Combine Winners and Losers

Chiefs=Champions · 03-02-2010, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

For the most part he does but he was never in this position either where he has a QB who was his big move looking like he shit himself.

Good point. God, if we draft Okung its going to be a long time untill we recover from this draft.....

Mr. Laz · 03-02-2010, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs=Good

Good point. God, if we draft Okung its going to be a long time untill we recover from this draft.....

over-dramatic much?

Chiefs=Champions · 03-03-2010, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

over-dramatic much?

reerun much?

Saccopoo · 03-03-2010, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs=Good

Good point. God, if we draft Okung its going to be a long time untill we recover from this draft.....

Jesus...you people really don't have a clue do you? I understand that it's not a sexy pick, but it's an important one. And the Chiefs have neglected their offensive line for ten years in terms of the draft.

Do you want to know why the Chiefs suck so bad right now? It's because our offensive line is the absolute shits. Other than an old Walters and a young project, this line has no talent whatsoever.

In drafting Okung, you are getting the premier player in his draft class (which looks to be a pretty good class talent wise) at a premier position. Even if he sucks at left tackle, he can play at RT, RG or LG. It's a no brainer pick for a position of great need by the Chiefs. (Because if you don't think that the offensive line doesn't need upgrading then you are either one of two things: 1. Delusional, or 2. Stupid as ****.) What the hell is their to recover from in drafting the best, most highly regarded left tackle in a deep and talented draft?

I'd seriously like to know why you think that it's going to take a long time for the Chiefs to recover if they draft Okung? Seriously, I'd like to know why you think drafting the best left tackle in this draft is a negative thing for a team with an offensive line that's as bad as what the Chiefs put out last season.

Chiefs=Champions · 03-03-2010, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Jesus...you people really don't have a clue do you? I understand that it's not a sexy pick, but it's an important one. And the Chiefs have neglected their offensive line for ten years in terms of the draft.

Do you want to know why the Chiefs suck so bad right now? It's because our offensive line is the absolute shits. Other than an old Walters and a young project, this line has no talent whatsoever.

In drafting Okung, you are getting the premier player in his draft class (which looks to be a pretty good class talent wise) at a premier position. Even if he sucks at left tackle, he can play at RT, RG or LG. It's a no brainer pick for a position of great need by the Chiefs. (Because if you don't think that the offensive line doesn't need upgrading then you are either one of two things: 1. Delusional, or 2. Stupid as ****.) What the hell is their to recover from in drafting the best, most highly regarded left tackle in a deep and talented draft?

I'd seriously like to know why you think that it's going to take a long time for the Chiefs to recover if they draft Okung? Seriously, I'd like to know why you think drafting the best left tackle in this draft is a negative thing for a team with an offensive line that's as bad as what the Chiefs put out last season.

Im not gonna read this whole thing. but im going to gloss over it as its gonna be the same old, same old argument...

By picking Okung we squander another chance to pick up a top of the line playmaker. Those chances dont come around every ****ing year and despite the recent picks the chiefs have had, unless we totally skull **** our picks (somewhat like last year

) we are not going to be picking this high again soon.

u dont take Okung because its a need (btw i dont believe it is, cause i think Albert will be fine), u take the value pick e.g. Berry, Clausen. Thus getting a true playmaker. After all its a playmakers league.

Ur argument is basically saying "Lets draft John Tait, when we have a chance to have a franchise qb or an Ed Reed type saftey..."

It most certainly screws over the chiefs cause u dont get that many chances to pick this high. So when u do ud better get value and add a top of the line talent. If ur always going to take the safe option (McClain, Okung, Jackson) ull end up with a mediocre team without enough talent to make any noise in the playoffs. Essentially its the 2003 chiefs again.

Mr. Laz · 03-03-2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs=Good

Im not gonna read this whole thing. but im going to gloss over it as its gonna be the same old, same old argument...

By picking Okung we squander another chance to pick up a top of the line playmaker. Those chances dont come around every ****ing year and despite the recent picks the chiefs have had, unless we totally skull **** our picks (somewhat like last year

) we are not going to be picking this high again soon.

u dont take Okung because its a need (btw i dont believe it is, cause i think Albert will be fine), u take the value pick e.g. Berry, Clausen. Thus getting a true playmaker. After all its a playmakers league.

Ur argument is basically saying "Lets draft John Tait, when we have a chance to have a franchise qb or an Ed Reed type saftey..."

It most certainly screws over the chiefs cause u dont get that many chances to pick this high. So when u do ud better get value and add a top of the line talent. If ur always going to take the safe option (McClain, Okung, Jackson) ull end up with a mediocre team without enough talent to make any noise in the playoffs. Essentially its the 2003 chiefs again.

and yet it's still just one draft pick

if that pick turns out to be a quality player it doesn't really matter what position they play and it will hardly wreck the franchise for years.

