Chiefs Jovan Belcher, a gem found in the rough ? - Page 9

royr17 · 02-10-2011, 05:18 PM

http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/nfl/kc/?r=1

ESPN.com's Bill Williamson and Scouts Inc.'s Matt Williamson believe the Chiefs have found a "gem" in ILB Jovan Belcher.

Belcher was primarily a special teamer as an undrafted rookie in 2009. He graduated to full-time starter in 2010, racking up 84 tackles. "He's a heavier guy who is a good banger in the 3-4 defense," Matt Williamson said. "He seems like a hard-nosed guy who has made the best of opportunity." Expect Belcher to remain in the same role next season.

chiefzilla1501 · 02-11-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

No, I think it's ridiculous that anyone thinks that NT's like Ngata or Raji grow on trees and that at this point in time, the Chiefs need to upgrade the interior of their defense any way they possibly can.

If there's an opportunity to upgrade any position on the Chiefs roster, they should absolutely perform their due diligence and make that move. Behind Belcher and DJ there's no one that can step in and play at a high level.

As I said earlier, I find it unlikely the Chiefs will find a player the caliber of Ngata or Raji this offseason, and something has to be done to greatly improve the interior of the front seven.

Here's the thing. We saw what Belcher can do with negative play from the NT. So right now, any new NT has to do better than "garbage." If we get average NT play, that in itself will make Belcher a lot better.

And I'm not convinced at all that a good NT is that hard to find. Most NTs are taken in the later rounds, and they are among the lowest paid players on defense (which is odd, given how crucial they are to the defense). We're seeing NTs like Pickett, Aubrayo Franklin, and Kyle Williams play solid at the position out of obscurity.

It just so happens that Pioli has made zero effort to bring one in. And some of that is due to bad luck. I'm still pretty convinced that if last year wasn't uncapped, the Chiefs would have been strong players in the Wilfork sweepstakes.

seaofred · 02-11-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The main point I've tried to stress throughout this thread is that the Chiefs need to improve the interior of their defense and it would be foolish to pass on anyone that could do so because Belcher's is on the roster.

So if the interior of the D needs upgraded, when do we start talking about upgrading DJ?

**SAUTO** · 02-11-2011, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Bart Scott is one of the best inside linebackers in the league now.

Wow.

Bart has a big mouth and a bad temper, which gets him a lot of noise. But his actual play is above average. That's it.

i wanted him so bad when he was a FA

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-11-2011, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seaofred

So if the interior of the D needs upgraded, when do we start talking about upgrading DJ?

So you think that Derrick Johnson needs to be replaced?

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-11-2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And I'm not convinced at all that a good NT is that hard to find. Most NTs are taken in the later rounds, and they are among the lowest paid players on defense (which is odd, given how crucial they are to the defense). We're seeing NTs like Pickett, Aubrayo Franklin, and Kyle Williams play solid at the position out of obscurity.

Obscurity?

You're talking about a former first round draft as being "obscure"? And Franklin was a draft choice of the Ravens, who seem to know a thing or two about drafting and developing defensive players.

Furthermore, all of guys you've mentioned took years to get where they are today. It's highly unlikely that the Chiefs can pluck a 5th rounder out of the 2011 draft and see an immediate upgrade at the position.

It would be awesome, but unlikely.

DJ's left nut · 02-11-2011, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

So you think that Derrick Johnson needs to be replaced?

The Chiefs need to improve their interior defense. If they can find an obvious upgrade from Derrick Johnson, they should do it.

Ah, behold the power of meaningless truisms.

Saccopoo · 02-11-2011, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

No, I think it's ridiculous that anyone thinks that NT's like Ngata or Raji grow on trees and that at this point in time, the Chiefs need to upgrade the interior of their defense any way they possibly can.

Conversely, Dick Butkus', Mike Singletarys' and Pat Willis' don't grow on trees either. And, as people have pointed out, unless you upgrade the NT position, you are going to need a ILB of that caliber to effectively reach the goals/performance you are envisioning for this defense without a decent nose.

Johnson and Belcher showed a lot with not a lot of consistent production in front of them. You get some guys up there that can keep the offensive line guys from getting into the second level and they will have even better years than what you saw last season, which, in my opinion, was pretty damn good by both players.

Quote:

Furthermore, all of guys you've mentioned took years to get where they are today. It's highly unlikely that the Chiefs can pluck a 5th rounder out of the 2011 draft and see an immediate upgrade at the position.

It would be awesome, but unlikely.

Kyle Williams, who is currently the best nose tackle in the NFL, was a fifth rounder in 2006. You got to be a little lucky, but you also got to be good. There will be some guys at that area that might have a little Kyle Williams in them. The Ian Williams guy from Notre Dame and Sione Fua from Stanford should be there in the mid-rounds because they don't fit "the prototype" in terms of size, but both were very productive in college as nose tackles.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-11-2011, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The Chiefs need to improve their interior defense. If they can find an obvious upgrade from Derrick Johnson, they should do it.

