Chiefs Whitlock: Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back? - Page 9

**Tribal Warfare** · 12-20-2009, 11:17 PM

Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back?
By JASON WHITLOCK
The Kansas City Star

I’m not arguing that Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back.

Loyalty? Fairness?

You throw them overboard with the waiting list for season-ticket holders. Anyone arguing the Chiefs have made progress this season hasn’t heard about what happened inside Arrowhead Stadium on Sunday when the Cleveland Browns visited.

On a day when Cleveland quarterback Brady Quinn threw for 66 yards and two interceptions, the Browns rumbled for 351 yards on the ground and surpassed the 40-point barrier in a 41-34 victory over Haley’s Chiefs.

Keep in mind, the Browns are in the process of wooing Mike Holmgren to take over their organization and can embattled head coach Eric “Dead Man Coaching” Mangini. The Browns are bad. The Chiefs are worse.

It took a total team effort to give Cleveland a road victory.

“When you allow two returns for touchdowns, that’s generally not going to end up being a good thing,” Haley said, scolding the special-teams unit that allowed Josh Cribbs to find the end zone twice on kickoff returns.

“When you drop nine balls, and we had 39 to 40 by the NFL’s count going into this game — 50-plus by my count — it’s going to be very difficult,” Haley said, scolding his receivers for their inability to catch.

“When you allow a team to run the football the way they were able to run the football, you’re not going to have much of a chance to win,” Haley said, scolding a defensive unit that has surrendered 800-plus rushing yards in its last three games at Arrowhead Stadium.

That’s all three units, folks. Special teams. Offense. And defense.

It’s Christmas, and all three phases of Haley’s team are in disarray.

We’ve spent so much time focusing on the shortcomings within Kansas City’s roster, we’ve failed to mention that it’s likely Haley will overhaul his entire coaching staff, too.

You think Clancy Pendergast is coming back as defensive coordinator after some kid named Jerome Harrison gained 286 yards and finished 10 yards shy of the NFL’s all-time rushing record? We know Haley is a hothead. He booted his most qualified assistant (Chan Gailey) before the season. He’s already demoted a receivers coach. He benches receivers when his mood dictates.

Come on, you know Haley’s instincts will tell him to fire everyone except his wingman, Maurice Carthon. Haley can argue that he got this head-coaching position so late last offseason that he was unable to lure top-flight assistants.

Will top assistants want to come work for Haley this offseason? Let’s don’t even deal with the damage Haley has done to his reputation with his wild-man coaching routine and his handling of Gailey. Why would a top assistant come to KC when Haley is going to enter next season on the hot seat?

You know who would come? A coach with ties to Scott Pioli; a coach who thinks he could be the interim head coach if Haley gets fired six weeks into the season. Charlie Weis. Romeo Crennel.

Yes, more of the Patriots Way. A continuation of the flawed philosophy that you can export a winning culture from one city to another. Winning produces its own unique culture wherever it lands.

Let me get back on topic. I’m not saying Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back.

Mike Shanahan appears to be headed to Washington. Mike Holmgren apparently is going to take over Cleveland’s front office. Bill Cowher might rejoin the coaching ranks. The Chiefs are going to stand pat with Haley?

What has he shown us that gives us confidence he’ll hire a competent coaching staff? And if the Chiefs are going to be starting over with a new assistant-coaching staff, why not just start all the way over with a new head coach?

I did not say fire Todd Haley. I’m searching for reasons to bring him back. Right now, loyalty and fairness come to mind.

Scott Pioli stuck Haley with a craptastic roster. The stupidity of playing all season with special-team players masquerading as starting linebackers and safeties has caught up with the Chiefs the last month. And so has playing musical waiver wire at receiver.

Haley’s defenders can argue quite persuasively that he hasn’t been given a fair shot. Haley’s critics could argue that Haley has made a bad situation worse.

I’m not arguing anything. And I’m cool with Haley coming back ... as long as he realizes he has to make a boatload of fundamental changes to his coaching approach.

Coogs · 12-21-2009, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Wow, you REALLY don't get it, do you?

First off, Barry Richardson is a second year player. He started 40 games at Clemson at left tackle. The Chiefs moved him to right tackle. He has IDEAL SIZE for a right tackle at 6'6, 325 pounds. I don't give a FLYING **** if he wasn't the the "best" right tackle when training camp broke. He has the most UPSIDE and clearly the most potential out of all the broke-dick ****S they stuck out there. The Chiefs weren't going ANYWHERE this season, which is why you put your best and youngest players on the field and let them GROW TOGETHER.

