Whitlock: Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back?

[Tribal Warfare]

Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back?
By JASON WHITLOCK
The Kansas City Star

I’m not arguing that Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back.

Loyalty? Fairness?

You throw them overboard with the waiting list for season-ticket holders. Anyone arguing the Chiefs have made progress this season hasn’t heard about what happened inside Arrowhead Stadium on Sunday when the Cleveland Browns visited.

On a day when Cleveland quarterback Brady Quinn threw for 66 yards and two interceptions, the Browns rumbled for 351 yards on the ground and surpassed the 40-point barrier in a 41-34 victory over Haley’s Chiefs.

Keep in mind, the Browns are in the process of wooing Mike Holmgren to take over their organization and can embattled head coach Eric “Dead Man Coaching” Mangini. The Browns are bad. The Chiefs are worse.

It took a total team effort to give Cleveland a road victory.

“When you allow two returns for touchdowns, that’s generally not going to end up being a good thing,” Haley said, scolding the special-teams unit that allowed Josh Cribbs to find the end zone twice on kickoff returns.

“When you drop nine balls, and we had 39 to 40 by the NFL’s count going into this game — 50-plus by my count — it’s going to be very difficult,” Haley said, scolding his receivers for their inability to catch.

“When you allow a team to run the football the way they were able to run the football, you’re not going to have much of a chance to win,” Haley said, scolding a defensive unit that has surrendered 800-plus rushing yards in its last three games at Arrowhead Stadium.

That’s all three units, folks. Special teams. Offense. And defense.

It’s Christmas, and all three phases of Haley’s team are in disarray.

We’ve spent so much time focusing on the shortcomings within Kansas City’s roster, we’ve failed to mention that it’s likely Haley will overhaul his entire coaching staff, too.

You think Clancy Pendergast is coming back as defensive coordinator after some kid named Jerome Harrison gained 286 yards and finished 10 yards shy of the NFL’s all-time rushing record? We know Haley is a hothead. He booted his most qualified assistant (Chan Gailey) before the season. He’s already demoted a receivers coach. He benches receivers when his mood dictates.

Come on, you know Haley’s instincts will tell him to fire everyone except his wingman, Maurice Carthon. Haley can argue that he got this head-coaching position so late last offseason that he was unable to lure top-flight assistants.

Will top assistants want to come work for Haley this offseason? Let’s don’t even deal with the damage Haley has done to his reputation with his wild-man coaching routine and his handling of Gailey. Why would a top assistant come to KC when Haley is going to enter next season on the hot seat?

You know who would come? A coach with ties to Scott Pioli; a coach who thinks he could be the interim head coach if Haley gets fired six weeks into the season. Charlie Weis. Romeo Crennel.

Yes, more of the Patriots Way. A continuation of the flawed philosophy that you can export a winning culture from one city to another. Winning produces its own unique culture wherever it lands.

Let me get back on topic. I’m not saying Todd Haley should be fired. I’m wondering what’s the justification for bringing him back.

Mike Shanahan appears to be headed to Washington. Mike Holmgren apparently is going to take over Cleveland’s front office. Bill Cowher might rejoin the coaching ranks. The Chiefs are going to stand pat with Haley?

What has he shown us that gives us confidence he’ll hire a competent coaching staff? And if the Chiefs are going to be starting over with a new assistant-coaching staff, why not just start all the way over with a new head coach?

I did not say fire Todd Haley. I’m searching for reasons to bring him back. Right now, loyalty and fairness come to mind.

Scott Pioli stuck Haley with a craptastic roster. The stupidity of playing all season with special-team players masquerading as starting linebackers and safeties has caught up with the Chiefs the last month. And so has playing musical waiver wire at receiver.

Haley’s defenders can argue quite persuasively that he hasn’t been given a fair shot. Haley’s critics could argue that Haley has made a bad situation worse.

I’m not arguing anything. And I’m cool with Haley coming back ... as long as he realizes he has to make a boatload of fundamental changes to his coaching approach.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Studebaker found himself in the right place, at the right time. Now he's a hero? Come on guys. He has no pass rush moves yet. He gets pushed back at the LOS.

He's a 6th rounder from a Division III school. On a shit team like the Chiefs, who have absolutely no playoff hopes and whose primary mission SHOULD BE to find and build a youthful core of players, Mike Vrabel should be no where near the field except in the event of injury.

That's what is SO damn confusing about the direction of the current Chiefs:

There IS no direction.

