***Offical 2010 STL Cardinals Baseball Thread ***

[BigRedChief]

Holliday signs. The Deal is Done. $120 Million over 7 years.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=stl

Signed or controlled for the next 2 years

Shumaker 2B
Rasmus CF
Pujols 1B
Holliday LF
Ludwick RF
Molina C
Freese 3B
Ryan SS
And 2 CY Young caliber starting pitchers
Carp and Wainwright P

We get Lohse or Garcia to step up and be a reliable 3rd starter in the playoffs we can win a World Series with this line up.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Realistically we are not the Yankees and can't keep all that talent. We have more talent on ourr team now than we can afford because we signed them to long term deals eariler in their career. see Pujols, Yadi, Waino etc.

I don't think you go to Albert and say we can't win unless you take less money.

He's not stupid.

Albert knows we can't win unless he takes less money. At least by offering him a blank check with that caveat, they've assuaged his ego and put the ball in his court. If the Cardinals give AP $30 million/season for his decline years, you can say adios to contending for any championships until after he retires. They simply cannot afford to spend that kind of money on a single player, especially when that player plays the most easily replaceable position on the diamond and the $$ you're paying him is for what he has done not what he will do.

NYY can do it, Boston, LA, NYM, Philly -- those guys can get away with that. STL cannot and Albert knows it.

Sure, if he demands it, they'll almost have to pay it. But at that point, he's cut his own throat because what leverage does Albert have to get the Cards to pay up on additional players? Ownership has it's new stadium, Albert's signed long-term and the Cardinals have their drawing card. They're not going to spend $150 million to build a winner around him. They'll let Yadi and WW, etc... walk. If he bitches about it, they can simply point out that they're a mid-market team with the highest paid player in the game and the economics don't lie. And the fans will side with ownership there; it's a blue collar town that won't take kindly to their superstar complaining about something he could've easily done something about.

Whereas if he takes less and they try to skimp on surrounding talent, he'll be able to go to the media, fans, etc... and make ownership the bad guy. "I took less because they told me they'd build a winner - now look at what they're doing..." That will absolutely sell in STL because, as odd as it would seem, by taking less money to win games, Albert becomes a working class hero.

I believe Albert knows the score here and he'll take less to win ballgames.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And the fans will side with ownership there; it's a blue collar town that won't take kindly to their superstar complaining about something he could've easily done something about.

Short of Albert being convicted of child molestation no one in st. Louis will take ownership's side over Albert. Albert is the inheritor of the Stan the Man icon of St. Louis. Stan didn't look so good this opening day. He's not going to be around forever. They have much more deeper feeling for Albert than just as a ball player who hits a ball. He's this generations Stan the Man, to see him in another uniform would be sacrilgious.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Short of Albert being convicted of child molestation no one in st. Louis will take ownership's side over Albert. Albert is the inheritor of the Stan the Man icon of St. Louis. Tehy have much more deeper feeling for Albert than just as a ball player who hits a ball.

Wait until he takes $30 million and complains that he can't win ballgames while his production declines.

Sure, fans will save the vitriole that would've been directed at Tino Martinez. But when Albert's putting up an OPS in the high 9s and the ballclub is paying him like he's producing at MVP levels, the fans aren't going to have much patience for his complaining. They won't boo him, but they won't put any pressure on ownership either. They'll shrug and they'll move along.

Musial is an icon in St. Louis because of who his was more than what he was. He isn't beloved because he hit the ball far and frequently, he's beloved because he was humble, gracious and unassuming. If Albert chases the last nickle then begins attempting to dictate the direction of the Cardinals while ignoring his own role in whatever predicament they may be facing, the fans will have none of it.

I suppose I was unclear in my terminology. The fans won't take 'ownerships' side, they'll take the Cardinals side. Yeah, they love Albert now. But they loved Ozzie before him. They loved Boyer and Carlton and Brock and Gibson before that. St. Louis loved the Cardinals well before Albert Pujols was here. The city will always put the Cardinals ahead of a player, any player. And if they don't feel that the proper respect is being paid to the Cardinals, they won't stand for it.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

If the Cardinals give AP $30 million/season for his decline years, you can say adios to contending for any championships until after he retires.

Then thats the way it will be. I got to share/see a World Championship won live with my son. He's a 5th generation fan. He does appreciate and respect Gibson, Brock and Stan the Man and our history but Albert is his player, the one he is emotionally attached too. To see Albert leave because of money would be totally the wrong thing to allow to happen to a whole generation of fans.

We have had a nice run. Playoffs almost every year. We haven't been swept in a series for over 9 years. We have had the undeniably best team in baseball several times. We have been to 2 WS and won one. We still have 2 years left in this window of oppertunity. Having Albert play like a $10-$15 million player at the end of a $30 million contract is worth it to have him finish his career as a Cardinal.

[Simply Red]

side note:
I like how last nights ump changed the zone in the middle of the game, we were vitually robbed last night by the red birds, Thanks shitty ump.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Simply Red

side note:
I like how last nights ump changed the zone in the middle of the game, we were vitually robbed last night by the red birds, Thanks shitty ump.

