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Old 10-11-2010, 10:28 AM  
TheGuardian TheGuardian is offline
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Haley gambled to win
Quote:
Haley researched game-opening onside kicks back to 2000 and found the team that tried it won six of 11 games.
Make up your mind. When you get a guy like Herm or Marty in people complain "they play not to lose. I just want a guy that plays to win."

Then you get a guy like Haley in who opens with an onside kick and people say "that was stupid. he seemed intimidated."

Intimidated by opening with an onside kick? How stupid can you be? That's gambling. That's playing to win. Going for it on 4th down was playing to win. Why? Because he doesn't have faith in Cassel so he knows he's going to have to do some unconventional things for that to happen. Shit man, credit the coach for being smart enough to understand these things rather than put his head in the sand about it. Haley would drop Cassel for an upgrade in a heartbeat if he could right now. Bet on it. Cassel won't be QB'ing this team next year unless he has some kind of crazy turn around.

In the meantime complaining about things like the onside kick and going for it on 4th are stupid. We were on the road, in Indy where they generally blow people out. Haley figured we would need to manufacture some points and take some possessions away from Manning in order to win so he went with that in mind. And it almost worked if not for a single dropped pass (for the most part). Haley and this coaching staff have led us to 3-1 and more than likely we will be 5-3 or better midway. At this point, outside of bitching about Cassel, there really isn't much to complain about.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:05 AM   #31
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If it was 4th and less than a yard it might be ok to go for it, but it was 4th and a long 2 from the 4 and you have to take the points in that situation.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:06 AM   #32
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Loved the call and loved the 4th down call.

I agree, calling out Herm AND Haley, one for being the guy who doesn't do it and one for being the guy who does, is stupid.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:06 AM   #33
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And then kick it a couple of times into the referee's eyeball!!! 'Cause we're FRIGGIN' CRAZY!!!

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Old 10-11-2010, 11:06 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by DeezNutz View Post
Absolutely. Going into IND, common sense would certainly suggest the need for a lot of points and an extra possession or two.

And I agree that Haley seems flexible in his approach to coaching, which is refreshing.
Yup yup. So I expect to see him play it a bit more close to the vest and take some gambles here and there. So I think we will see our offense be a bit predictable and conservative for a while unless something changes. Haley will try to win with his strengths and not fit round pegs into square holes.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:07 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
I'd much rather have the Chiefs be unpredictable than predictable.
Well said. I would take our current offensive scheming every time over LJ trying to play butt darts with our offensive lineman all day.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:09 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAX View Post
Going for it was his call, sure.

But, the actual play call itself? Do you not think Weis was consulted?

FAX
I think the play call came from Weis when they were huddled on the sideline. I think Haley had every opportunity to overrule and to know better than to leave that into Cassel's hands - especially when we were ABUSING them on the end run. Either way, the HC takes the fall on that one. Haley has had enough time with Matt to know that his decision-making (especially under pressure) is for shit. Put the ball into the running back's hands and let him take you to pay dirt.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:10 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spott View Post
If it was 4th and less than a yard it might be ok to go for it, but it was 4th and a long 2 from the 4 and you have to take the points in that situation.
I disagree, Mr. Spott. Hate to do it, but I must.

Look, normally the Mannings score about a billion points per game ... probably more like an average of 2 billion at home. At that juncture, there was every reason to believe that we were either going to go down in flames or have to score touchdowns in order to keep it close.

There was absolutely no reason to believe otherwise.

And, can we get a friggin' holding call, please? Can you just call one out of 10 or something? Jesus.

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Old 10-11-2010, 11:14 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTown View Post
I think the play call came from Weis when they were huddled on the sideline. I think Haley had every opportunity to overrule and to know better than to leave that into Cassel's hands - especially when we were ABUSING them on the end run. Either way, the HC takes the fall on that one. Haley has had enough time with Matt to know that his decision-making (especially under pressure) is for shit. Put the ball into the running back's hands and let him take you to pay dirt.
I don't disagree with this. Haley could have overruled, certainly. And both he and Giant Spikey Head Man well know that Mike Cassdrip is a moron and, likely, getting paid under the table by our foes to screw up our team.

