Chiefs Deep Thoughts: By OnTheWarpath58 - Page 2

**OnTheWarpath15** · 10-12-2009, 09:04 AM

Getting ready to watch the broadcast now, but I thought I'd share my thoughts from yesterday with Tiny and Clayton watching from Section 334 at Arrowhead.

Do they call it "offense" because it's offensive?

Watching from the upper level end zone gives you an opporunity to see the entire field, plays develop, etc - and just as suspected, our WR's ARE getting open. Cassel IS holding the ball too long. I lost count at how many times Bowe wasn't the 1st or second read.

There were a few plays that come to mind that Clay and I discussed. One was a completion to Ryan, where he ran 10-15 yards up the seam, then hitched, and Cassel hit him. Cassel's eyes never left Ryan, and I asked where the **** he would have gone with the ball had Ryan not been open. You can't lock onto one ****ing guy in this league.

Another, where Bowe ran a 10 yard out, was wide open, and Cassel threw the ball away.

Guys WERE open yesterday, but Cassel has to realize that guys aren't going to be WIDE ****ING OPEN like they were in NE. If the WR has a step, get the ****ing ball in there.

Which he did on the game tying drive. So if we can program Matt Cassel's brain to think that every drive is do or die, he might become a solid QB. Otherwise, we have a "franchise QB" that's afraid to throw the ball in tight spots.

Speaking of OL, pass protection and run blocking became noticably improved when Goff left the game.

So, should they call the defense "offense" as well? They are offensive too.

I'll start with the only two positives I saw.

Glenn Dorsey had his best game of the season. And I thought that Flowers had a good game as well, though I don't recall them throwing at him much - there were several plays that he either made the play in run support, or turned the RB back inside to the big boys, usually Mays.

Mike Brown is a slower, dumber, undisciplined version of Bernard Pollard. I'm sure that Leggett is getting all the blame for the Austin TD's, but had Brown done his job, they would have been 15 yard gains instead of 60.

Mike Vrabel shoudl stick to playing TE, because he's ****ing worthless as a LB.

Another game giving up 500 yards of offense, 150 of it on the ground, and I'm sure someone, somewhere has said something to the effect of the "defense is getting better." Bullshit.

The Cowboys were the gift that kept on giving, and we said "**** you."

I don't recall a game where the opposition did this much to give a game to the Chiefs. A bounty of gifts wrapped in nice paper and a bow, and we shunned it like it was socks and underwear from Great Aunt Gertrude.

13 penalties. 4 fumbles, two of which we recovered and started drives in/near the red zone. (Thanks for half out points, Dallas!) Austin dropped 2 TD passes, and there was a 3rd at our end of the stadium that was dropped, and I don't recall who the WR was.

And the best gift of all: Starting a drive in OT from the 50 ****ing yard line, and getting ONE YARD. Nothing like getting that bike you wanted for Christmas, then getting so excited you decided to take it for a spin before Dad installed the seat. Ouch.

Someone tell Dorothy that "there's no place like home" is a crock of shit

At bare minimum, half the stadium was in blue, and personally I think we were outnumbered. Reminded me of the game in STL back in 2006 where we outnumbered Rams fans. Dallas fans were loader when thier team needed it that Chiefs fans were, crowd noise was even a factor on an offensive penalty we committed.

Wait 'til Pittsburgh comes in, it'll be 75/25 Steelers fans.

Greatest fans in the NFL, my ass.

That's it from memory, I'll probably post additional thoughts as the TV broadcast sparks some more.

CHIEFS58 · 10-12-2009, 09:39 AM

it starts and stops with the o-line. plain and simple. you cant even cover fundamental football with a crap o-line.

Hammock Parties · 10-12-2009, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbything

I've developing a strong hatred for Vrabel. The only time you ever hear his name mentioned is when he's complaining on the field. He's perpetually pissed off.

"Mike Vrabel has never been on an 0-5 team in his life!!!! He provides good leadership and a strong veteran presence because of all the winning he's done!!! He's the "consummate" professional!!! From the day he got in here he's been nothing short of everything you'd want in a player!!!"

**** you Holthus. I'm tired of listening to you kneel and bob on Vrabel, and I'm tired of watching him complain to the refs.

His pass rush is about as "yawn" as Hali's.