Instead, it took Haley 14 WEEKS to put the best offensive line on the field. That's ABSURD.

As to Bradley, SO ****ING WHAT? He dropped some passes. Big ****ing DEAL. The guy has been used so sparingly, what did you expect? He is the second most talented receiver on the Chiefs squad. To SIT him for 10 weeks for not getting a first down is, once again, ABSURD. The guy SHOULD HAVE BEEN on the field each and every week. Why? Because his presence gives the Chiefs the BEST CHANCE TO WIN. Regardless of drops.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-21-2009, 01:11 PM

Cam Cameron, 2008. One year, 1-15. Fired.

Lane Kiffin, 2007. One year, 4-12. Fired.

Art Shell, 2006. One year, 2-14. Fired.

Marty Schottenheimer, 2001. One year, 8-8. Fired.

Eric Mangini, 2009. One year, 3-11. Very likely to be fired.

It's been done before, and I'd have no problem if it happened to Haley.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-21-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

This is just one game but a great example of how devoid of talent teams like Chiefs, Rams and Lions are. Coaching just isn't that important with that talent.

Is the dumbest post contest still going on?

Coaching is MORE important when you have this level of talent.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 12-21-2009, 01:16 PM

This team doesn't need Vince Lombardi. It needs someone with ****ing common sense, and no one in this organization seems to have any.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 12-21-2009, 01:20 PM

Quote:

This is just one game but a great example of how devoid of talent teams like Chiefs, Rams and Lions are. Coaching just isn't that important with that talent.

Either I missed this in the read through, or my brain has developed the power to block out stupid shit like this while perusing the Planet.

RedThat · 12-21-2009, 01:28 PM

No use in stressing about it. Seriously. Whether you want the guy fired or not, we have no control over the situation. All we can do is hope for the best.

We can judge all we want, but one can differentiate between seeing things from a fans perspective compared to either a coaches or players perspective. These guys are in the thick of things, not us.

I don't know what goes on back there but I could only imagine that being a rookie head coach is no different then a newly hired employee on a job with no experience. If you have no experience you're gonna make your share of mistakes. It's inevitable. Obviously there are going to come times when you will not know what you are doing, THAT happens. It's all part of a learning process. He is trying to learn what its like to be a head coach. THATS ONE THING ALL TOGETHER!

Its all part of growth. Growing comes with mistakes. If you don't believe in that, then I don't know what to tell you. And I could only imagine how hard it is to be a head coach alone, in addition, you have a crappy roster to deal with. Sure, Todd Haley has made mistakes, a whole ton of them. But it seems like people want him crucified for it. Relax, he is a rookie. What do you expect? Bill Belicheck, Parcells. Complaining about not playing certain players is way out of our control. Plus the roster is devoid of talent as it is. I don't see any reason to complain about it. Our main focus should be on getting players, and not on the coaches. We should place our attention to getting good football players in here and not act and point fingers like its the coaches responsibility for everything that goes on. A lot of times we put too much focus on the coaches, in reality its the players that win the games. We've always complained about how coaches sucked from Gunther to Greg Robinson, etc...And what has that got us? ZERO! nothing..yup thats right..And did anyone happen to notice a specific trend going on? Why have the Chiefs sucked on defense all these years? Because coincedentally they didn't have enough good players. And, its the same thing today. A lot of people complain about Pendergast, but the bottomline is, the Chiefs don't have enough good players.

There are reasons why he is not playing some guys, who knows? Maybe he is trying to get a feel from the roster? I don't know. But we don't know why he is not playing guys. We think we do, but really we don't know what goes on back there and why he is playing certain guys or better yet what is running in his mind.

Chiefnj2 · 12-21-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Cam Cameron, 2008. One year, 1-15. Fired.

Lane Kiffin, 2007. One year, 4-12. Fired.

Art Shell, 2006. One year, 2-14. Fired.

Marty Schottenheimer, 2001. One year, 8-8. Fired.

Eric Mangini, 2009. One year, 3-11. Very likely to be fired.

It's been done before, and I'd have no problem if it happened to Haley.

Those moves worked really well for the Raiders and Skins.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-21-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Those moves worked really well for the Raiders and Skins.

I'm sure the shitty ownership has nothing to do with it.

Cavgrunt · 12-21-2009, 03:44 PM

Why would Cowher want to come back to KC for the mess this team is in. All he can do is harm his reputation. If they get better he get credit but does he need credit.

