Haley thinks Cassel's problem was the players around him

[Quesadilla Joe]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...rs-around-him/

After signing a $40 million contract and leaving the Patriots for the Chiefs last year, quarterback Matt Cassel saw his passer rating drop from 89.4 in 2008 to 69.9 in 2009.

Chiefs coach Todd Haley thinks that had less to do with Cassel and more to do with the players around him.

"We had 50-plus drops last season. If those don't happen, people would look at Cassel differently," Haley told ESPN.com. "If we get the improved offensive play around him that we hope to, I think people will feel better about Matt Cassel."

Haley thinks the Chiefs have improved the talent on offense, and he says Cassel is doing the necessary work this offseason to make people feel better about him.

"This guy is making progress in a bunch of ways," Haley said. "He had a very difficult year last year, but he didn't crack. That's a good sign. He has been one of our best workers this offseason, if not the best. He's working."

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

That's irrelevant to my question. Ignoring the QB, how many offensive players were playing at even a decent NFL level in the first half of the year?

It's completely relevant.

Your point is destroyed because he played just as bad, if not worse, when the talent around him improved.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Of course, you ignore the reality that scrambling is part of what scrambling QBs do, that there was generally no pocket to stay in, and the impact that the 10 players who were not playing at decent NFL level around him would have upon him game after game.

So your analysis is worthless, but you got to crack out another insult to someone who got it more accurately than you did. 50/50 post for you. Congrats!

No dumbass, I didn't ignore a thing.

First, Cassel is not a scrambling QB.
He has some good mobility, but he isn't a scrambler.

And the fact is, scrambling QBs scramble of necessity, not simply because they can.

The best scrambler ever, Fran Tarkenton, was first and foremost, a playmaker in the pocket.

The same can be said for Roger Staubach.

As it can for many others.

And the fact remains, there was a pocket to remain in far more than you give this team credit for.

Did he face pressure often?

Yes.

But not nearly to the extent that you are trying to sell.

Sell your bullshit, Pioli/Cassel ball washing elswhere.

I ain't buying it.

[Mr. Laz]

part of the problem for Cassel was the player around him

it was also

a new team
new coaches
2 new schemes
a late preseason knee injury
jittery feet
inaccuracy
poor mechanics

some idiots just focus on the last 3 and ignore the rest

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by milkman

Sell your bullshit, Pioli/Cassel ball washing elswhere.

I ain't buying it.

NO DEAL!

(Nick Athan shudders somewhere in cyberspace)

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

It's completely relevant.

Your point is destroyed because he played just as bad, if not worse, when the talent around him improved.

Given that you had no idea what my point was going to be, claiming that it was destroyed makes no sense at all.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by milkman

No dumbass, I didn't ignore a thing.

First, Cassel is not a scrambling QB.
He has some good mobility, but he isn't a scrambler.

And the fact is, scrambling QBs scramble of necessity, not simply because they can.

The best scrambler ever, Fran Tarkenton, was first and foremost, a playmaker in the pocket.

The same can be said for Roger Staubach.

As it can for many others.

And the fact remains, there was a pocket to remain in far more than you give this team credit for.

Did he face pressure often?

Yes.

But not nearly to the extent that you are trying to sell.

Sell your bullshit, Pioli/Cassel ball washing elswhere.

I ain't buying it.

Wait.... Cassel isn't a scrambling QB?




****ing brilliant.


Now tell us that Manning and Brady are just running backs playing the position of QB.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Given that you had no idea what my point was going to be, claiming that it was destroyed makes no sense at all.

Your point was very clearly that we can't judge Cassel too harshly because he was surrounded by dogshit in the first half of the season.

But your point is bullshit, because he continued to play at the same level, if not worse, when the talent around him improved.

Occam's razor states he just sucks.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Wait.... Cassel isn't a scrambling QB?




****ing brilliant.


Now tell us that Manning and Brady are just running backs playing the position of QB.

Running away then bending over to take it in the ass isn't "scrambling".

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Your point was very clearly that we can't judge Cassel too harshly because he was surrounded by dogshit in the first half of the season.

But your point is bullshit, because he continued to play at the same level, if not worse, when the talent around him improved.

Occam's razor states he just sucks.

The Razor has indeed spoken.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

Your point was very clearly that we can't judge Cassel too harshly because he was surrounded by dogshit in the first half of the season.

But your point is bullshit, because he continued to play at the same level, if not worse, when the talent around him improved.

Occam's razor states he just sucks.

No, no. He was so mentally damaged by all of the circumstances around him that he developed bad habits that he couldn't possibly overcome, even when we we had the best running game outside of TN.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Wait.... Cassel isn't a scrambling QB?




****ing brilliant.


Now tell us that Manning and Brady are just running backs playing the position of QB.

You clearly don't even know what a scrambler is.

A scrambler is a guy that can make time behind the line to make plays with his arm.

Matt Cassel is a QB that can run.

There's a big difference.

But, you're a ****ing idiot, so explaining it to you is a waste of keystrokes.

[Titty Meat]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Croyle's the better QB....it's not even an argument.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by milkman

You clearly don't even know what a scrambler is.

A scrambler is a guy that can make time behind the line to make plays with his arm.

Matt Cassel is a QB that can run.

There's a big difference.

But, you're a ****ing idiot, so explaining it to you is a waste of keystrokes.

A scrambler is a QB who's response to perceived pressure is to run, either to buy time behind the line or to gain yardage with his feet.

A running QB is a QB who's instinct to run is not necessarily impacted by pressure.


You have nothing to explain to me, because you're searching for reasons to bitch rather than making honest evaluations. That's too bad, too. When you're not being an emotionally invested asshole regarding the players, you're one of the better analysts here.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

No, no. He was so mentally damaged by all of the circumstances around him that he developed bad habits that he couldn't possibly overcome, even when we we had the best running game outside of TN.

Mentally damaged is over the top. However, players can develop bad habits over the course of time. Cassel wasn't a great QB in the first half of the season, by any stretch, and I'm not making any such claim. However, he was better in the first half than the second, and it's likely that much of that was because of the toll the games took on him. Once a QB starts looking for the rush and stops trusting his receivers, all sorts of bad habits will set in. As a Chiefs fan, you should be hoping that those habits will be dealt with during the offseason, because Cassel's apparently going to be the starter again, whether you like it or not.

The same sort of thing happened in New England, though at a different level. Brady's knee made him more skittish in the pocket, caused his drops to be different, and made him less willing to take a hit. The fact that the team's 3rd wideout was a special teams player who was horrible as a receiver meant that Brady stopped looking his way and began staring down his #1 and #2 receivers, with the resulting bad plays that you'd expect. The results were stark: once the Welker binky was gone and the team had to face the Ravens without him, Brady had one of the worst games of his career. Brady's season numbers were the second best in his career, yet it was clear that he wasn't the Brady he'd been pre-injury, and that impacted the offense and the team.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

A running QB is a QB who's instinct to run is not necessarily impacted by pressure.

Thanks for making my point.

Originally Posted by milkman

Even in the first half of the season before the play improved, he left the pocket well before he had too in many of those situations that you refer to as "running for his life", a problem that I bitched about again and again as the season progressed from week one, and sonething that I noted he did when I watched replays of the Patriot games on NFLN from '08.