Our F-ing draft! - Page 3

Ralphy Boy · 07:33 PM

Okay, I really did not like the draft. The Berry pick was great but after that I didn’t like the way they went about it.

I don’t believe that Pioli & Haley actually stacked the board and ranked the players. I think they developed an infatuation with McCluster and reached on him. I believe the reason they didn’t have their assistants in the draft room was because they didn’t want everyone to see them throwing out all of the scouting reports, just to take who they wanted most. Basically I think Pioli did it just like he did last year.

The way I look at the 2nd round is this; Pioli & Haley tried to get cute here and screwed everything up. It would be one thing if we passed on Clausen to address an area of concern with the best player available but we didn’t. Whoever you draft in the 2nd should, IMO, be looked at as an eventual starter and I don’t see that in either of them.

I'd have rather had Clausen & Tate than McCluster & Arenas.

First of all I don't buy the BS that Philly was going to take McCluster. I think Nate Allen was their choice all along. Everyone thought they were going to take Earl Thomas in the first, but they took Graham knowing that Allen would be there in the 2nd. McCluster doesn't offer Philly anything that Jeremy Maclin & DeSean Jackson don’t already do.

Basically I see the picks of McCluster & Arenas as “cute” picks. As in Pioli & Haley tried to get cute by taking them because both are undersized guys who don’t have a real position. Does anyone actually believe either of these two will be starters? How many plays a game will these guys really get?

McCluster vs. Tate.
I'm not taking anything away from McCluster, he's dynamic and great. Everyone is rationalizing him as a multipurpose player who can rush & receive and he’s pretty good at both, but better as a RB. Given his lack of size, I can’t see him holding up in the NFL as a rusher and that wasn’t an area of need for us. For now he’s slotted as a WR, so I have to compare his ability there to that of Tate.
Career numbers:
McCluster = 130 catches, 1,703 yards (13.1 avg), 7 TD's
Tate = 157 catches, 2,707 yards (17.24 avg), 26 TD's

Obviously McCluster is not on Tate’s level as a pure receiver, but he’s a much better rusher so in my mind they are essentially break even.

The problem is that taking McCluster not only cost us Clausen, but we could have had someone who is, if not as good or better of a receiver, he is at the very least just a step below.

I know that they will use him as a rusher and I know that he’ll create matchup problems; I just don’t think there are enough rushing attempts in the season to go around to justify taking him this high.

Maybe they'll use him as a returner but his averages are less than spectacular in that area. 7.13 avg on punts and 19.68 on kickoffs for McCluster compared to 11.04 & 20.6 averages for Tate.

Maybe McCluster would have made it to the #50 pick, maybe he wouldn’t. Again, I don’t buy that Philly was going to take him at #37. Shit gets tossed out every year that someone is going to take someone and maybe half of it is true.

Arenas vs. the rest of the 2nd round talent.
This just made very little sense to me. What in the world makes Pioli think that it’s okay to take a return man this high? He’s a return guy and a very good punt returner.

He’s not a realistic every down option at CB and doesn’t really have the size to ever be, so it just makes little sense. We needed a starter here, not a role player, because we JUST took a role player in McCluster. There were at least 6 picks here that could have been made for an eventual starter and half of those would have been better than what we have on the roster right now.

I really don’t mind the Asamoah pick. I can’t say I was really excited about it, but he seems like a good player with a good head on his shoulders. It would just seem to me that we could have addressed our completely vacant pass rush or done something to close the "All Rushing Lane's Open" sign instead.

As far as trading up for Moeaki, I think they panicked and I think it was a horrible pick. Indianapolis was picking next and I think they must have thought that Indy would take him, since they did well with the last Iowa TE they picked in Dallas Clark. I don’t see anything worth getting excited about. Risking two picks (the two we traded up to get him) is insane for a guy who has only played in 21 games the last 3 years.

Obviously I can’t do anything about it, other than bitch. So just to make myself feel better, I’m going to say that, knowing what I know now about how the players came off the board, that this is how I would have drafted.

