Chiefs Bill Simmons on Tom Brady/Matt Cassel - Page 15

Hootie · 01-16-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

The Montreal Screw-Job Award for "Most Shocking Turn on a Beloved Figure"

I didn't call my father during the first half of the Baltimore beating. There was nothing to say. When you give up an 83-yard run to start a game against a team you know wants to run 40 times, you kinda know how it's going to turn out. We all knew the 2009 Patriots had a playoff stink bomb in them; just not in Round 1 at home. Anyway, I was too depressed to call him at halftime. After another Brady interception in the third quarter, my cell phone started vibrating. Yup, it was a text from my dad.

"We never should have traded Cassel."

(Ouch.)

RustShack · 01-16-2010, 10:49 PM

So Brady is the product of the system and talent... but Manning isn't?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 01-16-2010, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie

you don't think I know it was a tongue-in-cheek comment by Bill Simmons' dad?

I've read every piece of Bill Simmons literature for the last 8 years of my life.

Then perhaps you should re-read it, because the entire point of that excerpt is that

1) The fans shouldn't turn on Brady (hence the Montreal Screwjob reference)

and

2) His dad said it.

You completely missed the point, and decided to rant about how Simmons compared Brady to Cassel.

Nothing could be further from the truth, but it didn't stop you from creating this stupid ****ing thread.

RedThat · 01-16-2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Moon was a hell of QB, but top 5?

What hell is your dumb ass smoking?

Why not?

He has the numbers to show for that are right up there with the best. The only thing thats missing are superbowl rings. I bet if he won a few championships he'd have more of a reputation.

Once he was introduced to the run and shoot offense in houston, he flourished and I think he may have very well re-defined the quarterback position in a lot of ways during that era.

Mechanically speaking, I think he was the most polished quarterback I've ever seen. Once you combine that with the numbers, thats good enough to easily place him at the top.

Like I said, the only thing thats missing are the rings. Thats pretty much the hole in this argument. But if you want to compare his numbers, and his overall mechanics or attributes to the other great quarterbacks he can easily match or surpass them making him a top 5 quarterback.

**The Bad Guy** · 01-16-2010, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

So Brady is the product of the system and talent... but Manning isn't?

I don't think either are system guys, but Manning especially isn't.

The guy is a master. An absolute master.

milkman · 01-16-2010, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedThat

Why not?

He has the numbers to show for that are right up there with the best. The only thing thats missing are superbowl rings. I bet if he won a few championships he'd have more of a reputation.

Once he was introduced to the run and shoot offense in houston, he flourished and I think he may have very well re-defined the quarterback position in a lot of ways during that era.

Mechanically speaking, I think he was the most polished quarterback I've ever seen. Once you combine that with the numbers, thats good enough to easily place him at the top.

Like I said, the only thing thats missing are the rings. Thats pretty much the hole in this argument. But if you want to compare his numbers, and his overall mechanics or attributes to the other great quarterbacks he can easily match or surpass them making him a top 5 quarterback.

And yet, he and his Houston Oilers pissed away playoff opportunities, including giving up the largest lead in playoff history.

Great QBs with 35 point leads, even if his defense is giving up points by the boat load find a way to rally the troops and secure that win.

greatness isn't measured by stats or pretty mechanics alone.

Brock · 01-16-2010, 11:36 PM

Moon threw the prettiest interceptions I've ever seen.

RedThat · 01-17-2010, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

And yet, he and his Houston Oilers pissed away playoff opportunities, including giving up the largest lead in playoff history.

Great QBs with 35 point leads, even if his defense is giving up points by the boat load find a way to rally the troops and secure that win.

greatness isn't measured by stats or pretty mechanics alone.

Umm, sorry but I don't think this is a fair statement simply because I believe football is a team game. It's always going to involve more than one guy. Now, are you trying to say, you don't view Moon as a "great" leader like the other great quarterbacks?

I think it's the teams responsibilty to get together rally, perform at a high level and make all the plays necessary to win the game. Moon did his share to help his team win games, unfortunately the other guys around him didn't.

*The bottom portion of your post I can agree with, which leads me to ask you this question, what else do you believe a quarterback has to do to prove greatness?

milkman · 01-17-2010, 12:05 AM

Make plays when the game is on the line, and lead their teams to Championships.

And yes, great QBs are leaders that teams rally around.

DJ's left nut · 01-17-2010, 01:04 AM

The Patriots lost to the Ravens last week because of Tom Brady.

Not Randy Moss, not Matt Light, not Bill Belichick - Tom Brady. He played absolutely horrific football, put his team in a massive hole and played right into Baltimore's hands.

Manning simply played a competent game against an elite defense and his team won fairly easily. And when I said Manning wouldn't have taken the sack/strip like Brady did - time the brady sack against the Manning dump at the end of the 2nd half right before the TD. The situations were virtually identical, with Suggs blowing untouched around the LT and closing in the QBs blind-side. Manning felt the pressure and got the ball out, Brady didn't.