Brock · 12-21-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cavgrunt

Why would Cowher want to come back to KC for the mess this team is in. All he can do is harm his reputation. If they get better he get credit but does he need credit.

He wouldn't. He'll get his choice of any job he wants.

RedThat · 12-21-2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Those moves worked really well for the Raiders and Skins.

Its funny how the Raiders and Skins have a lot of turnover within their organization, and don't have much to show for.

It really shows how "constant change" can be a bad thing.

Spott · 12-21-2009, 04:34 PM

Keeping Haley is a waste of time. He hasn't improved this team one bit and is in way over his head. There are plenty of better coaches out there that will just go by the wasteside if they keep Haley around next year.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-21-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedThat

Its funny how the Raiders and Skins have a lot of turnover within their organization, and don't have much to show for.

It really shows how "constant change" can be a bad thing.

It also shows how meddlesome, know-nothing owners can **** up a franchise.

I can count the number of good decisions Snyder and Davis have made this decade on both hands.

Don't act like firing those coaches one year in ruined everything.

ChiefsCountry · 12-21-2009, 05:09 PM

I am almost ready to hop on the Cowher bandwagon - Pioli isn't building a dyntasy or Super Bowl winner, might as well be 10-6 each year and get lucky every other.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 12-21-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

It also shows how meddlesome, know-nothing owners can **** up a franchise.

I can count the number of good decisions Snyder and Davis have made this decade on both hands.

Don't act like firing those coaches one year in ruined everything.

No no no no no, "slow and steady" wins the Carl/Herm.

12-20-2009, 11:17 PM
Tribal Warfare Man of Culture Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $-2997187	Whitlock: Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back? Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back? By JASON WHITLOCK The Kansas City Star I’m not arguing that Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back. Loyalty? Fairness? You throw them overboard with the waiting list for season-ticket holders. Anyone arguing the Chiefs have made progress this season hasn’t heard about what happened inside Arrowhead Stadium on Sunday when the Cleveland Browns visited. On a day when Cleveland quarterback Brady Quinn threw for 66 yards and two interceptions, the Browns rumbled for 351 yards on the ground and surpassed the 40-point barrier in a 41-34 victory over Haley’s Chiefs. Keep in mind, the Browns are in the process of wooing Mike Holmgren to take over their organization and can embattled head coach Eric “Dead Man Coaching” Mangini. The Browns are bad. The Chiefs are worse. It took a total team effort to give Cleveland a road victory. “When you allow two returns for touchdowns, that’s generally not going to end up being a good thing,” Haley said, scolding the special-teams unit that allowed Josh Cribbs to find the end zone twice on kickoff returns. “When you drop nine balls, and we had 39 to 40 by the NFL’s count going into this game — 50-plus by my count — it’s going to be very difficult,” Haley said, scolding his receivers for their inability to catch. “When you allow a team to run the football the way they were able to run the football, you’re not going to have much of a chance to win,” Haley said, scolding a defensive unit that has surrendered 800-plus rushing yards in its last three games at Arrowhead Stadium. That’s all three units, folks. Special teams. Offense. And defense. It’s Christmas, and all three phases of Haley’s team are in disarray. We’ve spent so much time focusing on the shortcomings within Kansas City’s roster, we’ve failed to mention that it’s likely Haley will overhaul his entire coaching staff, too. You think Clancy Pendergast is coming back as defensive coordinator after some kid named Jerome Harrison gained 286 yards and finished 10 yards shy of the NFL’s all-time rushing record? We know Haley is a hothead. He booted his most qualified assistant (Chan Gailey) before the season. He’s already demoted a receivers coach. He benches receivers when his mood dictates. Come on, you know Haley’s instincts will tell him to fire everyone except his wingman, Maurice Carthon. Haley can argue that he got this head-coaching position so late last offseason that he was unable to lure top-flight assistants. Will top assistants want to come work for Haley this offseason? Let’s don’t even deal with the damage Haley has done to his reputation with his wild-man coaching routine and his handling of Gailey. Why would a top assistant come to KC when Haley is going to enter next season on the hot seat? You know who would come? A coach with ties to Scott Pioli; a coach who thinks he could be the interim head coach if Haley gets fired six weeks into the season. Charlie Weis. Romeo Crennel. Yes, more of the Patriots Way. A continuation of the flawed philosophy that you can export a winning culture from one city to another. Winning produces its own unique culture wherever it lands. Let me get back on topic. I’m not saying Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back. Mike Shanahan appears to be headed to Washington. Mike Holmgren apparently is going to take over Cleveland’s front office. Bill Cowher might rejoin the coaching ranks. The Chiefs are going to stand pat with Haley? What has he shown us that gives us confidence he’ll hire a competent coaching staff? And if the Chiefs are going to be starting over with a new assistant-coaching staff, why not just start all the way over with a new head coach? I did not say fire Todd Haley. I’m searching for reasons to bring him back. Right now, loyalty and fairness come to mind. Scott Pioli stuck Haley with a craptastic roster. The stupidity of playing all season with special-team players masquerading as starting linebackers and safeties has caught up with the Chiefs the last month. And so has playing musical waiver wire at receiver. Haley’s defenders can argue quite persuasively that he hasn’t been given a fair shot. Haley’s critics could argue that Haley has made a bad situation worse. I’m not arguing anything. And I’m cool with Haley coming back ... as long as he realizes he has to make a boatload of fundamental changes to his coaching approach.
Posts: 43,454