Ah, behold the power of meaningless truisms.

Uh huh, nice way to bolster your claim, Counselor.

But you're right: Belcher was awesome in 2010 and the Chiefs shouldn't even consider upgrading the position.

My bad.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-11-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Belcher showed a lot with not a lot of consistent production in front of them.

Yeah, he clearly has shown that he's an amazing ILB that quickly sheds offensive lineman and makes tough tackles in the run game.

I couldn't believe his effectiveness against Darren McFadden and Knowshon Moreno. He was practically the defense in those games.

ChiefsCountry · 02-11-2011, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And I'm not convinced at all that a good NT is that hard to find. Most NTs are taken in the later rounds, and they are among the lowest paid players on defense (which is odd, given how crucial they are to the defense). We're seeing NTs like Pickett, Aubrayo Franklin, and Kyle Williams play solid at the position out of obscurity.

Yeah considering the top 3-4 defenses are built around no-name NT's.

DJ's left nut · 02-11-2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Uh huh, nice way to bolster your claim, Counselor.

But you're right: Belcher was awesome in 2010 and the Chiefs shouldn't even consider upgrading the position.

My bad.

Do you believe Derrick Johnson fits that classification?

I know he had a great first 4-6 games of the season, then was prone to long stretches of being invisible or flat out ineffective from that point forward.

Either you believe Johnson was an elite ILB last season (who can't shed blockers, I must add) or you are applying an inconsistent standard to the respective players.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-11-2011, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Do you believe Derrick Johnson fits that classification?

I know he had a great first 4-6 games of the season, then was prone to long stretches of being invisible or flat out ineffective from that point forward.

Either you believe Johnson was an elite ILB last season (who can't shed blockers, I must add) or you are applying an inconsistent standard to the respective players.

Johnson is playing the Mike position and it's his job to make tackles. As a matter of fact, he had 121 tackles this past season, so I'd say he's doing his job.

And yes, I thought he was among the league's better ILBer's. I don't know how that can be disputed but I'm sure you'll try.

chiefzilla1501 · 02-11-2011, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Yeah considering the top 3-4 defenses are built around no-name NT's.

The fact is that most 3-4 defenses in the league not only have a solid NT. They have 2 good ones, and both of them are not very highly paid. Like Center and Running Back, despite being very important positions, those positions aren't drafted until the 2nd or 3rd round. And you can easily find gems in the later rounds as well. The skill set for the position isn't all that difficult.

I'm not saying you don't try hard to find a NT. I'm just saying it's wrong to say that it's this impossible position to fill and that we're screwed because we can't get a Raji or a Ngata.

The reason the Chiefs don't have a Nose Tackle today is because they haven't even remotely tried to get one. If the Chiefs bring in Solilai and draft a 2nd or 3rd or 4th rounder (assuming they do good advanced scouting), they could very, very easily be secure at the NT position.

DJ's left nut · 02-11-2011, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Johnson is playing the Mike position and it's his job to make tackles. As a matter of fact, he had 121 tackles this past season, so I'd say he's doing his job.

And yes, I thought he was among the league's better ILBer's. I don't know how that can be disputed but I'm sure you'll try.

Your position is essentially that our interior defense was bad last season and since we can't upgrade at NT, we need to upgrade somewhere.

So if a better sideline to sideline backer shook free, shouldn't the Chiefs be compelled to 'exercise their due dilligence' and upgrade?

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-11-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Your position is essentially that our interior defense was bad last season and since we can't upgrade at NT, we need to upgrade somewhere.

So if a better sideline to sideline backer shook free, shouldn't the Chiefs be compelled to 'exercise their due dilligence' and upgrade?

JFC, you love to argue.

The TED backer and NT NEED to upgraded. Nowhere did I state ANYTHING about Derrick Johnson or his play and I think it's ludicrous to suggest that he's going ANYWHERE after the extension he just signed.

But if you think that DJ needs to replaced, by all means, let us know why.

02-10-2011, 05:18 PM
royr17 MVP Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Lovin my kids Casino cash: $-1641324	Jovan Belcher, a gem found in the rough ? http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/nfl/kc/?r=1 ESPN.com's Bill Williamson and Scouts Inc.'s Matt Williamson believe the Chiefs have found a "gem" in ILB Jovan Belcher. Belcher was primarily a special teamer as an undrafted rookie in 2009. He graduated to full-time starter in 2010, racking up 84 tackles. "He's a heavier guy who is a good banger in the 3-4 defense," Matt Williamson said. "He seems like a hard-nosed guy who has made the best of opportunity." Expect Belcher to remain in the same role next season.
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