He's just a guy. Anyone could have caught that TD.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-12-2009, 09:45 AM

Great post. Several of us were echoing all of your sentiments, save for the open receivers, as it was hard to tell from the broadcast.

If you go back to about 3:30 yesterday, there was a lynch mob forming for Leggett, when about 3 of us had to point out, that while he missed the tackle, the dumb mother****er at safety has to take the correct angle to put himself in a position to clean up.

Mike Brown should be seeing Ray Farmer as we speak. If not, "The Right 53" is bullshit.

**DeezNutz** · 10-12-2009, 09:46 AM

On a more positive note, imagine how bad our defense would be without Vrabel and his leadership...

Right? Right.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-12-2009, 09:47 AM

Oh, and despite all the crowing about our run D: If Tashard Choice was given 22-25 carries yesterday, he probably would have had 180 yards. They really helped us by playing Barber.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-12-2009, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

On a more positive note, imagine how bad our defense would be without Vrabel and his leadership...

Right? Right.

/Simplex3

Jilly · 10-12-2009, 09:47 AM

Cassell did hold the ball too long and I think someone needs to check his peripheral vision, there were times when he started to scramble and absolutely noone was about to touch him. That being said, he did manage to make something out of nothing a few times, and managed to eek out that last regular time drive to tie it up. I think he had a decent game, considering the fact, that of the first quarter he got sacked, how many times? Our O line needs help, something needs to happen, we can't make the run game work, which means we cant' make the passing game work, and it's because of those guys not doing their jobs.

And yes, I was absolutely DISGUSTED at how many Cowboys fans there were. And even MORE disgusted, with 2 minutes left in the game, and seeing Chiefs fans actually start leaving. There is NO way we can call ourselves the best fans in the NFL with that kind of bullshit.

And not that it matters, but I actually saw some improvement yesterday, and on the plus side, we were ahead most of the game. So that was something new!

**DeezNutz** · 10-12-2009, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Great post. Several of us were echoing all of your sentiments, save for the open receivers, as it was hard to tell from the broadcast.

If you go back to about 3:30 yesterday, there was a lynch mob forming for Leggett, when about 3 of us had to point out, that while he missed the tackle, the dumb mother****er at safety has to take the correct angle to put himself in a position to clean up.

Mike Brown should be seeing Ray Farmer as we speak. If not, "The Right 53" is bullshit.

And Mecca, the most dire, negative poster in the world, was cautioning people to give Leggett more time to develop; he's still a pup.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 10-12-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jilly

Cassell did hold the ball too long and I think someone needs to check his peripheral vision, there were times when he started to scramble and absolutely noone was about to touch him.

This, and some of us have been saying it all year.

Yes, there is pressure sometimes.

But very honestly, the OL has given him more time that people here are giving credit for, only to see Cassel get a case of happy feet and panic.

He's falling victim to as much "phantom" pressure as he is real pressure.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 10-12-2009, 09:54 AM

He's also not very good at recognizing the blitz.

Just saw the play where Brooking blitzed, and Cassel went into a shell instead of getting the ball to Pope, who had beat the LB.

**DeezNutz** · 10-12-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jilly

Cassell did hold the ball too long and I think someone needs to check his peripheral vision, there were times when he started to scramble and absolutely noone was about to touch him. That being said, he did manage to make something out of nothing a few times, and managed to eek out that last regular time drive to tie it up. I think he had a decent game, considering the fact, that of the first quarter he got sacked, how many times? Our O line needs help, something needs to happen, we can't make the run game work, which means we cant' make the passing game work, and it's because of those guys not doing their jobs.

And yes, I was absolutely DISGUSTED at how many Cowboys fans there were. And even MORE disgusted, with 2 minutes left in the game, and seeing Chiefs fans actually start leaving. There is NO way we can call ourselves the best fans in the NFL with that kind of bullshit.

And not that it matters, but I actually saw some improvement yesterday, and on the plus side, we were ahead most of the game. So that was something new!

The Royals drafted a guy who, literally, couldn't see, Hosmer, so, while funny, your statement about Cassel's vision isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

That would be vintage Chiefs.

Tiger's Fan · 10-12-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Great post. Several of us were echoing all of your sentiments, save for the open receivers, as it was hard to tell from the broadcast.

