Berry is a bust

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

He wasn't being nuanced at all. He was bitching. It was hilarious. He sounded like a toddler throwing a tantrum.

He didn't want to draft a safety, so there's no question that some of what you're saying is right. But he was also making an implicit comparison to the Tyson Jackson hate, which is somewhat fair, and this is what I was alluding to in my first post in this thread.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

He didn't want to draft a safety, so there's no question that some of what you're saying is right. But he was also making an implicit comparison to the Tyson Jackson hate, which is somewhat fair, and this is what I was alluding to in my first post in this thread.

How is that somewhat fair? Did we see anything in Jackson's play all last season that indicated he would grow into a force? No, and especially not in the first two games he played.

Have we seen anything in Berry's play that indicates he will grow into a force? Absolutely. Yes.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

How is that somewhat fair? Did we see anything in Jackson's play all last season that indicated he would grow into a force? No, and especially not in the first two games he played.

Have we seen anything in Berry's play that indicates he will grow into a force? Absolutely. Yes.

Two games is not a large enough sample size, and I do think that it's far more reasonable to expect earlier results from a DB than a D-lineman.

The college careers (and perceived levels of talent) are unquestionably directing these discussions more than the play on the field through 2 games of their careers.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Two games is not a large enough sample size, and I do think that it's far more reasonable to expect earlier results from a DB than a D-lineman.

I don't think it's a coincidence that Jackson's best pro start was his 17th, after a full season starting and his first full professional offseason. Hopefully he starts the 2011 season with an equivalent boost.

I think Dorsey is a perfect example of the development curve for a DL, although he's obviously been impacted by his chronic injury issue and the change in scheme and coordinator.

The college careers (and perceived levels of talent) are unquestionably directing these discussions more than the play on the field through 2 games of their careers.

There's some synchronicity, that's the point I was just trying to make, although I struggled with trying to verbalize it.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

How is that somewhat fair? Did we see anything in Jackson's play all last season that indicated he would grow into a force? No, and especially not in the first two games he played.

Have we seen anything in Berry's play that indicates he will grow into a force? Absolutely. Yes.

C'mon. The guy made a tackle behind the line of scrimmage. A shoulder tackle at that. BFD. He's also given up two touchdowns on blown coverage. If that would have been McGraw, this place would be all over his nuts.

He's a rookie. He should get some time to adjust. However, if he keeps blowing coverage plays, he's not Ed Reed, he's Laron Landry.

To this point, including the preseason, he's being outplayed by Kendrick Lewis, who has been very solid on pass plays.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

C'mon. The guy made a tackle behind the line of scrimmage. A shoulder tackle at that. BFD. He's also given up two touchdowns on blown coverage. If that would have been McGraw, this place would be all over his nuts.

He's a rookie. He should get some time to adjust. However, if he keeps blowing coverage plays, he's not Ed Reed, he's Laron Landry.

To this point, including the preseason, he's being outplayed by Kendrick Lewis, who has been very solid on pass plays.

All I'm seeing is Russel Okung.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

He didn't want to draft a safety, so there's no question that some of what you're saying is right. But he was also making an implicit comparison to the Tyson Jackson hate, which is somewhat fair, and this is what I was alluding to in my first post in this thread.

As others have pointed out, however, he was taking the comparison 180 degrees in the wrong direction. We should have handled Jackson's development they way we're handling Berry's, not treat Barry like Jackson.

I thought it was a poor selection from a pre-draft standpoint (talking about Jackson), but that's a completely separate issue from looking at his development post-draft. I think that's something a lot of people have real trouble with, separating draft discussion (which is essentially meaningless once the picks have been made) from actual NFL performance.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

As others have pointed out, however, he was taking the comparison 180 degrees in the wrong direction. We should have handled Jackson's development they way we're handling Berry's, not treat Barry like Jackson.

I agree with this, but I think the 180 difference was to use the absurd to highlight the overreactions to Jackson. This could be giving Petro too much credit. Maybe not, though.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I agree with this, but I think the 180 difference was to use the absurd to highlight the overreactions to Jackson. This could be giving Petro too much credit. Maybe not, though.

I think in this case it's giving Petro too much credit. He was painting Jackson and Dorsey both in the same light as Berry early in his rant, before he really got going. How we can't keep missing on top-5 picks, that one of these guys has to be Willis.

Either way, it's just nuts what he was saying about Berry. Obviously he was exaggerating out the wazoo, but all that does is hurt an already weak point. There's nothing sensible about portraying his play through the first two weeks as completely incompetent, like he's being burned on every snap.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I think in this case it's giving Petro too much credit. He was painting Jackson and Dorsey both in the same light as Berry early in his rant, before he really got going. How we can't keep missing on top-5 picks, that one of these guys has to be Willis.

Either way, it's just nuts what he was saying about Berry. Obviously he was exaggerating out the wazoo, but all that does is hurt an already weak point. There's nothing sensible about portraying his play through the first two weeks as completely incompetent, like he's being burned on every snap.

Definitely not.

[chiefsnorth]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

As others have pointed out, however, he was taking the comparison 180 degrees in the wrong direction. We should have handled Jackson's development they way we're handling Berry's, not treat Barry like Jackson.

I thought it was a poor selection from a pre-draft standpoint (talking about Jackson), but that's a completely separate issue from looking at his development post-draft. I think that's something a lot of people have real trouble with, separating draft discussion (which is essentially meaningless once the picks have been made) from actual NFL performance.

Great post. Where we go wrong is rooting against players when their failure would prove us right about our pre-draft ideas and give us another chip or two or Internet capital (or so we think).