Lilja & Wiegmann: More Questions Than Answers

[Hammock Parties]

http://kan.scout.com/2/955591.html

Think back a few weeks, to a point before free agency started. Can you imagine someone telling you that the Chiefs would be able to land a recent Pro Bowl center and a 28-year-old guard who played in two of the last four Super Bowls? And that they would do it before St. Patrick’s Day?

How would you have reacted? With excitement? Jubilation? The thought of such major upgrades finally being made to KC’s offensive line would have thrilled just about any Chiefs fan.

As we all know, those additions have actually happened in the form of two ex-Chiefs who’ve returned to Kansas City. One of them – Casey Wiegmann – was a starter here from 2001-2007. The other – Ryan Lilja – was originally a Chief during the summer of his rookie season before he was cut and claimed off waivers by the Indianapolis Colts.

Instead of providing us with some certainty about the offensive line, though, these new signings have actually left us here at Warpaint Illustrated with more questions than answers about where the line is headed.

Casey Wiegmann

Perhaps the most unusual thing about Wiegmann’s return to the Chiefs is that the team chose to bring in a veteran center over 35 and it wasn’t former Tennessee Titan Kevin Mawae.

It’s been obvious over the last year that Scott Pioli and Todd Haley put a premium on players they have prior experience with. Wiegmann has strong ties to the Chiefs’ franchise, but he has no history with the new regime. On the other hand, Pioli and Haley, plus numerous other members of the Chiefs’ staff, were with the New York Jets in 1998 when Mawae began his eight-year stay there.

Like Wiegmann, Mawae is a smaller center, adept at pulling and zone blocking. He’s about a year and a half older than Wiegmann, but the fact that he’s coming off two straight Pro Bowls suggests his tank isn’t empty quite yet. If the Chiefs wanted to sign an aging center, Mawae seemed like a perfect fit.

So what made the team sign Wiegmann instead? That answer may shed some light on what the team has in mind for him.

The decision could have come down to money, of course. Perhaps Mawae was asking for more than the Chiefs wanted to pay a player of his age. On the other hand, Mawae’s agent has made no secret of the fact that his client is looking for a starting job. Maybe that’s what took the Chiefs out of the running.

In other words, maybe the team wasn’t looking to sign a new starter. With backup center Wade Smith leaving for Houston in free agency, perhaps the Chiefs were simply looking to add some depth.

Many have already penciled Wiegmann into the starting lineup, but we have to consider the possibility that starting Wiegmann over Rudy Niswanger might not actually be in the team’s plans.

Why didn't the Chiefs sign Kevin Mawae? Getty

But let’s assume they do plan to start him. In that case, Wiegmann would presumably line up between Lilja and Brian Waters. That means two-thirds of the Chiefs’ interior line would weigh less than 300 pounds.

Does the team really plan to go that small? Couldn’t that pose a problem on the goal line and in short-yardage situations?

The Patriots, with Logan Mankins, Dan Koppen, and Stephen Neal, don’t have an interior that small. The Cardinals, with Reggie Wells, Deuce Lutui, and Lyle Sendlein, have a considerable amount of beef in the middle. If the Chiefs do plan to line up such a slim interior, it would be a departure from the norm for both Pioli and Haley.

Then there’s the upcoming draft, which is another factor to keep in mind. It’s been far too long since the Chiefs addressed the center position by drafting a young player. Given his obvious connection to Charlie Weis, there has been speculation around Notre Dame center Eric Olsen, but by no means is he the only prospect worth looking at.

If the Chiefs draft a center this year, it’s hard to imagine them keeping three. So who becomes the odd man out? If the idea is to groom a young player, then having a veteran like Wiegmann around makes sense.

But what happens with Niswanger? Would the team pull their RFA tender, making him a free agent? Would they move him back to guard, where he saw his first action with the Chiefs?

There are plenty of questions, but few answers.


Ryan Lilja

As a member of the Colts, Lilja lined up at left guard. In Kansas City, Brian Waters has that spot occupied. Will the Chiefs simply move Lilja to the right side of the line? That obviously seems like the easiest solution, but we can’t ignore that Waters has been the subject of trade rumors since his unpleasant meeting with Chiefs’ brass last year.

How does Lilja’s arrival impact Branden Albert? If Lilja and Waters are entrenched at guard, then it casts doubt on the mainstream theory that has the Chiefs drafting a left tackle with their first-round pick. After all, unless you put stock into the strange reports about a possible move to right tackle, Albert would then have nowhere to move.