If you go back to about 3:30 yesterday, there was a lynch mob forming for Leggett, when about 3 of us had to point out, that while he missed the tackle, the dumb mother****er at safety has to take the correct angle to put himself in a position to clean up.

Mike Brown should be seeing Ray Farmer as we speak. If not, "The Right 53" is bullshit.

You keep patting yourself on the back about this. If I were you, I would take any win I could get too. The fact of the matter is, no one is saying that Brown played well, or did his job on those plays. They're just pointing out that Legget is as bad as Brown is, and neither should be on an NFL roster.

PS: Pollard takes the same angle, or worse, and is just as slow.

FloridaMan88 · 10-12-2009, 09:57 AM

Cassel looks better in the no-huddle/shotgun offense (this was true with the Patriots lsat year). But his Rob Johnson-esque tendancies in holding onto the ball too long and taking sacks is alarming. The Chiefs can go out and spend all the high draft picks and $$$ on free agents their heart desires on rebuilding the offensive line and it will be wasted if Cassel plays like Rob Johnson.

58kcfan89 · 10-12-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

You can watch his head, and when he's only looking at one side of the field, it tells you all you need to know.

Not necessarily. There are usually more than one WR/TE/RB on one side of the field at a time. Just because he's looking at one side of the field doesn't mean he's locking onto one WR.

As far as him holding the ball too long, yes he does. But he's also the reason we were in OT after the game-tying drive. He made some great plays that made me think that he's gunna be a great QB when we get a legit team around him.

dallaschiefsfan · 10-12-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundmind

The "Greatest Fans in the NFL" I believe do reside in Kansas City. Unfortunately, a 2-30 record and nauseating play this season, has taken just a little of the wind from our sails. However, I will concede, I don't know when you could expect to see Arrowhead really "return"....maybe 2013-ish?

I'm sorry...this whole explanation is part of the problem. Chiefs fans were supposed to be different. I was 100% for shoving it up ownership's ass when Herm effing Edwards and Carl Peterson needed to be shown the door...but now that they're finally gone, there's no excuse. I don't care if we lose every game. Get your asses back into the stadium seat and bring the force of your fandom's will on the other team!

It does have an affect. Hell, that was at least part of Marty's success.

If the above explanation is really what this fan-base has come to, then you might as well change the team's name to the Dallas Texans and wear those retro-helmets from now on...because you're NO effing different than Cowboy fans. You're fair-weather. At least get out to the damn stadium, drink a few beers and cause 20 false starts for the other team. The twelfth man effect is real. Now go out and do your part if you're season ticket holder or local resident. Damn, this frustrates me.

10-12-2009, 09:04 AM
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2041115	Deep Thoughts: By OnTheWarpath58 Getting ready to watch the broadcast now, but I thought I'd share my thoughts from yesterday with Tiny and Clayton watching from Section 334 at Arrowhead. Do they call it "offense" because it's offensive? Watching from the upper level end zone gives you an opporunity to see the entire field, plays develop, etc - and just as suspected, our WR's ARE getting open. Cassel IS holding the ball too long. I lost count at how many times Bowe wasn't the 1st or second read. There were a few plays that come to mind that Clay and I discussed. One was a completion to Ryan, where he ran 10-15 yards up the seam, then hitched, and Cassel hit him. Cassel's eyes never left Ryan, and I asked where the ** he would have gone with the ball had Ryan not been open. You can't lock onto one ing guy in this league. Another, where Bowe ran a 10 yard out, was wide open, and Cassel threw the ball away. Guys WERE open yesterday, but Cassel has to realize that guys aren't going to be WIDE ING OPEN like they were in NE. If the WR has a step, get the ing ball in there. Which he did on the game tying drive. So if we can program Matt Cassel's brain to think that every drive is do or die, he might become a solid QB. Otherwise, we have a "franchise QB" that's afraid to throw the ball in tight spots. Speaking of OL, pass protection and run blocking became noticably improved when Goff left the game. So, should they call the defense "offense" as well? They are offensive too. I'll start with the only two positives I saw. Glenn Dorsey had his best game of the season. And I thought that Flowers had a good game as well, though I don't recall them throwing at him much - there were several plays that he either made the play in run support, or turned the RB back inside to the big boys, usually Mays. Mike Brown is a slower, dumber, undisciplined version of Bernard Pollard. I'm sure that Leggett is getting all the blame for the Austin TD's, but had Brown done his job, they would have been 15 yard gains instead of 60. Mike Vrabel shoudl stick to playing TE, because he's ing worthless as a LB. Another game giving up 500 yards of offense, 150 of it on the ground, and I'm sure someone, somewhere has said something to the effect of the "defense is getting better." Bullshit. The Cowboys were the gift that kept on giving, and we said "** you." I don't recall a game where the opposition did this much to give a game to the Chiefs. A bounty of gifts wrapped in nice paper and a bow, and we shunned it like it was socks and underwear from Great Aunt Gertrude. 13 penalties. 4 fumbles, two of which we recovered and started drives in/near the red zone. (Thanks for half out points, Dallas!) Austin dropped 2 TD passes, and there was a 3rd at our end of the stadium that was dropped, and I don't recall who the WR was. And the best gift of all: Starting a drive in OT from the 50 **ing yard line, and getting ONE YARD. Nothing like getting that bike you wanted for Christmas, then getting so excited you decided to take it for a spin before Dad installed the seat. Ouch. Someone tell Dorothy that "there's no place like home" is a crock of shit** At bare minimum, half the stadium was in blue, and personally I think we were outnumbered. Reminded me of the game in STL back in 2006 where we outnumbered Rams fans. Dallas fans were loader when thier team needed it that Chiefs fans were, crowd noise was even a factor on an offensive penalty we committed. Wait 'til Pittsburgh comes in, it'll be 75/25 Steelers fans. Greatest fans in the NFL, my ass. That's it from memory, I'll probably post additional thoughts as the TV broadcast sparks some more.
Posts: 60,758

