Football USA Today: Ranking the decision makers: Who is best at the NFL draft? - Page 9

**Tribal Warfare** · 04-30-2010, 04:31 PM

Ranking the decision makers: Who is best at the NFL draft?

Yahoo! Buzz
By Nate Davis, USA TODAY
So which franchise really stands the best chance to reap the most from its rookies now that the 2010 NFL draft has concluded? USA TODAY ranked the 20 league personnel executives who have been on the job for at least three years with their current team (the exception being Scott Pioli) to try and get a better idea as to who scores touchdowns in April, who settles for field goals and who coughs it up.

REPORT CARD: Grading the 2010 NFL draft class

1A. Bill Belichick, head coach/el jefe supremo, New England Patriots— Little point in arguing after he transformed a franchise that seemed to be in decline into a three-time Super Bowl champion virtually overnight. Clearly Belichick learned a lot after the five putrid drafts the Cleveland Browns produced during his tenure there in the 1990s. New England has become known for its deft ability to amass quality picks and find excellent players later in the process who won't come with the price tag of a top-10 pick. Belichick has made seven second-round picks over the last two drafts and picked up an extra Round 2 pick next year after extracting it from the Carolina Panthers for a low third-round pick last Saturday. Key contributors such as receiver Deion Branch, defensive end Jarvis Green, tackle Matt Light and cornerback Asante Samuel all came at pick 48 or later. But Belichick knows how to find first-round stars, too, including 2008 defensive rookie of the year Jerod Mayo and Pro Bowlers Logan Mankins, Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork.

• Best pick: Tom Brady— The Patriots admit they got lucky finding him in the sixth round in 2000, but at least they were smarter than the 30 other teams that also passed on him multiple times. Probably the best value pick in the history of the NFL.

• Worst pick: Chad Jackson— The 36th pick of the 2006 draft only caught 13 passes for New England.

1B. Scott Pioli, GM, Kansas City Chiefs— He and Belichick are essentially inextricable when it comes to New England's ascendancy. It's too early to assess Pioli's tenure in K.C., though last weekend's haul looks to be among the best of the spring. But the Patriots' success on the personnel side is just as much a credit to Pioli's eye for talent as Belichick's. And the litany of players they plucked from college aside, Pioli and Belichick were masters of using picks as currency for established stars with depressed value (Corey Dillon, Randy Moss) and gems other teams didn't appreciate (Wes Welker). After a recent spotty draft record, the Chiefs were in desperate need of a draft craftsman like Pioli.

• Best pick: Matt Cassel— He barely played at USC, but Pioli took a flier on him in the seventh round of the 2005 draft anyway. Cassel proved in 2008 he can play at a Pro Bowl level, something Pioli is banking he will do for the Chiefs.

• Worst pick: Laurence Maroney— The 2006 first-rounder has never rushed for as many as 900 yards and probably never will for the Patriots, who have opted not to make him a featured back.

Ebolapox · 05-03-2010, 01:06 PM

good qbs make others around them better. cassel has not done that yet. by this definition of 'good qb,' cassel has not been a good qb. you do not give qbs who are 'not good' contracts like he got and trade picks for qbs who are 'not good.'

Amnorix · 05-03-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

It happens, maybe we'll all be wrong and Cassel will be fine, seriously I'd rather be wrong, being right really doesn't do much other than mean I get to watch more shitty football.

Do you guys think that Pioli thought/thinks that Cassel is the next Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, or that he's the next Phil Simms?

If anyone thought he was the former, then the Patriots wouldn't have only gotten a 2 out of it, right?

And if he's the latter, then he needs precisely what Pioli is giving him, right?

Mecca · 05-03-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H5N1

good qbs make others around them better. cassel has not done that yet. by this definition of 'good qb,' cassel has not been a good qb. you do not give qbs who are 'not good' contracts like he got and trade picks for qbs who are 'not good.'

We're basically taking a backwards approach, instead of our QB making everyone else better, we're getting guys to make our QB look better...especially by getting checkdown receivers for a guy who can't throw down field.

Amnorix · 05-03-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H5N1

good qbs make others around them better. cassel has not done that yet. by this definition of 'good qb,' cassel has not been a good qb. you do not give qbs who are 'not good' contracts like he got and trade picks for qbs who are 'not good.'

Yeah, but there's limits to that. Wilt Chamberlain couldn't beat Russell with his "4 cheerleaders" either.

Jordan needed Pippen.

Peyton can't do it all, obviously.

The list is endless. Making others around them better may get the 2009 Chiefs from shitty to sucky, but it's still sucky.

Amnorix · 05-03-2010, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

We're basically taking a backwards approach, instead of our QB making everyone else better, we're getting guys to make our QB look better...especially by getting checkdown receivers for a guy who can't throw down field.

Haven't you watched the NFL in the last 10 years? You think Brady won 3 Super Bowls by chucking 20 yards downfield?

You want to win, or just win YOUR way, presumably with Mad Bomber Lamonica calling the shots.

Mecca · 05-03-2010, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Yeah, but there's limits to that. Wilt Chamberlain couldn't beat Russell with his "4 cheerleaders" either.