Chiefs=Champions · 03-03-2010, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laz

and yet it's still just one draft pick

if that pick turns out to be a quality player it doesn't really matter what position they play and it will hardly wreck the franchise for years.

It will if we miss out on another chance to draft a franchise QB or a game changing saftey for a 'quality player' at LT....................

Saccopoo · 03-03-2010, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs=Good

By picking Okung we squander another chance to pick up a top of the line playmaker. Those chances dont come around every ****ing year and despite the recent picks the chiefs have had, unless we totally skull **** our picks (somewhat like last year

) we are not going to be picking this high again soon.

The only squandering to be done is to miss out on the premier left tackle in a draft. THAT's the chance that doesn't come around very often, because those guys are gone by pick 10, especially ones with the experience and intangibles and high level of play that you are getting from a guy like Okung. Playmakers are always available in the mid to late first round, especially at positions like safety, linebacker, tight end, running back, corner, etc. The three most important positions on the football field are, in order, QB, Rush End, and Blindside Protector. If you have a chance to take the best at one of those positions in a draft, you take it unless you have a top five guy at that position there already on your team.

I agree that Eric Berry has all the intangibles, and looks to be an excellent prospect, but he's not going to do as much for this team as Okung would in terms of providing high level of play at one of the top positions of need and importance. Safety is a luxury pick, and in passing on high level players at core positions for high level players at secondary positions is what will cost this team in the long run. And I'd even argue that Okung matches Berry in terms of physical abilities and intangibles and on-field production relevant to his specific position.

If Okung is off the board, I'd have no problem with the Chiefs taking Berry. They would be stupid not to. But if Okung is on the board, they'd be stupid taking the elite safety over the elite left tackle. However, like I've said, I seriously doubt that they get the opportunity to draft Okung as I don't see how any of the three teams in front of the Chiefs pass on him, especially when one considers that there will most likely be a run on OT's in the first round this year dropping the talent level at that position in the subsequent rounds substantially, while there will still be excellent prospects at safety in the second and subsequent rounds.

I really think that it is going to come down to Bulaga and Berry. If that's the case, I'd much rather have Berry.

Quote:

u dont take Okung because its a need (btw i dont believe it is, cause i think Albert will be fine), u take the value pick e.g. Berry, Clausen. Thus getting a true playmaker. After all its a playmakers league.

It's not a playmaker league. It's having a very good quarterback, and protecting that quarterback league. It's having a defense that can pressure a quarterback without relying on blitzing. If you have those three things, you have a chance to win every single game. A good quarterback with good protection will beat a defense with elite level players at coverage positions like safety and corner almost every time.

Quote:

Ur argument is basically saying "Lets draft John Tait, when we have a chance to have a franchise qb or an Ed Reed type saftey..."

Not at all. If you don't have a franchise level quarterback and have the opportunity to draft one, you draft one over every other position. If you have the opportunity to draft an elite rush end (and I mean ELITE) and you don't have one, you take him. And if you have the opportunity to take that elite left tackle and you don't have one, you take him.

And since you mention Ed Reed, there is a reason why he was picked at #24, Polamalu at #16, Bob Sanders in the second round - they are safeties. Guys like that are going to be there, and the Chiefs, once they build their core and give themselves a chance to get better, will have the opportunity to spend first round draft choices on that type of luxury pick. That's what makes good teams great - that they have solid players at the core positions and then supplement their teams with those "playmakers" at luxury positions. You don't build a team the other way around. (Raiders and Matt Millen's Lions are perfect examples of this - having highly skilled "playmakers" at secondary positions while ignoring the core.)

Chiefs=Champions · 03-03-2010, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

The three most important positions on the football field are, in order, QB, Rush End, and Blindside Protector. If you have a chance to take the best at one of those positions in a draft, you take it unless you have a top five guy at that position there already on your team.

So really you should be pimping Clausen??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I agree that Eric Berry has all the intangibles, and looks to be an excellent prospect, but he's not going to do as much for this team as Okung would in terms of providing high level of play at one of the top positions of need and importance.

I would rather an Ed Reed clone over John Tait any day of the week...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Safety is a luxury pick, and in passing on high level players at core positions for high level players at secondary positions is what will cost this team in the long run. And I'd even argue that Okung matches Berry in terms of physical abilities and intangibles and on-field production relevant to his specific position.

Seriously? he doesn’t seem all that impressive to me. I would have rather (if i thought Albert was a bust) taken a left tackle last year.. To be honest im starting to like Bruce Campbell a lot more than Okung...