Manning is a better quarterback. He's a damn quarterbacking robot. It's virtually impossible to play the position better than he does yet some people simply refuse to acknowledge it. Those people are spending their time harping on the guy instead of realizing that the history books will likely refer to him as the greatest quarterback in NFL history when all is said and done. It's a shame, really.

I don't see much merit in the historical argument either, Mannings been the better QB over the course of their respective careers. However, I'll set that aside and acknowledge the 3 SBs point (even if I think it's crap) for the sake of mere discussion. That said, there's no argument whatsoever that Manning is presently the better QB. And I see very little debating who will be the better QB over the course of the remainder of their careers.

**BigMeatballDave** · 01-17-2010, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie

It just makes me happy as an avid fan of the NFL to see Brady finally looked upon as what he is...

A good QB who played in a great system with all of the right pieces and was the leader of a dynasty...

but not an all-time great.

You and however believes this is epically stupid.

**BigMeatballDave** · 01-17-2010, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC111110

All time great to me would mean top 3-5 of all time. I mean shit even Jim Kelly and Elway are in the hall, and they're nowhere near the top 5

Not really just top 3-5. Top 10-15 can be all-time.

**BigMeatballDave** · 01-17-2010, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The most damning evidence of Tom Brady as a truly historic QB is Matt Cassel.

We all saw how severely lacking Matt Cassel is this season, yet in the Patriots system he won 11 games and threw for 3700 yards.

I saw a system that inflates a QBs performance by a solid 10-20%.

I guess the question you have to ask is - could the Colts have ever gone 11-5 with Jim Sorgi?

Brady sits at 11 on my all-time QB list. And ultimately I will listen to any argument that puts Warner over him as well (best pure passer of my lifetime and a guy that would've been untouchable in that NE system). Brady's a HOFer and an elite QB, but the Peyton v. Manning debate is closed, it's no contest.

Do you really wanna be held in the same light as Hootie?

**BigMeatballDave** · 01-17-2010, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Kinda funny I expect the Ravens to beat the Colts....the Colts run D is garbage and Ray Rice well he's good.

Oops...

JD10367 · 01-17-2010, 08:02 AM

I'm a Patriots fan, and even I'm sick of reading this shit and seeing "Patriots, Patriots, Patriots" all over the place, LOL.

Cassel is decent.
Brady is excellent.
Hootie doesn't like Brady.
Some of you don't like Cassel, others want to give him more time.

I think that about covers it.

Quesadilla Joe · 01-17-2010, 08:35 AM

Josh McDaniels aka The QB GURU.

01-16-2010, 10:49 PM	#211
RustShack **** That Noise Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Jack Trice Casino cash: $3036954	So Brady is the product of the system and talent... but Manning isn't? __________________
Posts: 15,126

01-16-2010, 11:36 PM	#216
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	Moon threw the prettiest interceptions I've ever seen.
Posts: 47,314

01-17-2010, 12:05 AM	#218
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	Make plays when the game is on the line, and lead their teams to Championships. And yes, great QBs are leaders that teams rally around. __________________
Posts: 70,769

01-17-2010, 01:04 AM	#219
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-880901	The Patriots lost to the Ravens last week because of Tom Brady. Not Randy Moss, not Matt Light, not Bill Belichick - Tom Brady. He played absolutely horrific football, put his team in a massive hole and played right into Baltimore's hands. Manning simply played a competent game against an elite defense and his team won fairly easily. And when I said Manning wouldn't have taken the sack/strip like Brady did - time the brady sack against the Manning dump at the end of the 2nd half right before the TD. The situations were virtually identical, with Suggs blowing untouched around the LT and closing in the QBs blind-side. Manning felt the pressure and got the ball out, Brady didn't. Manning is a better quarterback. He's a damn quarterbacking robot. It's virtually impossible to play the position better than he does yet some people simply refuse to acknowledge it. Those people are spending their time harping on the guy instead of realizing that the history books will likely refer to him as the greatest quarterback in NFL history when all is said and done. It's a shame, really. I don't see much merit in the historical argument either, Mannings been the better QB over the course of their respective careers. However, I'll set that aside and acknowledge the 3 SBs point (even if I think it's crap) for the sake of mere discussion. That said, there's no argument whatsoever that Manning is presently the better QB. And I see very little debating who will be the better QB over the course of the remainder of their careers. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,871

01-17-2010, 08:02 AM	#224
JD10367 Cheaterlover* Join Date: May 2009 Location: RI Casino cash: $10010716	I'm a Patriots fan, and even I'm sick of reading this shit and seeing "Patriots, Patriots, Patriots" all over the place, LOL. Cassel is decent. Brady is excellent. Hootie doesn't like Brady. Some of you don't like Cassel, others want to give him more time. I think that about covers it.
Posts: 12,916

01-17-2010, 08:35 AM	#225
Quesadilla Joe Abolish The Salary Cap! Join Date: Mar 2008 Casino cash: $3408675	Josh McDaniels aka The QB GURU. __________________ “(Sean) Payton feels as strongly about Bo Nix as he did Mahomes.“ - Adam Schefter
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