However, the biggest questions aren’t about Lilja’s position – they’re about his health.

According to a Tweet from Scout.com’s own Adam Caplan, Lilja was cut by the Colts after failing a physical. For a player who missed the entire 2008 season because of three surgeries on his knee, that’s no small detail.

However, it’s fair to say that some have been skeptical of that report. They point to the fact that Lilja started 21 games for the Colts last year – two in the preseason, all 16 games of the regular season, and Indy’s three postseason contests. Only once in that span did Lilja appear on the Colts’ injury report, when he was listed as probable for the Super Bowl with a sore back.

Then there’s the fact that Lilja presumably passed his physical with the Chiefs. He was also in good enough shape for the team to give him a three-year contract, rather than the one-year deals signed by Wiegmann, Mike Vrabel, Shaun Smith, and others.

But that takes us back to the Colts’ decision to release Lilja in the first place. It’s been widely reported that Indy plans to utilize larger offensive linemen now that longtime line coach Howard Mudd has retired. But would that alone prompt them to release one of their starters? Particularly when, according to many Colts fans, there doesn’t seem to be an obvious replacement for Lilja?

As one of the league’s best-run franchises, the Colts aren’t in the habit of making foolish personnel decisions. Knowing that, logic would suggest some additional factors behind Lilja’s release, apart from their shift in philosophy. They paid Lilja a scheduled roster bonus before releasing him, so financial reasons don’t seem to apply. Injury concerns are one of the only reasons that make sense.

We’ve already covered the size issue, but if Lilja’s injuries have in any way limited his ability, it only exacerbates those concerns. More information on his health status will surely come out, but once again, it’s a situation where the questions outnumber the answers.

Until we get a better idea of the Chiefs’ plans, it may be awhile before we can discuss the offensive line with any certainty. In fact, when it comes to these new additions, it seems like the only thing we know for sure is that we don’t know anything for sure.

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Whoa, he gave up a crap ton of pressures.

Scheme won't hide that.

Yea and we didn't have trouble running the ball with Charles it was the # of sacks and pressures. Some of it was Cassel some of it was the line and Weigmann will not help in pass protection.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Whoa, he gave up a crap ton of pressures.

Scheme won't hide that.

Well when he's asked to play in a powerblocking scheme and block NTs straight up, of course he'll give up more pressures.

[-King-]

So our other two choices would have been Fraley and Mawae. Mawae had only 1 less qb pressure than Weigmann. Fraley had 6 the whole year, but he only started 4 games.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by billay

For sure. Alot of people don't pay attention to the offensive line like you do Milkman. When the average fan hears we signed Lilja and Weigmann they think back to the greatest show on grass days. I will assure you neither player will play to that level again.

I've pretty much stayed away from the Lilja/Weigman debates.

I actually agree with both sides of the arguments.

Lilja showed no ill effects from the knee surgeries, and in spite of the arguments that the Colts were a poor run blocking team, he was, as has been discussed, the best run blocker on that line.

He still has the mobility to get out in front when pulling and on screens.

Weigman also still has that mobility, as well.

Lilja is also an effective, albeit not dominating pass protector.
Yes, Manning decision making and quick passes did help, but it wasn't all strictly due to Manning.

The pass protection that Weigman provided, however, was lacking to say the least.

He's going to need help, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Lilja and Weigman double up substantially.

But at the end of the day, I still think there's a good chance that Brown and a drafted center are starters by season's end, making both Lilja and Weigman solid depth, which makes them good free agent additions.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

I've pretty much stayed away from the Lilja/Weigman debates.

I actually agree with both sides of the arguments.

Lilja showed no ill effects from the knee surgeries, and in spite of the arguments that the Colts were a poor run blocking team, he was, as has been discussed, the best run blocker on that line.

He still has the mobility to get out in front when pulling and on screens.

Weigman also still has that mobility, as well.

Lilja is also an effective, albeit not dominating pass protector.
Yes, Manning decision making and quick passes did help, but it wasn't all strictly due to Manning.

The pass protection that Weigman provided, however, was lacking to say the least.

He's going to need help, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Lilja and Weigman double up substantially.

But at the end of the day, I still think there's a good chance that Brown and a drafted center are starters by season's end, making both Lilja and Weigman solid depth, which makes them good free agent additions.

I also wonder if Lilja moves back to LG after this season and Waters retires. It will definitely be interesting. But I think the Lilja move makes it likely that Center is their absolute #1 line priority.

