2009, 03:31 PM	#60
Tiger's Fan Veteran Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Ks Casino cash: $10004900	Fire em all/Sanchez....thread. PS: Rome wasn't built in a day because those mother ****ers were lazy. __________________ Rock Chalk! The San Diego SuperChokers! DaneMcCloud: where cowardice meets dishonesty
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