GBN Report: 2010 SENIOR BOWL GAME REVIEW

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Jesus dude. I watched every game Hali and Graham played in college.. and though I am a big fan of Hali.. to equate the two takes a level of ingnorance that is ridiculous.

Let's break it down very simply... would you SERIOUSLY take Hali over Lamarr Woodley? (if so.. you may actually qualify as functionally reeruned...)... Graham is Woodley part 2... PERIOD. HE matured in the same system.. learned everything he could from Woodley.. is physicaly (minus 1 inch) the same man... and has similar stats... so, I ask again... would you take Hali over Woodley?

If you answer Hali you are either a moron or dishonest.

Oh, for Christ's sake...

Graham is not Woodley. Graham is Graham. He's not Hali, he's not Woodley, he is who he is. And he didn't mature into the same system. He is a product of Rodiguez's fun bunch defense that most likely won't be around...perhaps even next year. And I'm not blaming him for that...he's a nice player. But he's a short (by todays standard) defensive end that's never really been asked to do anything other than go get the quarterback. I won't go into why he isn't Lamaar because you won't hear it, and you'll probably get pissed about any Tamba Hali comparisons.

My take is that the guy wouldn't be capable of playing anything other than the rush ROLB spot, and doesn't give you anything more than Hali is already providing. Other than Flowers and Charles, Hali had the most successful year of any Chief and you want to replace him with a shorter version of himself that would be a rookie, with a rookie learning curve? *sigh*

You couldn't play Graham on the SAM side as he lacks the hip turn and backpedal and sideline to sideline burst...you might be able to get away with him as a Mike, but I doubt it as he'd be a liability in mid-zone coverage, so all he really could do in a 3-4 is the ROLB spot. And...eh, okay...let's draft him. Because Albert is doing well enough that he needs to stay at LT, but Hali had a craptasitic season so we should burn our first second round pick on a guy like Graham. Because of all positions on the Chiefs, Hali is the one guy that stands out as being a slackadasical pussbag that needs immediate replacement.

Super duper.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Oh, for Christ's sake...

Graham is not Woodley. Graham is Graham. He's not Hali, he's not Woodley, he is who he is. And he didn't mature into the same system. He is a product of Rodiguez's fun bunch defense that most likely won't be around...perhaps even next year. And I'm not blaming him for that...he's a nice player. But he's a short (by todays standard) defensive end that's never really been asked to do anything other than go get the quarterback. I won't go into why he isn't Lamaar because you won't hear it, and you'll probably get pissed about any Tamba Hali comparisons.

My take is that the guy wouldn't be capable of playing anything other than the rush ROLB spot, and doesn't give you anything more than Hali is already providing. Other than Flowers and Charles, Hali had the most successful year of any Chief and you want to replace him with a shorter version of himself that would be a rookie, with a rookie learning curve? *sigh*

You couldn't play Graham on the SAM side as he lacks the hip turn and backpedal and sideline to sideline burst...you might be able to get away with him as a Mike, but I doubt it as he'd be a liability in mid-zone coverage, so all he really could do in a 3-4 is the ROLB spot. And...eh, okay...let's draft him. Because Albert is doing well enough that he needs to stay at LT, but Hali had a craptasitic season so we should burn our first second round pick on a guy like Graham. Because of all positions on the Chiefs, Hali is the one guy that stands out as being a slackadasical pussbag that needs immediate replacement.

Super duper.

and, you obviously don't watch college football. bye.

There is so much ignorance in this post that I after this response I need to move to the next topic and hopefully not have to remind you of how idiotic you are being in this regard later.

To recap..

#1 his name is BRANDON Graham, not Daniel. ( I let this slide a few posts back)
#2 He spent his first year learning from Woodley... in a Lloyd Carr U-M team. And the next year under Carr again... (you REALLY don't watch college football do you?)
#3 What the **** is the Rich Rod "fun bunch" ? are you ****ing high? please elaborate upon this pulled out of your ass posit...
#4 you won't go into why he isn't Woodley because you CAN'T... please try... Woodley says Graham is Woodley, Graham says he is, damn near every scout says he is.. (except a few say he is Dumervil) ... his coaches say he is... but PLEASE explain why YOU know better than someone who has watched EVERY game both players have played(me) and every credible scout I have read.... if you have facts, tape, ANYTHING .. I'd love to hear it.
#5 your analysis of Graham is laughable at best... once again, please tell me which GAMES (not youtube clips) you have watched of him...

