Why people are disappointed: Exhibit A - Talent Evaluation

[OnTheWarpath15]

Since there seems to be several myths, excuses and some flat-out lies about why some folks are pissed off about this team right now, I thought I'd put together a few threads explaining, as clearly as I can, where people are coming from.

One of the bigger excuses is the infamous, "Pioli inherited a shitty team."

Let me make this clear: I do not disagree.

However, that doesn't excuse the Executive of the Decade for the team being no better now than it was this time last year - and you could make an argument that it is worse.

And one of the reasons why this team still sucks is simple:

The Executive of the Decade missed BADLY on talent evaluation.



I just spent a few minutes researching the transactions Pioli has made since taking the job, and it's even worse than I originally thought.

Counting draft picks, trades and signings, Pioli is responsible for FORTY FIVE new players to this organization.

And of these 45, it's fair to say that only Succop and Chambers are clear upgrades to their predecessors.

Two. Out of forty-five.

That's a whopping 4% success rate.



I'm sorry, but blaming Herm here is ridiculous. The best players on this team are Herm's players.

Looking at the current roster - including the active roster, PS and IR - 54% of the players currently in this organization are Pioli's.

Exactly half of the current starting 22 are Pioli's.

And this team is ONE win better than a 2008 squad that featured Tyler ****ing Thigpen at QB, and employed Gunther Cunningham as the DC.

With the majority being Pioli's hand-picked players.



Let the excuses flow like fine wine.

Discus.

This ought to be fun - let's hit that Millionth post.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by Mecca

I also like how everyone goes to Seymour as the comparison. I think we should just pop up the best OT and go "hey Ogden man"

He asked a question I answered it and I even clarified that I wasn't comparing him to Seymour.

You know I realize you only need a 2nd grade reading class to be a loser telemarketer but you should learn how to read at a higher level.

[philfree]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Tyson Jackson could be the best 5 tech in the league and he'd still never live up to that draft position.

How many palyers truley live up to that position? And from that draft?


PhilFree

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by tooge

This thread will be a good one to bump a year from now regardless of the outcome.

What would a year from now have to do with his failures THIS offseason?

Hell, he better knock it out of the park in 2010 - but that doesn't change the epic fail of 2009.

[ChiefsCountry]

Your foundation is QB, LT, and Pass Rusher. You build from there.

[SDChiefs]

Originally Posted by tooge

Man, you guys are good at dodging questions. Sooooo, would you have signed Canty, Haynesworth, or Brown, or all three? Do you think that would have translated into more than 6 wins?

We could have signed Canty and Housh, Drafted Sanchez and Maualuga, and it would have been cheaper and we would be in better hands now.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by philfree

I disagree. Those are highly visible players. Shutters, soffits, paint and trim. You never see the foundation because it's down in the ground holding up the rest of the house. Foundation players are the guys that go unnoticed while doing the very impoartant dirty work. If not then why would they have used the word foundation?

PhilFree

You think the positions I listed are representative of artifice? The QB? The LT? A 34 NT? An elite WR?

You can't possibly be serious.

Whenever anyone talks about foundational players, they're not talking about guards and TEs, much to the chagrin of KC fans.

Foundational players are cornerstones, players you build around, not those that necessarily do the dirty work.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

What would a year from now have to do with his failures THIS offseason?

Because then the narrative could be spun differently, and that's about it.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

You think the positions I listed are representative of artifice? The QB? The LT? A 34 NT? An elite WR?

You can't possibly be serious.

Whenever anyone talks about foundational players, they're not talking about guards and TEs, much to the chagrin of KC fans.

Foundational players are cornerstones, players you build around, not those that necessarily do the dirty work.

When people talk about foundation it's usually QB and the trenches. That's where it all starts.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

To me, a foundational player must either play one of the most important positions on the field or be an impact player, a game changer.

QB, LT, WR, RB, NT (34), LB (who can rush the QB or who is an absolute monster in the middle, Patrick Willis), CB, or S.

Unless a 34 DE transcends his position, he's not a foundational player, IMO.

Thanks.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

When people talk about foundation it's usually QB and the trenches. That's where it all starts.

Certain players on the line, but not the sweeping statement you just made.

LT, NT (34), DE (43).

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

When people talk about foundation it's usually QB and the trenches. That's where it all starts.

LT and Passrusher.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Just for the record Chris Canty was significantly cheaper than the guy we took 3rd overall to do the same thing.

I agree here. I said so in my post, so I agree with myself I guess.

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Pioli saw all the close games last year thought if I bring in my QB and switch to the 3-4 we could win games.

BINGO

Originally Posted by Chief Faithful

What ever it cost for Brown, Haynesworth and Canty add 25% for them to come to KC. Is it still worth it?

this

"Foundation" players are by definition players that others can be built upon, right? Like Linemen, QBs and Pass rushers. That is my opinion anyway.

I am not in love with the TJ pick at all, but am not slitting my wrists about it like others here have.

Richard Seymour wasnt supposed to go before 12 at the earliest. He turned out pretty good, even though he was overdrafted to be a "foundation" piece to a great defense.

Another reason I am not crying about the pick is that dlinemen take a couple years to get up to the level of expectation...almost universally. Meaning that if we are building a puzzle that is scheduled to be completed in two or three years, that would mean this wasnt a horrible time to take a position that is very rare to find, even more rare to find as a good prospect. Hopefully, the turkey is ready when we need to eat...if ya catch my drift.

About every team that runs a 3-4 that was in the top half of this last draft came out and said they had TJ targeted as well, much to the shagrin of many of the experts.

Id love to see what TJ will do once we add a good rushbacker behind him. I bet said rushbacker has much success because he is able to focus on more because of what TJs talents allow him to. I am being "glass half full" in this of course, because I love this team and want them to come out of the storm as a contender and not the next version of the Lions...I do admit that a lot of the optimism I had a month or so before Pioli was signed and done as our GM, is gone or faiding.

Time will tell.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Richard Seymour...not saying he is equal to him just using him as an example

Magee on the other hand I have seen some flashes from him when he gets to play but he still has a ways to go.

So despite the fact that Seymour was drafted as a DT in a 4-3, and was converted to a 3-4 DE 3 years later, that's the only name you can come up with?

I don't find that very convincing.

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Using a top 5 pick on a complimentary player is surely the best way to build a champion right?

It depends on what your opinions on the alternatives are.

It's looking like the only player that would have been worth that pick is orakpo, and he's the guy you thought had the bigest bust potential.
If I thought that the 5-tech that was available would be a damn good player, and the players at thew other postion would not, I'd have to take the 5-tech.

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

That's what 1st round picks are for...

Now can you say the same about Tyson Jackson? Even close?

Well there wasn't a matt Ryan sitting there in this draft.