1 Eric Berry, FS
2a Jimmy Clausen, QB
2b Golden Tate, WR
3 Donald Butler, ILB
4 Clay Harbor, TE
5a Perrish Cox, CB
5b Cameron Sheffield, OLB
5c Cam Thomas, NT

I'd have been pretty torn about taking Clausen with Kindle on the board but I'd have done it. If we took Clausen, we could have still had Tate too and I think the two of them combined would be much better than McCluster & Arenas.

I can't imagine that Romeo & Charlie aren't pissed about not being in the draft room.

McCluster better end up being A LOT better than Tate and Jimmy combined. That or Jimmy better be a head case who has a huge meltdown ala Todd Marinovich.

Every pick they made after Berry, up until Lewis, was made to make Cassel look better and while I hope it was worth it, I can't help but question the picks.

I'll go back to hoping and praying that he will improve and be the guy that they thought we were getting. I'll hope and pray for a Trent Green 2nd Season Recovery. I'll fall in line with everyone else who has basically already decided that the "experts" were right. I'll try not to be envious of the teams that got the players I wanted us to get. I'll try not to wonder why I love this freaking team so much.

Okay, my venting is over.

**DaneMcCloud** · 04-27-2010, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

The sad thing about the trade for Moeaki was that Anthony McCoy is a better fit for the offense and wouldn't have required a move.

Yeah, I'm sure he would have fit in with the team captains as soon as he said "Hey dude, I've got some medical!".

'Hamas' Jenkins · 04-27-2010, 01:43 AM

Dane, it's not about whether or not you agree with their decisions, it's the fact that you are chastising people for putting forth their concerns and marginalizing them just as you had been over the last year.

Mecca · 04-27-2010, 01:46 AM

You know the Patriots drafted a guy who's failed multiple tests right?

I think there are some things to flag a guy for and it obviously cost him some rounds but damn that's a bit much, not everyone on the team has to be a captain.

**DaneMcCloud** · 04-27-2010, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Dane, it's not about whether or not you agree with their decisions, it's the fact that you are chastising people for putting forth their concerns and marginalizing them just as you had been over the last year.

Actually, I've been busting Ralphy's balls since January.

It's no different today.

And as for the Cam Thomas schtick, I think it's hilarious that people can become so focused on one player that it consumes their thinking throughout the entire draft.

OTWP contradicted himself (which I need to find) in which he disagreed with me concerning the paralyzation that can take place if you take a player with a trade up, which can result in missing on a player later in the draft. But later, he said that thinking like that is wrong.

All I'm pointing out is that the player worship, in this case Cam Thomas, is completely unwarranted and out of control. We're not talking top ten talent. We're not even talking top one hundred talent.

We're talking about a fifth rounder and criticizing the GM because he "lost out" by trading for HIS guy.

That's silly.

And complaining that your GM took playmakers yet didn't take YOUR GUY is tenuous at best and laughable at worst.

I apologize if my attitude and viewpoint offends you.

**DaneMcCloud** · 04-27-2010, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

You know the Patriots drafted a guy who's failed multiple tests right?

I think there are some things to flag a guy for and it obviously cost him some rounds but damn that's a bit much, not everyone on the team has to be a captain.

If you think the Patriots = the Chiefs, then every post you've made in the past 6 years is now and forthwith, invalidated.

Fritz88 · 04-27-2010, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

To be honest, I'm taken aback by the shift that you've co-opted over the last three days.

You've gone from supporting those who are critical of the regime to labeling anyone who is critical as "butthurt" or the same, tired "whiners".

Ultimately, whether or not you support what Pioli and co. has done is your prerogative, and should be done on an individual basis irrespective of how anyone else feels. Your critical thinking should lead you to the evaluation of them. I, for example, have no problem that you are a fan of their draft. However, for you to be derided for criticizing them, and you have at great length over the last year, and then to instantly shift to doing the same thing to others, is not just a little bit contradictory.

It's astoundingly hypocritical, and moral relativism at its worst.

****ing Irony. Dane has only started wounding anti-draft vaginas recently after he exhausted every single logical argument to support his stance. I may not agree with everything he said, but for you to chastise him for calling others is hysterical.