Lastly... IF you could pull your head out of your ass for a second and ADMIT that Graham is very likely a Woodley clone... can you HONESTLY say you wouldn't take Woodley(part 2) in a heartbeat with our 2a pick?(and feel you got a steal)

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

Lastly... IF you could pull your head out of your ass for a second and ADMIT that Graham is very likely a Woodley clone... can you HONESTLY say you wouldn't take Woodley(part 2) in a heartbeat with our 2a pick?(and feel you got a steal)

Why wouldn't you take a Lamarr Woodley with your round 1 pick? 10+ sacks a year when starting.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Why wouldn't you take a Lamarr Woodley with your round 1 pick? 10+ sacks a year when starting.

The question that needs to be answered first:

Could/would Lamar Woodley rack up 10+ sacks a year surrounded by the likes of our front 7?

[philfree]

[QUOTE=OnTheWarpath58;6516683]The question that needs to be answered first:

Could/would Lamar Woodley rack up 10+ sacks a year surrounded by the likes of our front 7?[/QUOTE

Well let's hope that we replace more than just one starter in our front seven. If we don't it won't be much different.

PhilFree

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

and, you obviously don't watch college football. bye.

There is so much ignorance in this post that I after this response I need to move to the next topic and hopefully not have to remind you of how idiotic you are being in this regard later.

To recap..

#1 his name is BRANDON Graham, not Daniel. ( I let this slide a few posts back)
#2 He spent his first year learning from Woodley... in a Lloyd Carr U-M team. And the next year under Carr again... (you REALLY don't watch college football do you?)
#3 What the **** is the Rich Rod "fun bunch" ? are you ****ing high? please elaborate upon this pulled out of your ass posit...
#4 you won't go into why he isn't Woodley because you CAN'T... please try... Woodley says Graham is Woodley, Graham says he is, damn near every scout says he is.. (except a few say he is Dumervil) ... his coaches say he is... but PLEASE explain why YOU know better than someone who has watched EVERY game both players have played(me) and every credible scout I have read.... if you have facts, tape, ANYTHING .. I'd love to hear it.
#5 your analysis of Graham is laughable at best... once again, please tell me which GAMES (not youtube clips) you have watched of him...

Lastly... IF you could pull your head out of your ass for a second and ADMIT that Graham is very likely a Woodley clone... can you HONESTLY say you wouldn't take Woodley(part 2) in a heartbeat with our 2a pick?(and feel you got a steal)

The funny thing is....is that he won't respond to your post. I called him out on shit in another thread and he just ignored it and moved on. Once he's been proven wrong....he moves onto something else.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

You couldn't play Graham on the SAM side as he lacks the hip turn and backpedal and sideline to sideline burst...you might be able to get away with him as a Mike, but I doubt it as he'd be a liability in mid-zone coverage, so all he really could do in a 3-4 is the ROLB spot.

And you know this how? You obviously haven't watched him play... so where do you get your info? (btw... what position does Hali play and what position does Woodley play? Here's a hint... NOT THE SAME ONE DUMBASS)

Also... you do know that until U-M put him at DE, Graham had played LB his entire career...

In high school, Rivals.com ranked Graham as the top class of 2006 high school football prospect in the state of Michigan, the number two inside linebacker prospect and the overall fifteenth best prospect in the nation.^[16] Scout.com listed him as the number three linebacker in the nation and described him as the number one overall prospect in the midwest.^[17] Scout also described him as "arguably the best inside linebacker in the nation".^[18] ESPNU ranked him as the number two inside linebacker and number thirty-one prospect in the nation.^[19] Recruiting analyst Tom Lemming, listed Graham as the best linebacker in the country for USA Today.^[20] The Atlanta Journal-Constitution listed him at 15th among their national top 25 prospects.^[21]

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

And you know this how? You obviously haven't watched him play... so where do you get your info? (btw... what position does Hali play and what position does Woodley play? Here's a hint... NOT THE SAME ONE DUMBASS)

Also... you do know that until U-M put him at DE, Graham had played LB his entire career...

Yes, he did. Middle linebacker to be specific.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Yes, he did. Middle linebacker to be specific.

I'm sure you google searched it after AustinChief bent you over and kicked your ****ing ass in.

Tool.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

I'm sure you google searched it after AustinChief bent you over and kicked your ****ing ass in.

Tool.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

And you know this how? You obviously haven't watched him play... so where do you get your info? (btw... what position does Hali play and what position does Woodley play? Here's a hint... NOT THE SAME ONE DUMBASS)

What position does Woodley play and what position does Graham play? Is it the same one? (Not that it's relevant - well as relevant as a Hali/Woodley comparison...)

Also... you do know that until U-M put him at DE, Graham had played LB his entire career...

His entire career? You mean like high school? Eric Berry, up until he enrolled at Tennessee and ended up at safety, was a quarterback for his "entire career." It doesn't mean that he's going to be playing it in the NFL.

But, I concede. You win. You've convinced me that Brandon Graham is the greatest defensive end/linebacker prospect ever. I will never again besmirch his name by comparing him to someone of Hali's ilk. And they don't play the same position and shouldn't be considered to play the same position on the Chiefs.