PERIOD.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

No. I wouldn't say those things.

1. The continued improvement of our CB's. If we could add an Eric Berry to that mix and get Page healthy again, that's a pretty damn good secondary. I agree

2. Hali has been a good surprise. Is he a Pro Bowler? No. But we can win with him. He went from being a bust last season, to a player we can with this season. I agree

3. We have found some decent depth at LB. None of our ILB's are starters. But, Belcher and Mays provide decent depth. Studebaker looks like a solid OLB in the making, but he gets pushed around at the LOS. Maybe another offseason to build some bulk and work on technique will help with that. If we can add a starter from the draft and a decent starter F/A this offseason, we could be looking at a strong LB unit. I dont think any of our current LBers end up as longterm starters here except Hali. We need three starting linebackers

4. Haley's scheme looks pretty damn good. The execution and his game management, not so much. BUT, you can start to see what he wants to do with the offense. Now, he needs some better players and they need more practice, and we may be seeing the offense begin to blossom. after the first sentence, I thought you were about to go full reerun...glad you didnt, I somewhat agree with your statement there except the first sentence.

5. We have found a great back in Charles. I know, i know, he didn't start right away. But it's not like he wasn't getting used. Haley was looking for ways to get him the ball. LJ was a 2-down back with JC coming in at 3rd down. And to JC's credit, he has been getting better each week. But, so has our O-Line. this really isnt a credit to Haley though, IMHO Charles is excelling in spite of Haley so far, not because of him.

6. Our O-Line. They are starting to gel. They look like they understand there assignments. The start of the season, they didn't even know who they were suppose to block. They look like they know now. Albert continues to grow. I see a solid LT that is quick enough to run trap plays and screens. And you know that is what Haley wants to do. Maybe the reason why we didn't see a guy Like Richardson early, is because he wasn't ready. Callaghan and Ndukwe are young O-linemen that got in early. So, Haley is willing to play young O-linemen. Starting to ****ing jel? **** NO THEY ARENT! Albert is the only linemen that has improved at all all year. Just because we just played the Borwns and Bills, doesnt mean "the line is jelling"
7. Chris Chambers. Now we have a vertical threat. Add a Golden Tate or someone with a like skill set to that mix....Now we have a soild WR core Chris Chambers is old and has another year, or MAYBE 2 if we are lucky, and his attitude doesnt go into the shitter like it has at previous teams after a good first year.

There are things to be excited about. There are some positives. Pioli has a great track record for finding F/A's. That shit doesn't just disappear overnight. As long as they don't out think themselves in the Draft (tyson Jackson) Pioli will be alright. IF our GM has it together, then wins will come.

We have some pieces in place. Shit is starting to take mold. We can all go on for days about what they did wrong, but why?

I see where you are coming from, but it seems to me that you are looking for reasons to be positive instead of looking at it fully objectively. Maybe Im of base and I am letting the losing effect my ability to be objective because I am starting to presume the worst because that is what we have had to deal with recently.

I hope we made the right choices and that a lot of this first year is chalked up to a total flush of a season to begin with in retrospect a couple years from now.

time will tell

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

1. Um you DO realize that Flowers, Carr, Charles Studebaker, etc. were already on the squad, right?

2. Hali is NO surprise: He is what he's ALWAYS been: An average pass rusher and completely useless against the run.

3. Haley's a completely bumble**** when it comes to evaluating the offensive line. Rudy Niswanger? Are you ****ing kidding me? Wade Smith is 10x the center as Niswanger. Play Nsukwe out of position at Right Tackle was a good thing? Starting O'C over Richardson was a good thing? JFC.

4. Chris Chambers is 31 years old and he'll be 32 to start the season. Who knows if he'll chose to return but firstly, he's not a long term solution and secondly, the wheels could fall off at any second. Plus, he's got a serious domestic situation to deal with.

I don't see anything here that you've stated that makes me believe that Todd Haley is a competent coach worthy of returning.

1. Just because they were on the squad, doesn't mean they haven't improved. What did JC prove last season? What did Studebaker do last season? And the question wasn't whether or not there was pre-existing talent, the question was if there was anything to be positive about. I told you, yet you continue to be negative.

2. Hali is a surprise. Did you honestly believe he would see success transitioning into the 3-4? Really? No one here did. Obviously he has his weaknesses. BUT, like i said, we can win with him. As i said, he is no pro-bowler, but TH will not be the reason we loose games.