I'll be honest and say that I have immensely enjoyed the back and forth discussions between you and Dane but this post you have just made switched the entire debate from issues of this draft to criticizing why you or him is saying this or that.

Sofa King is a male whore.

Pioli Zombie · 04-27-2010, 04:09 AM

They weren't going to take Clausen. They didn't want Clausen. They were NEVER going to take Clausen. Get the **** over it!!!!!!

Pioli Zombie · 04-27-2010, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

To be honest, I'm taken aback by the shift that you've co-opted over the last three days.

You've gone from supporting those who are critical of the regime to labeling anyone who is critical as "butthurt" or the same, tired "whiners".

Ultimately, whether or not you support what Pioli and co. has done is your prerogative, and should be done on an individual basis irrespective of how anyone else feels. Your critical thinking should lead you to the evaluation of them. I, for example, have no problem that you are a fan of their draft. However, for you to be derided for criticizing them, and you have at great length over the last year, and then to instantly shift to doing the same thing to others, is not just a little bit contradictory.

It's astoundingly hypocritical, and moral relativism at its worst.

Did you actually bring up the word moral? Its ****ing football. Hyperbole much?

**Tribal Warfare** · 04-27-2010, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pioli Zombie

They weren't going to take Clausen. They didn't want Clausen. They were NEVER going to take Clausen. Get the **** over it!!!!!!

The thing I can't get over is that Pioli doesn't have a back up plan when Cassel fails, and since they don't they don't believe in Croyle we're ****ed. Pioli, is going to either live or die by Cassel's ability, because he is too stubborn to realize that it's possible that Cassel isn't "the guy".

Messier · 04-27-2010, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

I hadn't even looked at the stats.

We took a receiver who scored 7 career TDs over one with 26....

And Tate played in 31 games vs 36 for McCluster.

In the 1994 the wr with the most catches entering the draft was Chris Penn. Best pick ever!

Messier · 04-27-2010, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

The sad thing about the trade for Moeaki was that Anthony McCoy is a better fit for the offense and wouldn't have required a move.

Hmm, I'm intrigued by this McCoy, what college did he play for?

**OnTheWarpath15** · 04-27-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Actually, I've been busting Ralphy's balls since January.

It's no different today.

And as for the Cam Thomas schtick, I think it's hilarious that people can become so focused on one player that it consumes their thinking throughout the entire draft.

OTWP contradicted himself (which I need to find) in which he disagreed with me concerning the paralyzation that can take place if you take a player with a trade up, which can result in missing on a player later in the draft. But later, he said that thinking like that is wrong.

All I'm pointing out is that the player worship, in this case Cam Thomas, is completely unwarranted and out of control. We're not talking top ten talent. We're not even talking top one hundred talent.

We're talking about a fifth rounder and criticizing the GM because he "lost out" by trading for HIS guy.

That's silly.

And complaining that your GM took playmakers yet didn't take YOUR GUY is tenuous at best and laughable at worst.

I apologize if my attitude and viewpoint offends you.

I hope you find the quote, because I'm not sure what you're talking about.

ToxSocks · 04-27-2010, 01:42 PM

This whole value chart deal is wrong. The mock drafts were wrong, and apparently, the skill level of the players that the Mike Mayocks of the world evaluated are all wrong. Apparently, according to teams like the Eagles, the McCluster pick is not a reach like we initially thought it was. But, Cam Thomas at 2a, or even Cody at 2a would've been a HUGE reach. We were all wrong. Some people need to just accept that.

This draft proved that we knew nothing, so arguing that there was better value is pretty stupid. Some people rattled off that the Moeaki pick was a bad pick. Judging by the way this draft went, how the **** could anyone know that? Those TE's that are supposedly better NFL prospects, didn't go very high, did they? So in the eyes of pro scouts, there wasn't much of a skill drop off if any.

In hindsight, the Chiefs upgraded the team. They went out and drafted potential stars; guys who make a difference. Guys who have to be accounted for, which we all agreed this team was lacking. Well...we got em. So now what is there to bitch about?

Surely you can't argue value, considering how the chips fell in this draft, we weren't the only team to pass on such "valuable" players like, admittedly, one who I lobbied for, Cam Thomas.

