****Official Weight Loss and Exercise Thread****

[luv]

I know that TinyE has the CP Weight Loss Challenge thread, but this is a new beginning for me. No losing weight for prizes, as that motivation ended on July 1st. This time I'm doing it for me. My goal is 75 lbs. Slow and steady wins the race. This time, the prize will be a whole new me.

Anyone else still battling the bulge? Here, hopefully, you can find more encouragement and tips on diet and exercise. Feel free to talk about discouragements, setbacks, frustrations, etc as well. We're here to help...at least I am.

[Ecto-I]

Originally Posted by Silock

Still, those 45 minutes are much more effective when preceded by a depletion of muscle glycogen stores. You can shorten the time and increase the effectiveness. Win-win, IMO. Plus, if your rest intervals are sufficiently short, it's ridiculously difficult keep up 90% of your max HR for 25 minutes, let alone a full 45. After about 25 minutes, the max HR starts dropping. Obviously, this won't happen if you're sprinting for 30 seconds and resting for 2 minutes, but if you're doing something like a 1 minute on, 1 minute off, or 30 seconds on, 30 seconds off... 45 minutes would just about kill you.

I mean, I still do interval training on my non-resistance training days, but it's not as effective as it is on the days when I also resistance train. Just cardio alone, even HIIT, can give you food cravings. Hard to resist those.

But really, the reality is that exercise has a largely negligible effect on weight loss. It's all about diet.

I would contend that doing cardio immediately after your weight training session would inhibit your muscular gains since your body is in a catabolic state. There's a lot of science that goes back and forth. Some say cardio immediately after lifting is great because your glycogen stores are depleted. However, the detriment is that your body is using muscle stores for fuel as well.

I try to do cardio on a relatively empty stomach at a different time of day than my weight training. Obviously not everyone has time for this in which case I too would do it immediately following my resistance work. However, I don't necessarily agree that doing cardio after resistance training is MORE effective than otherwise...

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Silock

See, now you've got me curious. Obviously, everyone should be cardiovascularly fit, but that can be accomplished without specifically training for cardio. So I'm curious as to why you feel this way.

It comes down to the fact that lifting alone doesn't burn as many calories as cardio, unless you are doing circuit training.

Most people don't lift with a purpose. They lift, they rest, they lift, they rest.

The reality is that it is not cardiovascularly challenging and doesn't burn nearly as many calories.

You get a ton of cardio in everyday life. You are an active person. For those that the gym is the only activity in their day, cardio would burn more calories, increase circulation, and lower blood pressure much more than lifting will do.... given that they aren't circuit training.

Personally, I go to the gym twice a day. I eat differently for each trip. In the mornings, I go without any food until after my workout. That way, I burn fat.

But, in the evenings, I make sure I have had enough protein and carbs for the evening workout. Then, I take Shotgun before, and Synthesize after.

I think you are a pretty sharp guy, who knows what he is talking about. I also try to look at things from a realistic perspective. Most guys who lift, aren't doing it fast enough with littel enough rest to make it pay off for them cardiovascularly.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by Ecto-I

I would contend that doing cardio immediately after your weight training session would inhibit your muscular gains since your body is in a catabolic state. There's a lot of science that goes back and forth. Some say cardio immediately after lifting is great because your glycogen stores are depleted. However, the detriment is that your body is using muscle stores for fuel as well.

I've been doing cardio after weight training since I started lifting seriously a decade ago. Hasn't hurt my gains one bit. Weight training tells your body "Hey, you need to hang on to this, because it's needed." Weight training before cardio actually prevents your body from wanting to use muscle for energy. So, once you start depleting the glycogen stores, it won't look to muscle to fuel itself (because it already assumes that it needs to maintain the muscle), and then dips into fat stores.

The fears of muscle cannibalization due to cardio are vastly overrated. Cardio after weight training also has benefits like increasing the blood flow all over the body, helping the muscles repair.

However, I don't necessarily agree that doing cardio after resistance training is MORE effective than otherwise...

Look at it this way: It's going to take you about 30 minutes just to burn off excess energy as it is (excess meaning NOT fat). You can either do that with cardio or lifting. If you ignore the lifting, you WILL lose muscle mass, because the body isn't getting the signals that it needs to keep it. So, you can do cardio for 30 minutes that isn't going to actually burn fat, just so you can GET to the part where you burn fat... or, you can use that energy for something useful, like resistance training. Then, when you get to the end of the resistance training, your body wants to hold on to muscle, yet needs energy. Where's it going to look? Fat stores. And then you do some intense cardio and it doesn't have to be an extended session to burn a lot of fat.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

It comes down to the fact that lifting alone doesn't burn as many calories as cardio, unless you are doing circuit training.

Cardio doesn't burn that many calories, either. Using my HR monitor, I burn roughly the same amount of calories in a session of resistance training and HIIT work that I do if I JUST do cardio. Of course, the elliptical and treadmill all read ridiculously high numbers that aren't even close to being accurate.

The reality is that it is not cardiovascularly challenging and doesn't burn nearly as many calories.

Most people that do JUST cardio don't make it cardiovascularly challenging, either. You're only going to get out of it what you put into it.