10-12-2009, 09:39 AM	#16
CHIEFS58 Smoke a turd. Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Western North Carolina Casino cash: $10004930	it starts and stops with the o-line. plain and simple. you cant even cover fundamental football with a crap o-line.
Posts: 2,217

10-12-2009, 09:45 AM	#18
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	Great post. Several of us were echoing all of your sentiments, save for the open receivers, as it was hard to tell from the broadcast. If you go back to about 3:30 yesterday, there was a lynch mob forming for Leggett, when about 3 of us had to point out, that while he missed the tackle, the dumb mother****er at safety has to take the correct angle to put himself in a position to clean up. Mike Brown should be seeing Ray Farmer as we speak. If not, "The Right 53" is bullshit. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083

10-12-2009, 09:47 AM	#20
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	Oh, and despite all the crowing about our run D: If Tashard Choice was given 22-25 carries yesterday, he probably would have had 180 yards. They really helped us by playing Barber. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083

10-12-2009, 09:47 AM	#22
Jilly MVP Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lee's Summit Casino cash: $9984925	Cassell did hold the ball too long and I think someone needs to check his peripheral vision, there were times when he started to scramble and absolutely noone was about to touch him. That being said, he did manage to make something out of nothing a few times, and managed to eek out that last regular time drive to tie it up. I think he had a decent game, considering the fact, that of the first quarter he got sacked, how many times? Our O line needs help, something needs to happen, we can't make the run game work, which means we cant' make the passing game work, and it's because of those guys not doing their jobs. And yes, I was absolutely DISGUSTED at how many Cowboys fans there were. And even MORE disgusted, with 2 minutes left in the game, and seeing Chiefs fans actually start leaving. There is NO way we can call ourselves the best fans in the NFL with that kind of bullshit. And not that it matters, but I actually saw some improvement yesterday, and on the plus side, we were ahead most of the game. So that was something new!
Posts: 8,462

10-12-2009, 09:54 AM	#25
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2041115	He's also not very good at recognizing the blitz. Just saw the play where Brooking blitzed, and Cassel went into a shell instead of getting the ball to Pope, who had beat the LB.
Posts: 60,758

10-12-2009, 09:57 AM	#28
FloridaMan88 Mahomes: We Are All Witnesses Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Miami, FL Casino cash: $-797094	Cassel looks better in the no-huddle/shotgun offense (this was true with the Patriots lsat year). But his Rob Johnson-esque tendancies in holding onto the ball too long and taking sacks is alarming. The Chiefs can go out and spend all the high draft picks and $$$ on free agents their heart desires on rebuilding the offensive line and it will be wasted if Cassel plays like Rob Johnson.
Posts: 50,355