CarlPeterson_fan · 04-27-2010, 03:48 PM

Mecca, Hamas, would you pm me your phone numbers? Just as soon as I get hired to run another NFL franchise, I want you two to head up my scouting department. We can build a great team with your extensive knowledge. We might have 53 QB's, but hey, lets roll with it.

KCrockaholic · 04-27-2010, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Messier

Hmm, I'm intrigued by this McCoy, what college did he play for?

"Why, USC of course! Because every player from USC is perfect and fits anything because I like them."

Mays! Williams! Sanchize!

04-26-2010, 07:26 PM
Ralphy Boy MVP Join Date: Aug 2001 Casino cash: $10004900	Our F-ing draft! Okay, I really did not like the draft. The Berry pick was great but after that I didn’t like the way they went about it. I don’t believe that Pioli & Haley actually stacked the board and ranked the players. I think they developed an infatuation with McCluster and reached on him. I believe the reason they didn’t have their assistants in the draft room was because they didn’t want everyone to see them throwing out all of the scouting reports, just to take who they wanted most. Basically I think Pioli did it just like he did last year. The way I look at the 2nd round is this; Pioli & Haley tried to get cute here and screwed everything up. It would be one thing if we passed on Clausen to address an area of concern with the best player available but we didn’t. Whoever you draft in the 2nd should, IMO, be looked at as an eventual starter and I don’t see that in either of them. I'd have rather had Clausen & Tate than McCluster & Arenas. First of all I don't buy the BS that Philly was going to take McCluster. I think Nate Allen was their choice all along. Everyone thought they were going to take Earl Thomas in the first, but they took Graham knowing that Allen would be there in the 2nd. McCluster doesn't offer Philly anything that Jeremy Maclin & DeSean Jackson don’t already do. Basically I see the picks of McCluster & Arenas as “cute” picks. As in Pioli & Haley tried to get cute by taking them because both are undersized guys who don’t have a real position. Does anyone actually believe either of these two will be starters? How many plays a game will these guys really get? McCluster vs. Tate. I'm not taking anything away from McCluster, he's dynamic and great. Everyone is rationalizing him as a multipurpose player who can rush & receive and he’s pretty good at both, but better as a RB. Given his lack of size, I can’t see him holding up in the NFL as a rusher and that wasn’t an area of need for us. For now he’s slotted as a WR, so I have to compare his ability there to that of Tate. Career numbers: McCluster = 130 catches, 1,703 yards (13.1 avg), 7 TD's Tate = 157 catches, 2,707 yards (17.24 avg), 26 TD's Obviously McCluster is not on Tate’s level as a pure receiver, but he’s a much better rusher so in my mind they are essentially break even. The problem is that taking McCluster not only cost us Clausen, but we could have had someone who is, if not as good or better of a receiver, he is at the very least just a step below. I know that they will use him as a rusher and I know that he’ll create matchup problems; I just don’t think there are enough rushing attempts in the season to go around to justify taking him this high. Maybe they'll use him as a returner but his averages are less than spectacular in that area. 7.13 avg on punts and 19.68 on kickoffs for McCluster compared to 11.04 & 20.6 averages for Tate. Maybe McCluster would have made it to the #50 pick, maybe he wouldn’t. Again, I don’t buy that Philly was going to take him at #37. Shit gets tossed out every year that someone is going to take someone and maybe half of it is true. Arenas vs. the rest of the 2nd round talent. This just made very little sense to me. What in the world makes Pioli think that it’s okay to take a return man this high? He’s a return guy and a very good punt returner. He’s not a realistic every down option at CB and doesn’t really have the size to ever be, so it just makes little sense. We needed a starter here, not a role player, because we JUST took a role player in McCluster. There were at least 6 picks here that could have been made for an eventual starter and half of those would have been better than what we have on the roster right now. I really don’t mind the Asamoah pick. I can’t say I was really excited about it, but he seems like a good player with a good head on his shoulders. It would just seem to me that we could have addressed our completely vacant pass rush or done something to close the "All Rushing Lane's Open" sign instead. As far as trading up for Moeaki, I think they panicked and I think it was a horrible pick. Indianapolis was picking next and I think they must have thought that Indy would take him, since they did well with the last Iowa TE they picked in Dallas Clark. I don’t see anything worth getting excited about. Risking two picks (the two we traded up to get him) is insane for a guy who has only played in 21 games the last 3 years. Obviously I can’t do anything about it, other than bitch. So just to make myself feel better, I’m going to say that, knowing what I know now about how the players came off the board, that this is how I would have drafted. 1 Eric Berry, FS 2a Jimmy Clausen, QB 2b Golden Tate, WR 3 Donald Butler, ILB 4 Clay Harbor, TE 5a Perrish Cox, CB 5b Cameron Sheffield, OLB 5c Cam Thomas, NT I'd have been pretty torn about taking Clausen with Kindle on the board but I'd have done it. If we took Clausen, we could have still had Tate too and I think the two of them combined would be much better than McCluster & Arenas. I can't imagine that Romeo & Charlie aren't pissed about not being in the draft room. McCluster better end up being A LOT better than Tate and Jimmy combined. That or Jimmy better be a head case who has a huge meltdown ala Todd Marinovich. Every pick they made after Berry, up until Lewis, was made to make Cassel look better and while I hope it was worth it, I can't help but question the picks. I'll go back to hoping and praying that he will improve and be the guy that they thought we were getting. I'll hope and pray for a Trent Green 2nd Season Recovery. I'll fall in line with everyone else who has basically already decided that the "experts" were right. I'll try not to be envious of the teams that got the players I wanted us to get. I'll try not to wonder why I love this freaking team so much. Okay, my venting is over. Last edited by Ralphy Boy; 04-26-2010 at 07:33 PM..
Posts: 5,088

