Chiefs Why people are disappointed: Exhibit A - Talent Evaluation - Page 32

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-14-2009, 11:24 AM

Since there seems to be several myths, excuses and some flat-out lies about why some folks are pissed off about this team right now, I thought I'd put together a few threads explaining, as clearly as I can, where people are coming from.

One of the bigger excuses is the infamous, "Pioli inherited a shitty team."

Let me make this clear: I do not disagree.

However, that doesn't excuse the Executive of the Decade for the team being no better now than it was this time last year - and you could make an argument that it is worse.

And one of the reasons why this team still sucks is simple:

The Executive of the Decade missed BADLY on talent evaluation.

I just spent a few minutes researching the transactions Pioli has made since taking the job, and it's even worse than I originally thought.

Counting draft picks, trades and signings, Pioli is responsible for FORTY FIVE new players to this organization.

And of these 45, it's fair to say that only Succop and Chambers are clear upgrades to their predecessors.

Two. Out of forty-five.

That's a whopping 4% success rate.

I'm sorry, but blaming Herm here is ridiculous. The best players on this team are Herm's players.

Looking at the current roster - including the active roster, PS and IR - 54% of the players currently in this organization are Pioli's.

Exactly half of the current starting 22 are Pioli's.

And this team is ONE win better than a 2008 squad that featured Tyler ****ing Thigpen at QB, and employed Gunther Cunningham as the DC.

With the majority being Pioli's hand-picked players.

Let the excuses flow like fine wine.

Discus.

This ought to be fun - let's hit that Millionth post.

philfree · 12-16-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The proof is in the pudding.

Guys like DJ, Mike Williams, Limas Sweed, VY (until 7 games in this season), etc. haven't exactly set the league on fire.

There's is evidence to support it no doubt.

PhilFree

**BossChief** · 12-16-2009, 05:26 PM

Bowe+Crabtree=OMG

Hali+Orakpo=OMG

OMG!

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-16-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Bowe+Crabtree=OMG

Hali+Orakpo=OMG

OMG!

Crabtree? Absolutely.

Orapko? For me, I still have doubt.

**DeezNutz** · 12-16-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Bowe+Crabtree=OMG

Hali+Orakpo=OMG

OMG!

Is that list supposed to look really really good or just fine to mediocre?

chiefzilla1501 · 12-16-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

zilla,

I have praised Pioli for several things:

1) Firing Herm
2) Trading Gonzalez
3) Cutting Johnson
4) Trading Thigpen

It's absolute bullshit to claim that none of us ever give him credit for things that he does. I have several times, and the times that I was lukewarm or mocking of a move that he made that did work out (Chambers), I gladly ate my crow.

The most angering thing about this site is that there are people who view the Chiefs like a five year old who loves his dad and how a 25 year old loves his dad.

Both still care for the person/team, but one does so through an intentional lobotomizing and removing of all critical thinking.

You can still be a Chiefs fan and be highly critical of the moves you want them to make. I don't bitch about these moves to bitch, I bitch about these moves because I want the team to win.

When the Chiefs missed the playoffs in '96, I took off my Chiefs hat, doused it in lighter fluid, set it on fire and pissed on it.

When they got eliminated from the playoffs in '97, I took my magnetic NFL schedule and dry erase board and took a bat to the ****er.

When Tomlinson broke that run after the ****ed up blocked punt call on SNF in 2006 I broke a coffee table.

People mistake critical thinking for not being a fan because it's easier to assume that everything is perfect and that the people behind the curtain know what they are doing. You don't have to deal with the reality that Pioli is a charlatan, Haley is incompetent, and that this team is headed for another half decade of irrelevance. But that doesn't change the fact that if these moves continue to happen that the Chiefs will continue to suck in perpetuity.

Trust me. I enjoy when you guys criticize the living hell out of the Chiefs. Better than listening to a bunch of guys jerk off about how everything is rosy and fine and good, and Pioli and Haley can do no wrong. I have better stuff to masturbate to.

But there is a line. I got a lot of shit for saying that adding 10 guys to his personnel staff MIGHT make him a better decision-maker. And it's gotten to the point where I've heard critics reduce Pioli's role in New England as some kind of a whipping boy who sat in his office and played with his computer while Dimitroff and Belichick made all the decisions.

I think you guys get too much shit for telling it the way it is. Particularly guys like mecca. But realize the door swings both ways. Just because someone has something positive or neutral to say doesn't mean they're a homer.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-16-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Trust me. I enjoy when you guys criticize the living hell out of the Chiefs. Better than listening to a bunch of guys jerk off about how everything is rosy and fine and good, and Pioli and Haley can do no wrong. I have better stuff to masturbate to.

But there is a line. I got a lot of shit for saying that adding 10 guys to his personnel staff MIGHT make him a better decision-maker. And it's gotten to the point where I've heard critics reduce Pioli's role in New England as some kind of a whipping boy who sat in his office and played with his computer while Dimitroff and Belichick made all the decisions.

I think you guys get too much shit for telling it the way it is. Particularly guys like mecca. But realize the door swings both ways. Just because someone has something positive or neutral to say doesn't mean they're a homer.

No, saying positive things, just for the sake of saying positive things - without any evidence to back up their claims - means they're a homer.

**DeezNutz** · 12-16-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Just because someone has something positive or neutral to say doesn't mean they're a homer.

You're right. It might also mean the person is dumb as ****.

Positivity does not exist in this dojo, does it?

**BossChief** · 12-16-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The proof is in the pudding.

Guys like DJ, Mike Williams, Limas Sweed, VY (until 7 games in this season), etc. haven't exactly set the league on fire.