12-21-2009, 01:11 PM	#122
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2051115	Cam Cameron, 2008. One year, 1-15. Fired. Lane Kiffin, 2007. One year, 4-12. Fired. Art Shell, 2006. One year, 2-14. Fired. Marty Schottenheimer, 2001. One year, 8-8. Fired. Eric Mangini, 2009. One year, 3-11. Very likely to be fired. It's been done before, and I'd have no problem if it happened to Haley.
Posts: 60,758

12-21-2009, 01:16 PM	#124
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7129572	This team doesn't need Vince Lombardi. It needs someone with ****ing common sense, and no one in this organization seems to have any. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 75,083

12-21-2009, 01:28 PM	#126
RedThat Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Earth Casino cash: $10004900	No use in stressing about it. Seriously. Whether you want the guy fired or not, we have no control over the situation. All we can do is hope for the best. We can judge all we want, but one can differentiate between seeing things from a fans perspective compared to either a coaches or players perspective. These guys are in the thick of things, not us. I don't know what goes on back there but I could only imagine that being a rookie head coach is no different then a newly hired employee on a job with no experience. If you have no experience you're gonna make your share of mistakes. It's inevitable. Obviously there are going to come times when you will not know what you are doing, THAT happens. It's all part of a learning process. He is trying to learn what its like to be a head coach. THATS ONE THING ALL TOGETHER! Its all part of growth. Growing comes with mistakes. If you don't believe in that, then I don't know what to tell you. And I could only imagine how hard it is to be a head coach alone, in addition, you have a crappy roster to deal with. Sure, Todd Haley has made mistakes, a whole ton of them. But it seems like people want him crucified for it. Relax, he is a rookie. What do you expect? Bill Belicheck, Parcells. Complaining about not playing certain players is way out of our control. Plus the roster is devoid of talent as it is. I don't see any reason to complain about it. Our main focus should be on getting players, and not on the coaches. We should place our attention to getting good football players in here and not act and point fingers like its the coaches responsibility for everything that goes on. A lot of times we put too much focus on the coaches, in reality its the players that win the games. We've always complained about how coaches sucked from Gunther to Greg Robinson, etc...And what has that got us? ZERO! nothing..yup thats right..And did anyone happen to notice a specific trend going on? Why have the Chiefs sucked on defense all these years? Because coincedentally they didn't have enough good players. And, its the same thing today. A lot of people complain about Pendergast, but the bottomline is, the Chiefs don't have enough good players. There are reasons why he is not playing some guys, who knows? Maybe he is trying to get a feel from the roster? I don't know. But we don't know why he is not playing guys. We think we do, but really we don't know what goes on back there and why he is playing certain guys or better yet what is running in his mind.
Posts: 6,666

12-21-2009, 03:44 PM	#129
Cavgrunt Rookie Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: missouri Casino cash: $10004900	Why would Cowher want to come back to KC for the mess this team is in. All he can do is harm his reputation. If they get better he get credit but does he need credit.
Posts: 17

12-21-2009, 04:34 PM	#132
Spott Court Jester Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Orlando Casino cash: $-827600	Keeping Haley is a waste of time. He hasn't improved this team one bit and is in way over his head. There are plenty of better coaches out there that will just go by the wasteside if they keep Haley around next year.
Posts: 20,698

12-21-2009, 05:09 PM	#134
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $-1591248	I am almost ready to hop on the Cowher bandwagon - Pioli isn't building a dyntasy or Super Bowl winner, might as well be 10-6 each year and get lucky every other.
Posts: 52,140