Flowers and Hali in the running for PFF Defensive Player of the Year

[Hammock Parties]

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...le-has-landed/

2. Tamba Hali (Chiefs, +25.1)
Perhaps the best pure pass rusher in the league this year. League-leading 43 total quarterback pressures, and without a single penalty. He’s not as great in run support, but he’s good enough.

3. Brandon Flowers (Chiefs, +15.8)
So he hasn’t got an island named after himself yet, but Flowers just keeps on making plays. Yet to allow a touchdown with only 39% of passes his way completed, and has a personal passer rating against of 28.8. In 41 targets, he’s only allowed one pass of 20+ yards. Stellar.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Contrary to popular belief, they don't hold a public weigh-in every 6 months.

There is no evidence or even close to anything to suggest that the claim is true, except for the fact that he's twice as quick off the edge, his head looks smaller, his body looks leaner, he was part of a massive team weight loss program in year 1, and he is succeeding at a position where speed is a lot more important than the bullrushing he used to do in a 4-3. Other than that, there is nothing to even remotely suggest that he's lost weight and gotten leaner.

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

As far as his weight loss/weight gain thing, I have no idea. However I do know that he LOOKS different than years past. More muscular and leaner. He very well could be heavier but have done it through more mass gain while also shedding some bodyfat. Either way, his stouter at the point against the run and that elusive step that people complained about is suddenly there, and I don't think it's a coincidence that his physique also looks very different now too. Fat is not a friend of speed. Maybe Hali had that step all along, but was just carrying too much fat at the time. This is very possible.

You guys are just a little late to the party.

Marcellus and I already came to an agreement, of sorts, that this is what is actually being discussed.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by milkman

You guys are just a little late to the party.

Marcellus and I already came to an agreement, of sorts, that this is what is actually being discussed.

I was just adding to your guys discussion............

[donkhater]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Are you for real?

He completely dominated that San Fran front and was a big reason we ran away with that game.

This board overrates the actual sack and underrates everything else because most of the people here underrate now too. Fat is not a friend of speed. Maybe Hali had that step all along, but was just carrying too much fat at the time. This is very possible.

So just because I don't consider him the best in the game, I'm underrating him?

He's been a pleasant surprise. I was wrong about what he could become. I just think it's an overstatement to say he is the most feared pass rusher in the game. Because I disagree with that absurd statement I'm a Hali hater?

[milkman]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

I was just adding to your guys discussion............

Just felt I needed to point that out, since, you know, everyone is always wanting to jump on the chance to point out whenever someone gets something wrong.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

.....he was part of a massive team weight loss program in year 1,.....

You could have been on to something except this.

I will say this one more time and that's it.

2009 off season the infamous 700lbs lost, 1 week before the regular season I am at the KO luncheon talking to Hali who is sitting at our table.

I specifically ask him about the whole emphasis on losing weight etc that you are referring to....He tells me he gained weight he did not lose weight. He had to put on weight to play OLB in the 3-4.

What part of that is confusing?

Yes he may have dropped fat, gained muscle etc...He did not lose weight and was not part of the year 1 purge.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by milkman

Just felt I needed to point that out, since, you know, everyone is always wanting to jump on the chance to point out whenever someone gets something wrong.

Actually my take supports both of you guys. I think that Hali may be heavier, however his physique has changed a lot so he looks very different. Enough that to the casual observer he could look like he's lighter because he is leaner.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

You could have been on to something except this.

I will say this one more time and that's it.

2009 off season the infamous 700lbs lost, 1 week before the regular season I am at the KO luncheon talking to Hali who is sitting at our table.

I specifically ask him about the whole emphasis on losing weight etc that you are referring to....He tells me he gained weight he did not lose weight. He had to put on weight to play OLB in the 3-4.

What part of that is confusing?

Yes he may have dropped fat, gained muscle etc...He did not lose weight and was not part of the year 1 purge.

Well that's settled then. Horses mouff and all that.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

You could have been on to something except this.

I will say this one more time and that's it.

2009 off season the infamous 700lbs lost, 1 week before the regular season I am at the KO luncheon talking to Hali who is sitting at our table.

I specifically ask him about the whole emphasis on losing weight etc that you are referring to....He tells me he gained weight he did not lose weight. He had to put on weight to play OLB in the 3-4.

What part of that is confusing?

Yes he may have dropped fat, gained muscle etc...He did not lose weight and was not part of the year 1 purge.

I don't know what they had him playing at in 2008.

What I do know is that in 2009, they had him playing at 260 which is significantly less than the 275 he played most of his career at prior to the 4-3.

So yes, he lost weight. Maybe you're right that he didn't lose much weight between 2008 and 2009. But I'm pretty sure he's playing at a much lower weight than he weighed most of his career.

[rad]

Isn't Hali one of the most held passrushers in the league as well?

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by rad

Isn't Hali one of the most held passrushers in the league as well?

WEll one of the most held that never gets a flag for sure.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by rad

Isn't Hali one of the most held passrushers in the league as well?

Until we draft his sidekick.

We definitely need a bruiser MLB or an opposite edge rusher...

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Rausch

Until we draft his sidekick.

We definitely need a bruiser MLB or an opposite edge rusher...

This is something I've been struggling with. Not many 3-4 defenses have an outstanding pass rusher on the left side. I'm not convinced this is the answer.

I know I"m alone on this, but I think Shaun Smith is average at best against the pass and Ron Edwards has been so-so this season. I think the bigger key to the pass rush is getting good contribution from Tyson Jackson on pass downs and getting a consistently legit presence at NT.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

This is something I've been struggling with. Not many 3-4 defenses have an outstanding pass rusher on the left side. I'm not convinced this is the answer.

I know I"m alone on this, but I think Shaun Smith is average at best against the pass and Ron Edwards has been so-so this season. I think the bigger key to the pass rush is getting good contribution from Tyson Jackson on pass downs and getting a consistently legit presence at NT.

You still need a rusher opposite of Hali. As I noted a lot of guys sacks come from the rush of another guy. This is why two good outside guys really compliment each other in a 3-4 front.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

You still need a rusher opposite of Hali. As I noted a lot of guys sacks come from the rush of another guy. This is why two good outside guys really compliment each other in a 3-4 front.

You do, but I think a lot of people think the answer is to put two elite pass rushers opposite each other. Pittsburgh is the only successful 3-4 defense that does that, unless someone can think of another team that does. Of course it's a great thing to have. I just happen to think that especially on the left side, you need a DE that is stout against the run, fluid enough to be effective in the pass, and puts just enough pressure to contain the QB. In other words, we don't need another Tamba Hali necessarily.

Because these guys aren't elite rushers, I think the best thing you can do for the other side of the rush is to get more consistent play from the defensive line. I like what Shaun Smith has done, but I think people need to watch him more carefully on passing downs. There are a lot of downs where he gets absolutely swallowed up.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

This is something I've been struggling with. Not many 3-4 defenses have an outstanding pass rusher on the left side. I'm not convinced this is the answer.

I know I"m alone on this, but I think Shaun Smith is average at best against the pass and Ron Edwards has been so-so this season. I think the bigger key to the pass rush is getting good contribution from Tyson Jackson on pass downs and getting a consistently legit presence at NT.

For the money (not that I care what he's paid. As a fan all that matters is he's tying up a $#it ton of cap space) you're damned right Jackson needs to produce.

And FTR all solid 3-4 defenses did have both a stud L and ROLB who could rush the passer.

Pitt goes without mention. When the Panthers first started off under Capers they were able to contend because they had Greene and Lloyd.

You absolutely must be ABLE to rush from either side. You don't do it every down but the ability to do so has to be there...