[BigRedChief]

Looks like Mo made a good deal again giving up Wallace for Holliday. From STLouistoday.com

So, remember Brett Wallace, the “soon-to-be” phenom that the Cards packaged in their deal to bring Matt Holliday to St. Louis last summer (that some people were upset about)? Well, he’s now playing for the Las Vegas 51s, the Triple-A affiliate of the Toronto Blue Jays. Why did Oakland trade him? He hit .302 for Sacramento of the Pacific Coast League. Was it because he struck out 40 times in 182 at bats, or his 19 errors in 312 chances last year? Maybe they wanted someone with a better HR ratio; 9 in 182 AB, ok, how about his .365 OBP??
What did the Cardinals know or Oakland find out that they would deal him to Toronto on Dec 16, 2009 for OF Michael Taylor? Michael Taylor was drafted by the Phillies in the 5th round in the 2007 June Amateur Draft. Currently, for Sacramento, Taylor is batting .246, has 1 HR, has struck out 12 times in 57 at bats and has 3 SBs. He batted .282 last year in 110 ABs with 15 HRs in AAA (hardly a “superstar”). What’s the scoop?

There’s a lot to the question, and thus there’s a lot to the answer. Brett Wallace is the kind of upside hitter that could get the deal for Holliday done, and as we wrote at the time the Cardinals were one of the few teams — if not only team — that could meet Billy Beane’s price for Holliday. Simply, he saw Holliday as a Type A free agent and wanted a first-round pick and a sandwich-round pick in exchange for him — because that’s what the A’s would be giving up from the 2011 draft. The Cardinals gave him that, in Wallace and pitcher Clayton Mortensen.

What the A’s saw and what the Cardinals determined was that Wallace is not going to play much, if any, at third base in the majors. He’s just not advanced enough at the position. He’s a hitter. That’s his future. That’s his position. That didn’t change the A’s view of his potential. According to several votes, Oakland chose between infielder Jemile Weeks (Rickie’s brother) at 12th overall in 2008 and Wallace, who went 13th. What did change was the A’s chance to get involved in the Roy Halladay trade and land a prospect coveted by Beane: Taylor. The outfielder hit 39 home runs the past two seasons, and he’s widely viewed as toolsy, power-potential athlete. He’s also hulking, at 6-foot-6 and 250 pounds. Though we know the A’s aren’t selling jeans.

[Chief Henry]

Saw that articile on Brett Wallace too......now, I hope Matt Holiday starts hitting in the clutch soon. I don't have any stats right now to back this up, but it seems to me the best he has played in Cardinal uniform so far was his first two weeks as a Cardinal last summer !!!

[seclark]

interesting...
http://interact.stltoday.com/blogzon...ctivate-larue/


ST. LOUIS — The St. Louis Cardinals have signed switch-hitting infielder Aaron Miles to a minor-league contract and sent him to Florida where he’ll work with the team’s extended spring training teams. Miles was released by the Cincinnati Reds.

He spent three seasons with the Cardinals before leaving as a free agent, and he was a starting second baseman for the team’s 2006 World Series team.

Miles, 33, remains a favorite of manager Tony La Russa, dating back to his turn as the team’s utility infielder. Each year he would start on the bench, and each season Miles would merit more playing time until emerging as the de facto starter at second base. He also filled in at shortstop when David Eckstein was injured.

The signing comes at an interesting time as the Cardinals are unsure of the availability of Felipe Lopez and the struggling offensive performance from shortstop Brendan Ryan. Lopez is on the disabled list with a strained ligament in his right elbow, and it will be two weeks before it’s determined if he can begin a throwing program at that time. Ryan and second baseman Skip Schumaker have both scuffled offensively so far this season, and Ryan is a profound funk.

The backup for their spots is prospect Tyler Greene, who disappointed in spring.

Miles served in that utility role and second base spot during his previous stint as a Cardinal.

Miles left the Cardinals after the 2008 season to sign with the Chicago Cubs.

He’s been with other teams since, shuttling from Oakland to Cincinnati. He was the last player cut from the Reds’ roster at the end of spring training this season.

Miles hit .289 as a Cardinal, and he batted a career-high .317 in 2008.

The club also moved backup catcher Jason LaRue from the disabled list to the active roster for tonight’s game against Atlanta. The Cardinals optioned Bryan Anderson to Class AAA Memphis.

[Frazod]

Miles was horrible when he played for the Cubs. If he could get back to his '06 form I'd love to have him back, but that's a pretty big "if."

[seclark]

Originally Posted by frazod

Miles was horrible when he played for the Cubs. If he could get back to his '06 form I'd love to have him back, but that's a pretty big "if."

lots of water under that bridge.
sec

[Frazod]

Another great night of management by ****tard LaRussa. Has burned through almost the entire bullpen with a 1 run lead in the 8th inning.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by frazod

Miles was horrible when he played for the Cubs. If he could get back to his '06 form I'd love to have him back, but that's a pretty big "if."

Insurance against Lopez having a long term issue?

[Reaper16]

Just popping in to see how a real MLB franchise is doing. Are things alright? Do the Cards have a bullpen ERA under 25.00? Does Wainwright have a single win to his name?

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by frazod

Another great night of management by ****tard LaRussa. Has burned through almost the entire bullpen with a 1 run lead in the 8th inning.

And then Motte comes in an throws 6 straight balls. But hey he got the job done.