You get a ton of cardio in everyday life. You are an active person. For those that the gym is the only activity in their day, cardio would burn more calories, increase circulation, and lower blood pressure much more than lifting will do.... given that they aren't circuit training.

I guess I would then question WHY they aren't circuit training. It's not like they don't have time. It doesn't take equipment to circuit train, just like it doesn't take equipment to do cardio. In the modern age, "either or" just isn't a real problem. It's all there. It's all available. You don't have to pick one or the other.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Silock

Cardio doesn't burn that many calories, either. Using my HR monitor, I burn roughly the same amount of calories in a session of resistance training and HIIT work that I do if I JUST do cardio. Of course, the elliptical and treadmill all read ridiculously high numbers that aren't even close to being accurate.



Most people that do JUST cardio don't make it cardiovascularly challenging, either. You're only going to get out of it what you put into it.



I guess I would then question WHY they aren't circuit training. It's not like they don't have time. It doesn't take equipment to circuit train, just like it doesn't take equipment to do cardio. In the modern age, "either or" just isn't a real problem. It's all there. It's all available. You don't have to pick one or the other.

Does you heart rate monitor have a calorie counter?

Clearly, I believe in lifting.... and you are always going to get out of it what you put into it. Why don't they do circuit training? Some think it is confusing. Some think it is too hard.

Clearly, I think that circuit training is better than the eliptical as a stand alone method of exercise.

But, I just think that most won't do it. So, if it is the standard lifting with three minutes of rest in between... then the eliptical is better.

Personally, I don't circuit train because I am trying to get bigger. I do my cardio in the morning. I do my lifting at night. I make sure I rest in between sets to get more work in, so that I can get the size I am look for.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Silock

I guess I would then question WHY they aren't circuit training. It's not like they don't have time. It doesn't take equipment to circuit train, just like it doesn't take equipment to do cardio. In the modern age, "either or" just isn't a real problem. It's all there. It's all available. You don't have to pick one or the other.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I don't enjoy weights, and I don't enjoy gyms. I just don't want to do that kind of shit. The reality is that I'd rather run or swim (outdoors) than do anything else. And I'm not even going to try to back this up scientifically but I think that's really what's most important: finding something you enjoy that gets you off your ass. Not everybody is going to turn into a gym bunny. And that's fine - just do something. Find your niche.

I know earlier in the year, before my back problems started, I went from 240 to 220 without touching a single weight, at around 5 pounds a month, so it can be done, whether it's the optimal way to do it or not, and I'm looking forward to getting myself going again. I've really felt like something's been missing the last six weeks, since I haven't been able to run.

(And damn has the weight come back fast - I've got a lot of work to do)

[luv]

Isn't cardio goo for metabolism?

[Silock]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Does you heart rate monitor have a calorie counter?

Yes. You enter your sex, weight, height, max HR, and VO2/max and it counts the calories for you.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by luv

Isn't cardio goo for metabolism?

There's not much you can do to raise or lower your metabolism. It's by and large set by your genetics.

[Silock]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I think that's really what's most important: finding something you enjoy that gets you off your ass. Not everybody is going to turn into a gym bunny. And that's fine - just do something. Find your niche.

I 110% agree with this.

The problem is most people don't want to do ANYTHING, and as such, they're proper ****ed if they half-ass it at the gym and expect results.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Silock

Yes. You enter your sex, weight, height, max HR, and VO2/max and it counts the calories for you.

****. I need that. link?

[Silock]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

****. I need that. link?

I actually can't find one. I've been looking for the same model to get for my wife for Christmas, because she wants it, but I can't find it.

I actually bought it off of woot during a wootoff a couple of years ago. It's a Reebok one, and it only cost me $20. The closest thing I can find online costs about $100.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Silock

Yes. You enter your sex, weight, height, max HR, and VO2/max and it counts the calories for you.

Alright.... stupid question, but what do you mean VO2/max? And, how do I figure it out?

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I can't speak for anybody else, but I don't enjoy weights, and I don't enjoy gyms. I just don't want to do that kind of shit. The reality is that I'd rather run or swim (outdoors) than do anything else. And I'm not even going to try to back this up scientifically but I think that's really what's most important: finding something you enjoy that gets you off your ass. Not everybody is going to turn into a gym bunny. And that's fine - just do something. Find your niche.

I know earlier in the year, before my back problems started, I went from 240 to 220 without touching a single weight, at around 5 pounds a month, so it can be done, whether it's the optimal way to do it or not, and I'm looking forward to getting myself going again. I've really felt like something's been missing the last six weeks, since I haven't been able to run.

(And damn has the weight come back fast - I've got a lot of work to do)

I totally agree that you have to find something that you like and do it. It used to be sex for me, but now I get bored after about an hour. Plus, you don't burn that many calories, believe it or not.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Silock

There's not much you can do to raise or lower your metabolism. It's by and large set by your genetics.

True, but if you work out in the morning, you raise your body temperature, which allows you to burn more calories over the course of a day.

The other thing that I think is that you can do cardio in the morning on an empty stomach without much risk of your body canabalizing your muscle. Or, do you think that I am wrong there?