I dont understand the hatred for Vince Young either. That kid has taken his team on his back twice and ran them into the playoffs (if they make it this year.) He has single-handedly taken over games with his athleticism and is growing as all young qbs do. His ability to be elusive late in games has won many games that wouldnt have been wins otherwise.

**DeezNutz** · 12-16-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

I dont understand the hatred for Vince Young either. That kid has taken his team on his back twice and ran them into the playoffs (if they make it this year.) He has single-handedly taken over games with his athleticism and is growing as all young qbs do. His ability to be elusive late in games has won many games that wouldnt have been wins otherwise.

Pretty decent "if" there.

.

The distrust stems from the fact that he has a textbook throwing motion and impeccable mechanics.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-16-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

No, saying positive things, just for the sake of saying positive things - without any evidence to back up their claims - means they're a homer.

Do you mean like this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

Everybody bitches about the TJ pick.
I don't have that big of a problem with it. I think he's gonna be a BAD ASS.

**DaneMcCloud** · 12-16-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

I dont understand the hatred for Vince Young either. That kid has taken his team on his back twice and ran them into the playoffs (if they make it this year.) He has single-handedly taken over games with his athleticism and is growing as all young qbs do. His ability to be elusive late in games has won many games that wouldnt have been wins otherwise.

Hatred?

I wouldn't go that far.

But he had a very weird delivery in college. He had a severe mental breakdown that led him sit on the bench last season, while Kerry Collins QB'd the team for a 14-2 record.

He's looked very impressive the past 7 weeks but that's all it is: 7 weeks out of nearly four seasons.

If the Chiefs had drafted him (which they wouldn't have because the earth would cease to exist if the Chiefs drafted a QB in the first round), he'd have been cut after year three.

chiefzilla1501 · 12-16-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

No, saying positive things, just for the sake of saying positive things - without any evidence to back up their claims - means they're a homer.

But evidence isn't always black-and-white. I don't think there are many that dispute that Pioli has been a major disappointment in 2009. But the "evidence" that he won't get better in 2010 is basically opinion. It's an opinion about a future event. And right now, the only evidence is what Pioli has done in one season when he didn't have nearly the same extent of resources that he has right now. Any suggestion for how good/bad Pioli will be in 2010 is an opinion, because it is based on very minimal evidence.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-16-2009, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

I dont understand the hatred for Vince Young either. That kid has taken his team on his back twice and ran them into the playoffs (if they make it this year.) He has single-handedly taken over games with his athleticism and is growing as all young qbs do. His ability to be elusive late in games has won many games that wouldnt have been wins otherwise.

Uh, you might have mis-remembered, there.

Just because the media was determined to make him the greatest thing ever, doesn't mean he was.

The defense that year was responsible for a ridiculous number of points, and we're reason 1 why that team made the playoffs.

I vague remember a game where VY had thrown for under 100 yards, and a few INT's - and Tennessee won the game because they had 2-3 defensive TD's and/or a ST touchdown.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-16-2009, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don't think there are many that dispute that Pioli has been a major disappointment in 2009.

Really? Look around, man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

But the "evidence" that he won't get better in 2010 is basically opinion.

Who's saying he WILL NOT get better?

There's a big difference between saying that his actions (or lack thereof) in 2009 wouldn't lead one to believe in a huge turnaround in 2010 - and flat-out saying, "NO WAY this guy get this thing on track."

I see a lot of people saying he BETTER get his head out of his ass, not that his head is absolutely going to stay firmly planted there.

Mecca · 12-16-2009, 06:05 PM

I just don't see how you can say we're making progress or anything like that when we obviously aren't.

12-14-2009, 11:24 AM
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2021115	Why people are disappointed: Exhibit A - Talent Evaluation Since there seems to be several myths, excuses and some flat-out lies about why some folks are pissed off about this team right now, I thought I'd put together a few threads explaining, as clearly as I can, where people are coming from. One of the bigger excuses is the infamous, "Pioli inherited a shitty team." Let me make this clear: I do not disagree. However, that doesn't excuse the Executive of the Decade for the team being no better now than it was this time last year - and you could make an argument that it is worse. And one of the reasons why this team still sucks is simple: The Executive of the Decade missed BADLY on talent evaluation. I just spent a few minutes researching the transactions Pioli has made since taking the job, and it's even worse than I originally thought. Counting draft picks, trades and signings, Pioli is responsible for FORTY FIVE new players to this organization. And of these 45, it's fair to say that only Succop and Chambers are clear upgrades to their predecessors. Two. Out of forty-five. That's a whopping 4% success rate. I'm sorry, but blaming Herm here is ridiculous. The best players on this team are Herm's players. Looking at the current roster - including the active roster, PS and IR - 54% of the players currently in this organization are Pioli's. Exactly half of the current starting 22 are Pioli's. And this team is ONE win better than a 2008 squad that featured Tyler ****ing Thigpen at QB, and employed Gunther Cunningham as the DC. With the majority being Pioli's hand-picked players. Let the excuses flow like fine wine. Discus. This ought to be fun - let's hit that Millionth post.
Posts: 60,758

12-16-2009, 05:26 PM	#467
BossChief SuperBowl or bust Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: BF Iowa Casino cash: $-1795912	Bowe+Crabtree=OMG Hali+Orakpo=OMG OMG! __________________ Dreams do come true... http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...postcount=1407
Posts: 47,909

12-16-2009, 06:05 PM	#480
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-782950	I just don't see how you can say we're making progress or anything like that when we obviously aren't.
Posts: 115,406