[-King-]

Originally Posted by milkman

I've pretty much stayed away from the Lilja/Weigman debates.

I actually agree with both sides of the arguments.

Lilja showed no ill effects from the knee surgeries, and in spite of the arguments that the Colts were a poor run blocking team, he was, as has been discussed, the best run blocker on that line.

He still has the mobility to get out in front when pulling and on screens.

Weigman also still has that mobility, as well.

Lilja is also an effective, albeit not dominating pass protector.
Yes, Manning decision making and quick passes did help, but it wasn't all strictly due to Manning.

The pass protection that Weigman provided, however, was lacking to say the least.

He's going to need help, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see Lilja and Weigman double up substantially.

But at the end of the day, I still think there's a good chance that Brown and a drafted center are starters by season's end, making both Lilja and Weigman solid depth, which makes them good free agent additions.

Yeah, Weigmann will have to have help from Waters and Lilja, but I don't think he'll struggle as much as others have said he would. Him, Lilja, and Albert pulling and getting out in the open field for Charles will be nice to see though.

[ChiefMojo]

All I know is Wiegmann or whomever is at center is better than Niswanger. I hope to God we draft a Center and groom the kid to either start very early or back-up Wiegmann. That is why I'm not bothered by signing Wiegmann to a one year deal. I'd much rather take my chances on a old Wiegmann then a younger player that has proven to be a major FAIL in Niswanger. Put Niswanger at G as a back-up and pray that he can actually play. If Wiegmann fails, so freaking what, it would be no different than Niswanger, so it would be a push at worst.

As for Lilja, regardless of his reasons for exiting Indy, again is he better than what we have at LG? Heck yea he is better than anything we have there so why cry about it? Lets just hope he actually has plenty left in the tank and it was more a scheme issue than anything.

Aww to be a Chiefs fan or to be the one that covers them... most everyone wants to sh*t on every single move. Screw positives!

[BigRock]

Originally Posted by Saul Good

So the article expresses concerns over Wiegmann's age and weight. It also acts as a proponent for signing Mawae. I'm not sure I really follow the logic here.

I don't think the article was actually saying "We should have signed Mawae". It's just saying that if they're gonna go out and get an old center, Mawae seemed like the more logical choice because of his connection to the front office.

So that raises the question of why they picked Casey, which is then explored. I think he's gonna start, but it's a good point that maybe they didn't promise him anything like they probably would have had to with Mawae.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by ChiefMojo

As for Lilja, regardless of his reasons for exiting Indy, again is he better than what we have at LG? Heck yea he is better than anything we have there so why cry about it? Lets just hope he actually has plenty left in the tank and it was more a scheme issue than anything.

I fully disagree.

I'm not sure he's better than Darryl Harris at this stage in his career, let alone Brian Waters.

Waters had a bad season in 2009 but I'd take him over Lilja.

And who's crying? This is a discussion forum. That's what we're all doing.

Discussing.

[FAX]

What about some of the guys we've been drafting in recent years? Guys like Richardson and Taylor and Magee and Brown? Can they even play, or what? If not, why the hell are they on the team? If they can play, why aren't they?

These are some damned questions.

FAX

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by FAX

What about some of the guys we've been drafting in recent years? Guys like Richardson and Taylor and Magee and Brown? Can they even play, or what? If not, why the hell are they on the team? If they can play, why aren't they?

These are some damned questions.

FAX

magee is a 5 tech
taylor is gone
brown was on i r
richardson is still here
Posted via Mobile Device

[FAX]

Forgot about Herb. He went to the Texans or somewhere, right?

I guess I just don't understand why we've been drafting OL and, with the exception of Albert, aren't getting anything out of those picks.

FAX

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by FAX

Forgot about Herb. He went to the Texans or somewhere, right?

I guess I just don't understand why we've been drafting OL and, with the exception of Albert, aren't getting anything out of those picks.

FAX

i wonder too faxy, i thought you had all the answers
Posted via Mobile Device

[FAX]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

i wonder too faxy, i thought you had all the answers
Posted via Mobile Device

Hardly. I'm a seeker.

FAX

[ChiefMojo]

McGee could still very well end up being a very good pick. He was only a rookie and 5-Tech at that.

I do agree some of our drafting with OL have been head scratchers as of late, but the only OL that Pioli has drafted is Brown. Brown was a rookie on the IR. He still has time to prove himself and grow as a player. He wasn't brought in to be immediate help it seems, but a hopefully starter a couple years down the line.