Jordan needed Pippen.

Peyton can't do it all, obviously.

The list is endless. Making others around them better may get the 2009 Chiefs from shitty to sucky, but it's still sucky.

I get your point, the problem is when you sit down and watch, it wasn't like Cassel was out there playing his balls off and everyone was letting him down. He was just as much of a problem as everyone else was.

He better be using this entire offseason to practice properly throwing passes that travel more than 10 yards downfield.

Mecca · 05-03-2010, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Haven't you watched the NFL in the last 10 years? You think Brady won 3 Super Bowls by chucking 20 yards downfield?

You want to win, or just win YOUR way, presumably with Mad Bomber Lamonica calling the shots.

Ok you're misreading me, I'm not saying you have to throw bombs, but you have to at least have the threat of it.

A intermediate pass 10-20 yards is not asking that much either, the problem is Cassel is so inaccurate the further he gets downfield no team in the league respects those passes so the short passing game is clamped on.

Matt Cassel literally becomes a horrendous QB when the pass needs to travel longer than roughly 8 yards.

Ebolapox · 05-03-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Yeah, but there's limits to that. Wilt Chamberlain couldn't beat Russell with his "4 cheerleaders" either.

Jordan needed Pippen.

Peyton can't do it all, obviously.

The list is endless. Making others around them better may get the 2009 Chiefs from shitty to sucky, but it's still sucky.

but jordan looked dominant with nobody around him (other than an aging gervin, IIRC) in his rookie year. peyton looked great his rookie year with little around him (other than a marvin harrison who hadn't shown much in his career and if memory serves, marshall faulk)--26 tds, 28 ints. chamberlain didn't look like shit while he was putting up mad numbers.

I recall a few brief moments where cassel looked a bit better than absolute ass. but he never looked up to jordan or peyton levels (bringing up those around him). you have to show more than a few flashes--and I'm not convinced I saw more than one or two flashes. in the nfl today, you need one of those top qbs to win. at this moment, we don't have one of those guys.

Amnorix · 05-03-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Ok you're misreading me, I'm not saying you have to throw bombs, but you have to at least have the threat of it.

A intermediate pass 10-20 yards is not asking that much either, the problem is Cassel is so inaccurate the further he gets downfield no team in the league respects those passes so the short passing game is clamped on.

Matt Cassel literally becomes a horrendous QB when the pass needs to travel longer than roughly 8 yards.

You exaggerate. He can throw deep outs and such. He has a perfectly decent NFL arm. What he doesn't have is touch on deep balls to get them over defender's heads.

And I said that when he was first traded to you guys. It's an issue, and he'll need to overcome it or he'll always be a pretty limited QB. If he can master it, however, he'll do very well.

Ebolapox · 05-03-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

You exaggerate. He can throw deep outs and such. He has a perfectly decent NFL arm. What he doesn't have is touch on deep balls to get them over defender's heads.

And I said that when he was first traded to you guys. It's an issue, and he'll need to overcome it or he'll always be a pretty limited QB. If he can master it, however, he'll do very well.

that's actually one thing that makes me mildly optimistic... one could say that weis was one of the main causes of brady's success. if we're lucky, weis can mold whatever raw talent cassel has (I'm not sure how much is there, I'm no nfl scout) and turn him into something we haven't seen before. brady wasn't always brady, if you know what I mean.

Amnorix · 05-03-2010, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H5N1

but jordan looked dominant with nobody around him (other than an aging gervin, IIRC) in his rookie year. peyton looked great his rookie year with little around him (other than a marvin harrison who hadn't shown much in his career and if memory serves, marshall faulk)--26 tds, 28 ints. chamberlain didn't look like shit while he was putting up mad numbers.

I recall a few brief moments where cassel looked a bit better than absolute ass. but he never looked up to jordan or peyton levels (bringing up those around him). you have to show more than a few flashes--and I'm not convinced I saw more than one or two flashes. in the nfl today, you need one of those top qbs to win. at this moment, we don't have one of those guys.

First, you don't need a "top" QB to win. Brady wasn't really a "top" QB in 2001. He was a game manager. Roethlisberger has won twice by being a very good (not great) QB with a very good or great running game and defense in support.

Eli Freaking Manning won by defense, as did the Ravens in 2000 and the Bucs in, err, whatever year they won it. '02 I guess.

But you do need an above-average QB. Average probably doesn't get it done unless you have an epic level defense.

Second, football isn't like the other sports. The QB can look a bit ridiculous if he hasn't got much talent around him because the offense needs to be a precision instrument. And citing Manning's rookie year isn't necessarily relevant -- I think we all agree CAssel doesn't have his upside.

The question is what is his upper limit. I think it's a top half of the NFL QB, at least.

Amnorix · 05-03-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H5N1

that's actually one thing that makes me mildly optimistic... one could say that weis was one of the main causes of brady's success. if we're lucky, weis can mold whatever raw talent cassel has (I'm not sure how much is there, I'm no nfl scout) and turn him into something we haven't seen before. brady wasn't always brady, if you know what I mean.

Agree with all of this, no question.