3. Rudy has been improving. We have plenty of potential RG's right now. At the time we needed a RT. Ndukwe was asked to fill that need. he failed at it. Why start him at RG when we have better RG prospects? And do you seriously not remember how bad Richardson was? He was awful, and then after 1 game against the Browns he is better than O'C? Come on man, at least let's see him play another start before declaring him the best RT on the team.

4. So what if he is turning 32. The dude can play. He is a stop gap, but a good one. We can win with him. He has opened things up for this offense and there is plenty of reason to believe that he can carry that over. He is a playmaker, and we will ride him till his wheels fall off, same way we did Kennison. You're choosing to look at the glass half emptey. That's on you, dude.

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by BossChief

If Carl Peterson didnt trade Jared Allen (who had his most production under TK)

Better check these stats out. He still has 2 games left this season.

http://www.nfl.com/players/jaredalle...e?id=ALL454745

[ChiefUp]

come on you cant fire Haley you just got ride of Herm after 3 years of crap then yas give the team to Haley who had a team of no talent hacks to start with and now with one more win then we would of had under Herm this year you guys want to scrap him and start all over I mean how long do yas want to be rebuilding

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by BossChief

I see where you are coming from, but it seems to me that you are looking for reasons to be positive instead of looking at it fully objectively. Maybe Im of base and I am letting the losing effect my ability to be objective because I am starting to presume the worst because that is what we have had to deal with recently.

I hope we made the right choices and that a lot of this first year is chalked up to a total flush of a season to begin with in retrospect a couple years from now.

time will tell

Im trying to look at it objectivly. I could put together a list that's just as long about how this team is ****ed. But why?

WE ALL KNOW what is wrong with this team. It's no secret. Some people just want to say that there is nothing to look forward too. I see things that we can build upon.

People wanna say that im full of "ifs" and "Maybe's", well that's all we have right now if we want to look towards the future.

IF, that's right, IF we draft Eric Berry, how much better is our secondary? How many of those long runs and deep passes occur with Berry and Page in the lineup?

IF we can land an ILB in the draft, ala Cinnci, and sign a Hampton or Wilfork, how much better is our front 7?

IF we can add a Golden Tate in the second, or sign one in the offseason, how much better are our WR's?

I really don't think there is a fixing of Cassel, i don't Think Haley can be fixed either. They are what they are. But, im reserving hope. What else can we do?

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by ChiefUp

come on you cant fire Haley you just got ride of Herm after 3 years of crap then yas give the team to Haley who had a team of no talent hacks to start with and now with one more win then we would of had under Herm this year you guys want to scrap him and start all over I mean how long do yas want to be rebuilding

I'm not so sure about that anymore. All of the players that are doing any thing good are the ones Herm brought in. It would have been interesting to see what Herm would have done in the off-season compared to what the new regime has done.

Damn! I can't believe I just typed that! I may have to go have a drink or two just because.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

1. Just because they were on the squad, doesn't mean they haven't improved. What did JC prove last season? What did Studebaker do last season? And the question wasn't whether or not there was pre-existing talent, the question was if there was anything to be positive about. I told you, yet you continue to be negative.

Are you ****ING KIDDING ME? Charles contributed a SHIT TON last year, when he was HEALTHY. Unfortunately, he had issues all year long with his hamstring.

JFC, you act like all of the sudden, after 4 years of college and one in the NFL, the guy woke up and was a good back.

And Studebaker? Again, do you know ANYTHING about these Chiefs? Studebaker was signed LATE in the season off of Philly's practice squad. He's a DIVISION III PLAYER. Not D-I, not D-IA, not D-II. Division THREE. And he was only with the Chiefs for their final 6 games.

****!

Originally Posted by Detoxing

2. Hali is a surprise. Did you honestly believe he would see success transitioning into the 3-4? Really? No one here did. Obviously he has his weaknesses. BUT, like i said, we can win with him. As i said, he is no pro-bowler, but TH will not be the reason we loose games.

His numbers are nearly IDENTICAL to his numbers as a DE. And apparently, you didn't watch the Cleveland game because were do you think those 300 rushing yards came from?

Oh, that's right: Running over Tamba Hali!

Originally Posted by Detoxing

3. Rudy has been improving.

Rudy sucks ass. Unreal

Originally Posted by Detoxing

We have plenty of potential RG's right now. At the time we needed a RT. Ndukwe was asked to fill that need. he failed at it. Why start him at RG when we have better RG prospects? And do you seriously not remember how bad Richardson was? He was awful, and then after 1 game against the Browns he is better than O'C? Come on man, at least let's see him play another start before declaring him the best RT on the team.

