Vrabel and Hali are studs!

[Hammock Parties]

One sack apiece today! We haven't seen a pass rush like this since the days of Derrick Thomas and Neil Smith!

[Brock]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

I see a cornerstone of the defense that just needs to be surrounded by more talent.

No way he is a backup.

I don't think you know what cornerstone means.

[philfree]

Originally Posted by donkhater

I'm with Mecca on this one. Hali is average. No one is going to write him in for a Pro-Bowl birth anytime soon. He isn't athletic enough to be great in coverage and doesn't have the burst or moves to be a great pass-rusher.

What he does have is work ethic and a motor. Those two things will get you 5-8 sacks a year and a solid starting role on an average defense. Combine those two things with actual talent and you get Jared Allen, who IS the dominant player many of you seem to think Hali is.

This defense has sucked so bad for so long, you guys are salivating over mediocrity.

I see Hali as a great guy to have on the team that will be a good mentor to the guy we draft to take his position. Actually you can never have enough pass rushers though so maybe Hali and two other OLBs not yet on the team would give us a nice rotation where our pass rushers stay fresh. I hope we don't think we have our ROLB position covered because Hali has proven just adequate. I like the guy but he's A V G.

PhilFree

[Hog Rider]

Tamba,

Originally Posted by Hog Rider

His arms wide!!!!!!!

Shaka, when the quarterback fell!

Hali returns!

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Brock

I don't think you know what cornerstone means.

To me, it just means a piece that contributes on the positive side of the equation that is still in his prime.

The guy plays his responsibilities well, has a non stop motor, and is a leader on the defense. He needs more help around him.

Even still, he should have 10 sacks this year. I know he is on pace for 8, but the Chiefs have had their toughest stretch of the schedule.

I think a double digit sack guy is a cornerstone. Call me crazy.

[Brock]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

To me, it just means a piece that contributes on the positive side of the equation that is still in his prime.

The guy plays his responsibilities well, has a non stop motor, and is a leader on the defense. He needs more help around him.

Even still, he should have 10 sacks this year. I know he is on pace for 8, but the Chiefs have had their toughest stretch of the schedule.

I think a double digit sack guy is a cornerstone. Call me crazy.

That's not what a cornerstone is. Jared Allen is a cornerstone. Ray Lewis is a cornerstone. Tamba Hali is not a cornerstone.

[King_Chief_Fan]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Yep. I defended a guy who took several teams to the playoffs and got the shaft here from a GM that didn't let him build the team his way until his third year.

I am actually glad he is gone because I don't think he would have taken the Chiefs to the Super Bowl. But, I also acknowlege that he was given a very poor situation here.

Haley inherited worse due to the terds that Herm left in the punch bowl

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by donkhater

I'm with Mecca on this one. Hali is average. No one is going to write him in for a Pro-Bowl birth anytime soon. He isn't athletic enough to be great in coverage and doesn't have the burst or moves to be a great pass-rusher.

What he does have is work ethic and a motor. Those two things will get you 5-8 sacks a year and a solid starting role on an average defense. Combine those two things with actual talent and you get Jared Allen, who IS the dominant player many of you seem to think Hali is.

This defense has sucked so bad for so long, you guys are salivating over mediocrity.

First, Jared Allen is hands down better than Hali.

That said, Jared Allen didn't really produce until he had talent lining up next to him in Boone and Hali rushing from the other side.

Add in that early in his career, Allen was actually given leads and could rush the passer without fearing the run so much.

Now, Allen is playing on a great line.... no question.

Okay, again, Allen is the better player. However, that doesn't mean that Hali is 'average'. He is good. Just not dominant. He can't take over a game.

But, he is a solid starter, and would be on most teams in the league.

The defense should actually improve because I think the front three are playing better.

I hope that DJ can get his stuff together, because he has the talent to really make this defense step up.

Otherwise, this defense will really struggle all year. They just don't have enough ability in the middle of the field.