Graham is Woodley, Woodley is Graham. Neither are Hali and to infer as such shall be considered heresy.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

But, I concede. You win.

You really didn't have to conceed. Anyone with the comprehension level of a 3rd grader could read how bad you got owned in this entire thread.

Watching you post back and forth with people who understand football is like watching Mike Tyson fight Peter McNeeley.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

You really didn't have to conceed. Anyone with the comprehension level of a 3rd grader could read how bad you got owned in this entire thread.

Watching you post back and forth with people who understand football is like watching Mike Tyson fight Peter McNeeley.

*yawn*

Thanks once again for contributing...

nothing.

[The Bad Guy]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

*yawn*

Thanks once again for contributing...

nothing.

Wait, I'll make up a bunch of stuff and post it as fact and then go to YouTube to try to support every claim I make.

OKUNG FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy

Wait, I'll make up a bunch of stuff and post it as fact and then go to YouTube to try to support every claim I make.

OKUNG FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since you obviously don't approve of highlight videos, here's a couple of reports/analysis on Graham:

Pass rush: Relentless rusher able to pressure the quarterback lining up on the strong or weak side. Lines up at five-technique in some passing situations. Uses his strength, balance and lack of height to get under shoulder pads of tackle. Strong, violent hands to beat his man straight-out or disengage. Lacks a consistent counter move. Has an inside spin move but rarely shows it. Despite his stout build, Graham drops into zone coverage easily and shows some fluidity in space. Backpedal is slow, as expected, but he will still get a shot as a linebacker for a 3-4 team. Lines up wide so he can turn the corner against slower tackles, will struggle to do so against NFL tackles.

Run defense: Can punch the tackle to disengage or maintain the angle to force the action inside when run plays are coming his way. Occasionally gets skinny to penetrate on inside runs. Stays home to contain, watch for bootlegs and stop reverses. Must be more consistent using his hands to defeat cut blocks, although he can still make the tackle after a cut as he recovers fairly well. Has a good motor, works hard to get down the line on runs away from him. Lacks elite speed to chase down NFL backs consistently.

Strengths:

Brandon Graham has a very quick first step and a relentless motor. He has a nice repertoire of pass rush moves. Graham appears to have more than adequate strength, especially in his lower body. He uses his hands very well and can "dip and rip" through blocks. He has quick, concise movements and takes a direct path to the quarterback as a pass rusher. He does a good job of staying under control and doesn't whiff on sacks when he gets to the quarterback. Graham diagnoses plays well and can scrape down the line well on run plays. He has good balance and always seems to be moving in the right direction despite being chipped or having any trash in his way. Graham typically takes nice angles on action away from him. He seems to have very nice, fluid lateral movement. He is somewhat versatile in that he could be a 3-4 OLB or a Tampa 2 type DE.

Weakness:

As in most 3-4 defensive prospects, there is the projection factor to look at. You have to take what he has done at Michigan and project that not only to the next level, but to a very different position. Despite the recent success of some smaller rush ends, you have to take Graham's height into consideration. He needs to play with a better pad level. His hips appear to be on the stiff side and dropping into coverage could be an issue. He can struggle in space against the run. His arms appear shorter than scouts like. His overall athletic ability could be marginal.

Analysis:

Brandon Graham can be viewed as a boom or bust prospect. He certainly has a lot to like, but he also has his fair share of question marks. With a prospect like Graham there is always a lot of uncertainty involved because of the projection factor. With that said, I think teams are going to have a hard time ignoring his explosiveness off the edge. The NFL covets pass rushers and Graham could be a very good one. He might make the smoothest transition to the NFL if he were to end up playing in a Tampa 2 defense, but his ultimate upside is probably as a 3-4 OLB. If he does end up on a 3-4 team he will take some time to develop. At this point I feel Graham is safely within the first round.

Pros

Non-stop powerful motor
Very Physical at point of attack
Very Strong
Great Character, hard worker
Bevy of moves, ability to work his man up the middle, around the outside, or bull rush
Plays with great pad level
Uses his hands extremely well
Does a great job in pursuit, never quits on a play
Great instincts and ability to diagnose plays, which makes him very good in stuffing the run.
Gets out of stance and up field very quickly

Cons

A bit shorter than your prototypical Defensive End
Does not have great speed for his size
Sometimes, can get engulfed by big Lineman
Has a tough time with double teams.

I just don't know what he's going to give you over a guy like Hali, especially when you take into account the learning curve. I doubt that he would be truly effective playing the SAM position, and I know Hali wouldn't be able to play it so you'd be drafting him to replace Hali. As such, did Hali's performance this past season dictate that the Chiefs need to consider using a high draft pick for a replacement?