Ebolapox · 05-03-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

First, you don't need a "top" QB to win. Brady wasn't really a "top" QB in 2001. He was a game manager. Roethlisberger has won twice by being a very good (not great) QB with a very good or great running game and defense in support.

Eli Freaking Manning won by defense, as did the Ravens in 2000 and the Bucs in, err, whatever year they won it. '02 I guess.

But you do need an above-average QB. Average probably doesn't get it done unless you have an epic level defense.

unfortunately, average would've been an improvement last year. dude, you apparently didn't watch cassel much last year. horrific. oh, he flashed a few times last year; but not enough to make me any more than slightly optimistic (thanks to weis). and our defense is a ways away (unless ty-jack comes through, we find a nose tackle somewhere, dj steps up, and berry is all world. best case scenario is maybe 10th ranked defense). we'll be lucky if cassel can step up to slightly above average and the defense can step up.

Mecca · 05-03-2010, 01:25 PM

It's not his arm strength that's the problem, it's his lack of accuracy with it...

Cassel has a lot of things he has to overcome just to become a solid QB, consistency with accuracy, pocket presence, that's another major issue of his.

Ebolapox · 05-03-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

It's not his arm strength that's the problem, it's his lack of accuracy with it...

Cassel has a lot of things he has to overcome just to become a solid QB, consistency with accuracy, pocket presence, that's another major issue of his.

I can't recall where I read it, but an article from a while back (from an undisclosed gm) stated that pocket presence can be 'learned'--that it's a feel that you get the more experience you have.

sitting as long as he did (college plus through two years ago) is a long time to sit--if weis can work with him on accuracy and he obtains some pocket presence via just getting more reps in, we may have better than average on our hands. but I'm not holding my breath.

04-30-2010, 04:31 PM
Tribal Warfare Man of Culture Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $-3037187	USA Today: Ranking the decision makers: Who is best at the NFL draft? Ranking the decision makers: Who is best at the NFL draft? Yahoo! Buzz By Nate Davis, USA TODAY So which franchise really stands the best chance to reap the most from its rookies now that the 2010 NFL draft has concluded? USA TODAY ranked the 20 league personnel executives who have been on the job for at least three years with their current team (the exception being Scott Pioli) to try and get a better idea as to who scores touchdowns in April, who settles for field goals and who coughs it up. REPORT CARD: Grading the 2010 NFL draft class 1A. Bill Belichick, head coach/el jefe supremo, New England Patriots— Little point in arguing after he transformed a franchise that seemed to be in decline into a three-time Super Bowl champion virtually overnight. Clearly Belichick learned a lot after the five putrid drafts the Cleveland Browns produced during his tenure there in the 1990s. New England has become known for its deft ability to amass quality picks and find excellent players later in the process who won't come with the price tag of a top-10 pick. Belichick has made seven second-round picks over the last two drafts and picked up an extra Round 2 pick next year after extracting it from the Carolina Panthers for a low third-round pick last Saturday. Key contributors such as receiver Deion Branch, defensive end Jarvis Green, tackle Matt Light and cornerback Asante Samuel all came at pick 48 or later. But Belichick knows how to find first-round stars, too, including 2008 defensive rookie of the year Jerod Mayo and Pro Bowlers Logan Mankins, Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork. • Best pick: Tom Brady— The Patriots admit they got lucky finding him in the sixth round in 2000, but at least they were smarter than the 30 other teams that also passed on him multiple times. Probably the best value pick in the history of the NFL. • Worst pick: Chad Jackson— The 36th pick of the 2006 draft only caught 13 passes for New England. 1B. Scott Pioli, GM, Kansas City Chiefs— He and Belichick are essentially inextricable when it comes to New England's ascendancy. It's too early to assess Pioli's tenure in K.C., though last weekend's haul looks to be among the best of the spring. But the Patriots' success on the personnel side is just as much a credit to Pioli's eye for talent as Belichick's. And the litany of players they plucked from college aside, Pioli and Belichick were masters of using picks as currency for established stars with depressed value (Corey Dillon, Randy Moss) and gems other teams didn't appreciate (Wes Welker). After a recent spotty draft record, the Chiefs were in desperate need of a draft craftsman like Pioli. • Best pick: Matt Cassel— He barely played at USC, but Pioli took a flier on him in the seventh round of the 2005 draft anyway. Cassel proved in 2008 he can play at a Pro Bowl level, something Pioli is banking he will do for the Chiefs. • Worst pick: Laurence Maroney— The 2006 first-rounder has never rushed for as many as 900 yards and probably never will for the Patriots, who have opted not to make him a featured back.
Posts: 43,455

05-03-2010, 01:06 PM	#121
Ebolapox remember, remember Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: como Casino cash: $-1820097	good qbs make others around them better. cassel has not done that yet. by this definition of 'good qb,' cassel has not been a good qb. you do not give qbs who are 'not good' contracts like he got and trade picks for qbs who are 'not good.'
Posts: 26,523

05-03-2010, 01:25 PM	#134
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-742950	It's not his arm strength that's the problem, it's his lack of accuracy with it... Cassel has a lot of things he has to overcome just to become a solid QB, consistency with accuracy, pocket presence, that's another major issue of his.
Posts: 115,382