Im not sure how having an Ed Reed clone hurts this team in any way? With this league becoming pass oriented i dont see at all how it can hurt the Chiefs. I think ull find that the value of safeties in future drafts will sky rocket.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Not at all. If you don't have a franchise level quarterback and have the opportunity to draft one, you draft one over every other position. If you have the opportunity to draft an elite rush end (and I mean ELITE) and you don't have one, you take him. And if you have the opportunity to take that elite left tackle and you don't have one, you take him.

So again we should be taking Clausen then??

When it comes down to it the only way you can justify your pimping of Okung is by your belief that he will be a top 10 tackle in this league, Albert is a complete bust and Cassel is going to be a franchise QB.

That’s all fine your entitled to ur opinion, but it is of my opinion that Okung is not a top 10 LT, Albert will be fine and Cassel sucks donkey dick. Also im of the belief that Clausen seem like a possible franchise tackle and that Berry is essentially Ed Reed, while Okung is nothing special.

With that in mind IMHO it is most certainly a skull **** of a pick to take Okung, as through him were wasting a high pick on a player that IMO we already have and using one of our limited high first round picks in doing so...

It will be interesting to see whos right and whos wrong but we wont no for awhile now.

However it seems pretty stupid to question my takes on football and the draft and vice versa when essentially were using the same method but with different opinions on certain players...

Saccopoo · 03-04-2010, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs=Good

It will be interesting to see whos right and whos wrong but we wont no for awhile now.

It will be about the second week of summer camp at the latest. When they make Bulaga their starting left tackle and Albert is at either left or right guard, depending upon who they prefer at either position between Waters and Albert.

In three years, you'll be begging the gods of replay that they had the opportunity to take Okung, as Berry languishes in relative obscurity in Tampa Bay, Bulaga is a middling LT for the Chiefs, and Okung is knocking the piss out of people under Shanahan in DC.

**Reaper16** · 03-04-2010, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

It will be about the second week of summer camp at the latest. When they make Bulaga their starting left tackle and Albert is at either left or right guard, depending upon who they prefer at either position between Waters and Albert.

In three years, you'll be begging the gods of replay that they had the opportunity to take Okung, as Berry languishes in relative obscurity in Tampa Bay, Bulaga is a middling LT for the Chiefs, and Okung is knocking the piss out of people under Shanahan in DC.

FindtheOkung

Chiefs=Champions · 03-04-2010, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

It will be about the second week of summer camp at the latest. When they make Bulaga their starting left tackle and Albert is at either left or right guard, depending upon who they prefer at either position between Waters and Albert.

In three years, you'll be begging the gods of replay that they had the opportunity to take Okung, as Berry languishes in relative obscurity in Tampa Bay, Bulaga is a middling LT for the Chiefs, and Okung is knocking the piss out of people under Shanahan in DC.

I dont remember ever liking Bulaga... If Bulaga is the pick i seriously may hurl.....

Chiefs=Champions · 03-03-2010, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Jesus...you people really don't have a clue do you?

How can u say something like this and then go on to say:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Do you want to know why the Chiefs suck so bad right now? It's because our offensive line is the absolute shits. Other than an old Walters and a young project, this line has no talent whatsoever.

are you ****ing serious?

the only reason we are bad is the oline?? its one of the reasons sure but the way u act we're a guard and a tackle away from the playoffs.

Jeez mate, i somewhat valued ur opion before. i have my doubts now...

chiefzilla1501 · 03-03-2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Jesus...you people really don't have a clue do you? I understand that it's not a sexy pick, but it's an important one. And the Chiefs have neglected their offensive line for ten years in terms of the draft.

Do you want to know why the Chiefs suck so bad right now? It's because our offensive line is the absolute shits. Other than an old Walters and a young project, this line has no talent whatsoever.

In drafting Okung, you are getting the premier player in his draft class (which looks to be a pretty good class talent wise) at a premier position. Even if he sucks at left tackle, he can play at RT, RG or LG. It's a no brainer pick for a position of great need by the Chiefs. (Because if you don't think that the offensive line doesn't need upgrading then you are either one of two things: 1. Delusional, or 2. Stupid as ****.) What the hell is their to recover from in drafting the best, most highly regarded left tackle in a deep and talented draft?

I'd seriously like to know why you think that it's going to take a long time for the Chiefs to recover if they draft Okung? Seriously, I'd like to know why you think drafting the best left tackle in this draft is a negative thing for a team with an offensive line that's as bad as what the Chiefs put out last season.

Our bad o-line also paved the way for the 2nd best rusher in the second half in the NFL, and kept Cassel mostly on his feet.

And that doesn't shy away from the point that top Guards and Centers go off the board in the 2nd and 3rd round.

Rather than waste the pick on a LT in the #5, why not get 1 or 2 top-of-the-line interior linemen. That would improve the o-line just as much as bringing in Okung would.