04-27-2010, 01:43 AM	#32
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7959572	Dane, it's not about whether or not you agree with their decisions, it's the fact that you are chastising people for putting forth their concerns and marginalizing them just as you had been over the last year. __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,848

04-27-2010, 01:46 AM	#33
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $2347050	You know the Patriots drafted a guy who's failed multiple tests right? I think there are some things to flag a guy for and it obviously cost him some rounds but damn that's a bit much, not everyone on the team has to be a captain.
Posts: 111,117

04-27-2010, 01:42 PM	#43
ToxSocks Needs more middle fingers Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego Casino cash: $4054563	This whole value chart deal is wrong. The mock drafts were wrong, and apparently, the skill level of the players that the Mike Mayocks of the world evaluated are all wrong. Apparently, according to teams like the Eagles, the McCluster pick is not a reach like we initially thought it was. But, Cam Thomas at 2a, or even Cody at 2a would've been a HUGE reach. We were all wrong. Some people need to just accept that. This draft proved that we knew nothing, so arguing that there was better value is pretty stupid. Some people rattled off that the Moeaki pick was a bad pick. Judging by the way this draft went, how the **** could anyone know that? Those TE's that are supposedly better NFL prospects, didn't go very high, did they? So in the eyes of pro scouts, there wasn't much of a skill drop off if any. In hindsight, the Chiefs upgraded the team. They went out and drafted potential stars; guys who make a difference. Guys who have to be accounted for, which we all agreed this team was lacking. Well...we got em. So now what is there to bitch about? Surely you can't argue value, considering how the chips fell in this draft, we weren't the only team to pass on such "valuable" players like, admittedly, one who I lobbied for, Cam Thomas. __________________ Life is like a dick. Sometimes it gets hard for no reason, but it can't stay hard forever.
Posts: 64,561

04-27-2010, 03:48 PM	#44
CarlPeterson_fan Banned Join Date: Apr 2010 Casino cash: $10006490	Mecca, Hamas, would you pm me your phone numbers? Just as soon as I get hired to run another NFL franchise, I want you two to head up my scouting department. We can build a great team with your extensive knowledge. We might have 53 QB's, but hey, lets roll with it.
Posts: 84

04-27-2010, 04:09 AM	#37
Pioli Zombie Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: olathe,kansas Casino cash: $10004900	They weren't going to take Clausen. They didn't want Clausen. They were NEVER going to take Clausen. Get the **** over it!!!!!!
Posts: 11,077