But, like you, I agree that a running play would probably have worked. I was expecting it and we had been running strong to the left on that drive. Hell, Charles might have scored on that previous play where he was stripped of the ball .. that was the same drive, wasn't it?

Anyhow, the HC has to take the heat for the decision ... I agree. I'm just not sure he's going to overrule Giant Spikey Head Man on a deal like that.

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Old 10-11-2010, 11:15 AM   #39
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:19 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Hydrae View Post
Yep, it was 4th and 2. There was no need to go to the end zone on that throw. Castille was wide open for at least a 1st down if not the touchdown. That is entirely on Cassell's lack of vision.
Don't forget his lack of throwing talent, and poor pocket awareness.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:42 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by DeezNutz View Post
I have no problem with either decision. None.

However, perhaps Haley has underestimated his own team a bit because we ultimately didn't have to do anything unconventional or ultra-aggressive to win yesterday.
One thing I would point out is that the "unconventional 4th down call" is actually statistically the right move. It has a higher value of expected points. (Caveat -- I haven't checked this particular down-distance-field position scenario).

Sometimes the conservative move is just plain wrong. If you are saving money for retirement, putting all of your money in a savings account at the age of 20 is just a plain wrong move, even though it looks "conservative". Similarly if you automatically take the 3 points in that situation, when the expected value of going for it on fourth down is higher (say 4 points), then it is actually a decision that has a negative impact on winning, even though it is "conservative".
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:05 PM   #42
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I disagreed,but understood fourth down, I will not say I dislike haley for this call. I liked the onside kick to start the game, shows faith in the defense. Haley basically said I believe we can do it, and if not, our D is good enough to stop them. I do enjoy the gambler in him, and have enjoyed the chances he takes, it is incredibly refreshing after the parade of, well, guess we have to call them coaches, we had before him.
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:10 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
One thing I would point out is that the "unconventional 4th down call" is actually statistically the right move. It has a higher value of expected points. (Caveat -- I haven't checked this particular down-distance-field position scenario).

Sometimes the conservative move is just plain wrong. If you are saving money for retirement, putting all of your money in a savings account at the age of 20 is just a plain wrong move, even though it looks "conservative". Similarly if you automatically take the 3 points in that situation, when the expected value of going for it on fourth down is higher (say 4 points), then it is actually a decision that has a negative impact on winning, even though it is "conservative".
Great points.
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:19 PM   #44
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I hated the fourth down attempt and this is why:

1. We just held them to a field goal on a short field. That was huge. Our defense was playing well, so have a little faith in them.

2. Our offense had marched down the field on an excellent drive. No need to act like we can't do it again. Take the points. Sometimes conservative isn't a dirty word.


FTR I liked the onside to start.
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:20 PM   #45
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I was surprised with the onside kick and thought maybe Haley was trying to rattle the Colts by letting them know right away that the Chiefs would be unpredictable. Against the 49ers, it was quite the chess match and it worked; San Fransisco's coaching staff got owned. When KC went for it on 4th down and didn't make the TD, that was one call I didn't like. I think tying the score would have been a good thing at that point. Sure, the lead is better, but putting the first points on the board for the team looked like the way to go to me. When Cassel threw into quadruple coverage on the other attempt, I could see he was locked in on Bowe the whole time. If he was quick to assess the situation, couldn't he have run the ball and at least made a first down? Seeing four men converge on Bowe should have made him think, "I saw how many came in to rush, plus four... someone is open or I have space to run..." and then do it! If I recall, it was 4th and 2, and not 4th and goal? It seems that the closer to the goal line, the less creative Cassel becomes.
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