You're so ****ing full of shit. Seriously.

Potential right guards? First off, Wade Smith is THE BEST center, right guard, left guard and right tackle on this football team, bar none. Why he wasn't playing, let alone starting is ****ing beyond my comprehension. More proof that Haley can't evaluate talent.

Secondly, Nsukwe started 15 games at right guard last year for the Dolphins, yet the Chiefs played him out of position for weeks at right tackle. More proof of poor talent evaluation.

Richardson? Are you joking? When he filled in for Albert at left tackle, he did a tremendous job. The Browns had EIGHT SACKS of Rothlisberger yet one of Cassel with Richardson on the right side AND the running game was much improved.

If you can't see that, then you might as well stop posting.

Originally Posted by Detoxing

4. So what if he is turning 32. The dude can play. He is a stop gap, but a good one. We can win with him. He has opened things up for this offense and there is plenty of reason to believe that he can carry that over. He is a playmaker, and we will ride him till his wheels fall off, same way we did Kennison. You're choosing to look at the glass half emptey. That's on you, dude.

You're choosing to compare his career to Eddie Kennison's, just like some people are choosing to compare Cassel's to Green's.

Well, that shit don't fly.

First off, Chambers numbers have been steadily declining due to injury and age. He has legal issues and marriage issues stemming with an affair with a 25 year-old girl, which is why he was cut by San Diego. She's been charged with 11 misdemeanors. Furthermore, there is absolutely NO guarantee that he'll even want to return and quite honestly, I'd hate to see him get a contract and revert to his lame ass ways in San Diego.

This team should be focused on developing YOUTH, not rehabbing old ****S.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Coogs

Better check these stats out. He still has 2 games left this season.

http://www.nfl.com/players/jaredalle...e?id=ALL454745

I was talking about his time in KC. I should have specified that but it didnt enhance my side of the conversation.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Are you ****ING KIDDING ME? Charles contributed a SHIT TON last year, when he was HEALTHY. Unfortunately, he had issues all year long with his hamstring.

JFC, you act like all of the sudden, after 4 years of college and one in the NFL, the guy woke up and was a good back.

And Studebaker? Again, do you know ANYTHING about these Chiefs? Studebaker was signed LATE in the season off of Philly's practice squad. He's a DIVISION III PLAYER. Not D-I, not D-IA, not D-II. Division THREE. And he was only with the Chiefs for their final 6 games.

****!





His numbers are nearly IDENTICAL to his numbers as a DE. And apparently, you didn't watch the Cleveland game because were do you think those 300 rushing yards came from?

Oh, that's right: Running over Tamba Hali!



Rudy sucks ass. Unreal



You're so ****ing full of shit. Seriously.

Potential right guards? First off, Wade Smith is THE BEST center, right guard, left guard and right tackle on this football team, bar none. Why he wasn't playing, let alone starting is ****ing beyond my comprehension. More proof that Haley can't evaluate talent.

Secondly, Nsukwe started 15 games at right guard last year for the Dolphins, yet the Chiefs played him out of position for weeks at right tackle. More proof of poor talent evaluation.

Richardson? Are you joking? When he filled in for Albert at left tackle, he did a tremendous job. The Browns had EIGHT SACKS of Rothlisberger yet one of Cassel with Richardson on the right side AND the running game was much improved.

If you can't see that, then you might as well stop posting.




You're choosing to compare his career to Eddie Kennison's, just like some people are choosing to compare Cassel's to Green's.

Well, that shit don't fly.

First off, Chambers numbers have been steadily declining due to injury and age. He has legal issues and marriage issues stemming with an affair with a 25 year-old girl, which is why he was cut by San Diego. She's been charged with 11 misdemeanors. Furthermore, there is absolutely NO guarantee that he'll even want to return and quite honestly, I'd hate to see him get a contract and revert to his lame ass ways in San Diego.

This team should be focused on developing YOUTH, not rehabbing old ****S.

Damn, you REALLY dont like it when people disagree with your opinions huh?

Geez Dane, cant a guy have hope anymore?

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Are you ****ING KIDDING ME? Charles contributed a SHIT TON last year, when he was HEALTHY. Unfortunately, he had issues all year long with his hamstring.

JFC, you act like all of the sudden, after 4 years of college and one in the NFL, the guy woke up and was a good back.

