Chiefs Haley versus McDaniels

WhiteWhale · 12-01-2011, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

How many times do you see a team do a quick turnaround when a new coach is brought in?

Look at the 49ers this year. I still see the same shitty QB that they have had for years starting there.

See, good coaches are able to identify talent. Then, they are able to use that talent to the best of the players ability.

Do you think that JC rides the bench for the first half of McDaniels first season in KC?

Yes. That's a hypothetical that cannot be proven, but LJ was entrenched in the starting RB spot. Over at another chiefs site I started driving the 'start Charles' bandwagon in 2008 and it was lonely. A lot of Chief fans in the 2009 preseason said he was outplayed by Battle and Savage and should have been cut (we kept 4 RB's).

The issue I'm debating isn't if coaches can have an impact. The issue I'm debating is whether coaching ALONE improves our current roster as of today into a good team. I do not believe it does. You, apparently, do. We're just probably not going to agree here.

SenselessChiefsFan · 12-01-2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

Yes. That's a hypothetical that cannot be proven, but LJ was entrenched in the starting RB spot. Over at another chiefs site I started driving the 'start Charles' bandwagon in 2008 and it was lonely. A lot of Chief fans in the 2009 preseason said he was outplayed by Battle and Savage and should have been cut (we kept 4 RB's).

The issue I'm debating isn't if coaches can have an impact. The issue I'm debating is whether coaching ALONE improves our current roster as of today into a good team. I do not believe it does. You, apparently, do. We're just probably not going to agree here.

I think coaching can have a bigger impact than any one player.

I understand that talent matters in the NFL. But, frankly, if one of the most talented backs in the league is sitting on the bench for half the season, I will not use it to excuse the HC/OC's lack of offense.

It is up to the coach to use the talent that is here to the best of their ability.

WhiteWhale · 12-01-2011, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

I think coaching can have a bigger impact than any one player.

I understand that talent matters in the NFL. But, frankly, if one of the most talented backs in the league is sitting on the bench for half the season, I will not use it to excuse the HC/OC's lack of offense.

It is up to the coach to use the talent that is here to the best of their ability.

It's not an excuse for anything. It's an observation of cause and effect. I'm not defending anyone, I'm making a case for talent>scheme.

As for coaching having an impact more than any one player... no.

Give the Colts 100 coaches with what they have now, and they'll fail. Give them Manning with any of those 100 coaches and they'll succeed.

Put Brady and Belichick each on a bad team next year, and I'm pretty confident that Brady's team would be much much better than Bill's. Coaching matters, but not as much as talent.

SenselessChiefsFan · 12-01-2011, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

It's not an excuse for anything. It's an observation of cause and effect. I'm not defending anyone, I'm making a case for talent>scheme.

As for coaching having an impact more than any one player... no.

Give the Colts 100 coaches with what they have now, and they'll fail. Give them Manning with any of those 100 coaches and they'll succeed.

Put Brady and Belichick each on a bad team next year, and I'm pretty confident that Brady's team would be much much better than Bill's. Coaching matters, but not as much as talent.

And, you talke Brady and put him on a different team as a rookie and he could be selling insurance right now because a coach didn't see the talent that was there.

Manning probably gets at least a fair shot no matter where he goes due to where he was picked. But, lets say he goes to Cleveland. Do you really think he is the same Peyton Manning?

Yeah, NOW, after years of teaching and coaching, these guys could go anywhere and be successful.... but that is dependent on the coaching and teaching of these guys early in their careers.

How many times do you see a bust on one team go on to be successful on another?

There are so many moving pieces in all of these discusions. Heck, you give Haley the right pieces, an I know he can be successful. I saw it when he had Warner, Fitzgerald and Boldin. However, great coaches can get the most out of what they have.

SenselessChiefsFan · 12-01-2011, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

It's not an excuse for anything. It's an observation of cause and effect. I'm not defending anyone, I'm making a case for talent>scheme.

As for coaching having an impact more than any one player... no.

Give the Colts 100 coaches with what they have now, and they'll fail. Give them Manning with any of those 100 coaches and they'll succeed.

Put Brady and Belichick each on a bad team next year, and I'm pretty confident that Brady's team would be much much better than Bill's. Coaching matters, but not as much as talent.

I have to run, but I wanted to say that I think you are quality poster. I enjoyed the debate. I don't agree, but I appreciate that for the most part, you were respectful and more concerned with proving your point than anything else.

Thanks for the help wasting four hours of my day.