And, Hali is good on one side, but Vrabel isn't what he used to be. Chiefs really need some more speed and explosion at that spot.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Brock

That's not what a cornerstone is. Jared Allen is a cornerstone. Ray Lewis is a cornerstone. Tamba Hali is not a cornerstone.

I would not compare Hali to any of those players.

But, that is your definition of what a cornerstone is.

I explained mine.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

That said, Jared Allen didn't really produce until he had talent lining up next to him in Boone and Hali rushing from the other side.

.

Not true.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan

Haley inherited worse due to the terds that Herm left in the punch bowl

Haley has the benefit of inheriting a young team he can build the way he wants.

Some of the guys that Herm took, he chose to play a different style of offense and defense.

It will be interesting to see how those young guys play as they go to different teams.

Two players who Chiefs planet, by and large, believed sucked are starting with their new teams.

McBride had 1.5 sacks. Pollard is starting for a Texans team much better than the Chiefs.

Oh, and their defense has improved since his arrival.

Yet, those two players 'sucked'.

Herm drafted much better than DV did. We will see McBride and Pollard be productive for the next 10 years.

Not superstars.... but productive NFL players that would have contributed here for a long time.

Haley is just going in a different direction. That is understood, and should be encouraged.

Give him three years to build the team his way. Then evaluate.

Once you hire a guy, it is a bigger mistake to tie their hands and ask them to do things your way. You hire a guy for a reason.

So, long live Haley. Lets see where this thing is in three years.

Same as the Chiefs should have done with Herm. Give him three years, but with the ability to make changes from the very beginning.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Not true.

He had his breakout season when those two were lined up on the same line. Just the year prior, Hali had more sacks than him.

And, prior to that, as I said, the offense gave him leads to work with and he could be one dimensional. (Which led to his benching at the beginning of the 2005 season).

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

He had his breakout season when those two were lined up on the same line. Just the year prior, Hali had more sacks than him.

And, prior to that, as I said, the offense gave him leads to work with and he could be one dimensional. (Which led to his benching at the beginning of the 2005 season).

Rookie year, starting only 10 games, Allen had 9 sacks. His next year without Hali he had 11. Allen emerged as a force from the very beginning.

[DeezNutz]

Hali, a cornerstone player? Too funny.

A cornerstone player is an elite talent who causes major matchup problems, thus creating opportunities for everyone else, in addition to getting his.

Hali, while a good story, is hardly someone whom opponents have to gameplan for.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Rookie year, starting only 10 games, Allen had 9 sacks. His next year without Hali he had 11. Allen emerged as a force from the very beginning.

It is amazing what happens when you have an offense that is explosive and can give you leads, and all you have to do is rush the passer.

Yet, even with all his studliness, he had fewer sacks in 2006 than 'average' Tamba Hali. Hmmm.

He had his first pro bowl in his fourth year. Up until 2006, he was considered a liability against the run, and a one dimensional player. In 2006 he finally started to put together all of his repsonsibilities and fewer sacks than Hali.

In 2007, he finally broke out. His fourth year, also the year that they added a good DT playing next to him.

But, don't let the facts get in the way of your hero worship.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Hali, a cornerstone player? Too funny.

A cornerstone player is an elite talent who causes major matchup problems, thus creating opportunities for everyone else, in addition to getting his.

Hali, while a good story, is hardly someone whom opponents have to gameplan for.

Again, a 'different' definition. See how this works. We all define these terms a bit differently.

Some people consider a franchise QB a far lesser accomplishment than I do. I consider a franchise player, a guy like that, be it on offense or defense.

But, even at your definition.... if you haven't noticed, Hali is the one on this defense that the offense game plans for. I can tell by looking at the games, but even the coaches and players admit it.

For the record, Hali isn't a 'franchise' player in my mind. He isn't a dominating player. He is just a good player that is a starter on most teams and is not needing replacement. I wouldn't mind seeing him on the other side. I wouldn't mind having a truly explosive pass rusher where he is now.... but even at his current OLB spot, he can be very effective.... and a solid piece of the foundation of this defense.