And Studebaker? Again, do you know ANYTHING about these Chiefs? Studebaker was signed LATE in the season off of Philly's practice squad. He's a DIVISION III PLAYER. Not D-I, not D-IA, not D-II. Division THREE. And he was only with the Chiefs for their final 6 games.

****!




His numbers are nearly IDENTICAL to his numbers as a DE. And apparently, you didn't watch the Cleveland game because were do you think those 300 rushing yards came from?

Oh, that's right: Running over Tamba Hali!



Rudy sucks ass. Unreal



You're so ****ing full of shit. Seriously.

Potential right guards? First off, Wade Smith is THE BEST center, right guard, left guard and right tackle on this football team, bar none. Why he wasn't playing, let alone starting is ****ing beyond my comprehension. More proof that Haley can't evaluate talent.

Secondly, Nsukwe started 15 games at right guard last year for the Dolphins, yet the Chiefs played him out of position for weeks at right tackle. More proof of poor talent evaluation.

Richardson? Are you joking? When he filled in for Albert at left tackle, he did a tremendous job. The Browns had EIGHT SACKS of Rothlisberger yet one of Cassel with Richardson on the right side AND the running game was much improved.

If you can't see that, then you might as well stop posting.




You're choosing to compare his career to Eddie Kennison's, just like some people are choosing to compare Cassel's to Green's.

Well, that shit don't fly.

First off, Chambers numbers have been steadily declining due to injury and age. He has legal issues and marriage issues stemming with an affair with a 25 year-old girl, which is why he was cut by San Diego. She's been charged with 11 misdemeanors. Furthermore, there is absolutely NO guarantee that he'll even want to return and quite honestly, I'd hate to see him get a contract and revert to his lame ass ways in San Diego.

This team should be focused on developing YOUTH, not rehabbing old ****S.

Dude, take a chill pill man, you get so worked up over nothing.

Anyhow.......How many big plays did Charles have last year vs this year? You going to tell me he isn't an improving player? And Studebaker, once again you claim he was a talent from last year. Last year, he proved nothing. You saying that he was a DIV III player only reiterates that he is improving, which is exactly what i said.......JFC GRRRR ARRRR! AHHHH!!!Im so Mad YOU ****ING IDIOT ARRR!!!

Regarding Tamba: I never said he was a great player. But you seem to act like i said that. And yeah, they were running over Gilberry and the rook. How come no one runs 300+ yrds over him when Dorsey is in the game? You're just reaching for shit to argue with me about now. Face it dude, Hali is not a bad player, we can win with Hali. Accept it. Its ok.

And you claiming that Wade Smith is a good RG only reiterates what i was saying about Ndukwe. We needed him to play RT, because we already have guys that can play RG. And who is the best RT, Richardson or Smith? make up your mind.

Oh, ahem, ARGHHHH LMFAO!!!

And im Chambers will get over his marriage issues. You act like he is the first player to ever have a divorce, JFC ARRGHHH

Arghh

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

He's a 6th rounder from a Division III school. On a shit team like the Chiefs, who have absolutely no playoff hopes and whose primary mission SHOULD BE to find and build a youthful core of players, Mike Vrabel should be no where near the field except in the event of injury.

That's what is SO damn confusing about the direction of the current Chiefs:

There IS no direction.

PERIOD.

yeah, damn those Chiefs for trying to win games. Lets not put our smartest OLB on the field in an effort to improve the play of the other 10 guys on the field for the sake of this DIV III guy.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Damn, you REALLY dont like it when people disagree with your opinions huh?

Geez Dane, cant a guy have hope anymore?

Hope all you want.

The facts are the facts.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

yeah, damn those Chiefs for trying to win games. Lets not put our smartest OLB on the field in an effort to improve the play of the other 10 guys on the field for the sake of this DIV III guy.

Exactly. Let's not.

Studebaker has been a playmaker, period.

Vrabel has not.

Studebaker is under contract for the next three years.

Vrabel isn't under contract next season.

Studebaker is 24 years old.

Vrabel is 33 years old.

There is absolutely NO REASON for Mike Vrabel to be on the field with a 3-11 football team when it's quite possible that the younger guy is a better player with far more potential.

It's indefensible.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Hope all you want.

The facts are the facts.

So what positives do you have about the current team right now? You have beaten CP to death with your pessimistic attacks day after day. If you are such an objective expert, i would like to see the positive side of your analysis. Honestly, not trying to be a dick, i really do.