Chiefs Haley versus McDaniels - Page 7

SenselessChiefsFan · 11-30-2011, 08:42 AM

For those that think I love Cassel, I don't. I just think that Haley isn't nearly the offensive coordinator that McDaniels is. I think the biggest reason that many on here think that Orton is better is because he had two years with McDaniels while the Chiefs had Haley, then Weis, and now Haley again.

Orton and Cassel have both struggled this year.

Haley had a great offense in Arizona with Kurt Warner. McDaniels had a great offense with Tom Brady, but he also has had good offenses with Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel....ahem.... Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel.

In 2007, Haley's first as a offensive coordinator, there is no comparison. McDaniels had a record setting offense at the top of the league. Haley had the 12th best offense. Winner: McDaniels. Haley might get some credit here since he was in his first year with the Cardinals. But, The Pats set the world on fire and set records and were just so much better, that you have to give the nod to McDaniels.

In 2008, Haley had the fourth rated offense. He had Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Breaston. Granted, the running backs weren't great. Edgerin James wasn't quite what he once was and they had Tim Hightower.

In 2008, McDaniels had the fifth rated offense. He had Matt Cassel, Randy Moss and Wes Welker. And, believe it or not, the running backs in NE were even MORE underwhelming. Lamont Jordon, Maroney, Sammy Morris.

2008 edge: Despite Arizona ranking one spot higher, it would be foolish not to notice the distinct advantage in talent around Haley. so the edge goes to McDaniels.

2009- Daniels had the 15th best offense. He had Orton, Marshall and Royal. He didn't have much of a running threat.

In 2009, Haley had the 25th best offense. He had Matt Cassel, D-Bowe, and Charles. Yeah, he didn't give Charles a ton of time until the end of the season. Who's fault is that? Who is the coach that saw JC on the field every day and still decided to play LJ?

In 2010, Haley had Weis as offensive coordinator. The Chiefs were 12th in offense. The Broncos were 13th. The Chiefs had better offensive talent. Jones was still playing well last year, JC was out of this world. They had D-Bowe and Moeaki as well. Luckily, Haley had Weis to know how to use the talent. With Weis, they managed to be one spot higher than the Broncos.

McDaniels had Orton, B LLoyd, Eddie Royal. Yet, he managed to get to the 13th ranking.

2011. Finally, a year that Haley can probably claim as better than McDaniels. The Chiefs are 27th in offense. The Rams are 29th.

Now, lets look at talent. Matt Cassel versus Sam Bradford. Bradford is the obvious answer. However, a second year guy going into a new system, and an offseason with no training camp. Again, Bradford is the better guy, but overall situation? Haley might have the better overall situation. Cassel and even Palko had been with the Chiefs for a full year.

Both McDaniels and Haley have had to have two games played with their backup QB.

Jackson is clearly superior to anything that the Chiefs have in the backfield since JC went down.

However, look at the talent on the outside and you will see the Chiefs have Bowe, Breaston and Baldwin..... heck, even McCluster would probably be one of the Rams top two WR's. Not kidding. They have Brandon Lloyd and Brandon Gibson. That is their top two WR's.

So, even conceding that they have the best QB and RB in St. Louis, you look at the fact that McDaniels came to a brand new team without an offseason and is only 2 spots worse than the team that Haley has been building for three years.

McDaniels was a crappy personnel guy. I concede that fact every day of the week. But, when it comes down to x's and o's. He outshines Haley by a huge margin.

I think Haley may be the better overall head coach, but from a purely offensive creativity and coordination standpoint. Haley is far inferior to McDaniels.

And any comparison between Orton and Cassel has to be based in this reality.

And, please understand, I am not a huge Cassel fan. I want him gone. But, this idea that Orton is an upgrade is fools gold. They are both mediocre QB's that have looked good under McDaniels. And, in Cassel's case, at least decent under Weis.

SenselessChiefsFan · 12-01-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Never fear, for I am 100% simpatico with you on this deal.

For many a year (or even longer sometimes), I, myself, have stood tall and fully erect for goodness and niceness and right and virtue and kindnessness and proportionate tittahs and Triscuits with pepper cheese, Mr. WhiteWhale.

Not only that, but I am also pretty much against evil in all its forms. Especially reposts.

FAX

Keep fighting the good fight, sir.

FringeNC · 12-01-2011, 02:10 PM

If Cassel stays (which I certainly hope is NOT true), then we have to make a coaching change. Haley and Cassel don't play well together. Might as well go after McDaniels if Pioli doubles down on Cassel.

SenselessChiefsFan · 12-01-2011, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

If Cassel stays (which I certainly hope is NOT true), then we have to make a coaching change. Haley and Cassel don't play well together. Might as well go after McDaniels if Pioli doubles down on Cassel.

Well, if Pioli is thinking about McDaniels, he now has two QB's that know his system.

I really hope Stanzi turns out to be great. Because if McDaniels comes in, you know the Chiefs are going with Cassel and Orton and will ignore QB in the first round unless Luck somehow falls to them after being charged with molesting a little boy.

crossbow · 12-01-2011, 04:27 PM

I can't believe you guys don't see the brilliance in rushing McCluster between the tackles on 3rd and short while Battle (a 240 lb. bruiser) sits on the bench for that play. The hidden genius in this move is that the other team would know that nobody would actually do something that ridiculous so when it happens they are completely surprised by it. Of course, they react quickly enough to stuff the play but that is not the point. So I contend that coaching decisions during a game have a significant impact on how good an athlete looks. We need a competent offensive coordinator and Haley needs to learn how to get along with the guy. If he can't then he needs to go.

htismaqe · 12-01-2011, 04:32 PM

Anybody hear Haley's presser today?

Hammock Parties · 12-01-2011, 04:46 PM

McCluster is so fast Jackie Battle has a longer play from scrimmage.

Dude sucks, stop defending the pick.

Hammock Parties · 12-01-2011, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Anybody hear Haley's presser today?

No, what did he say?

Nightfyre · 12-01-2011, 04:47 PM

Please summarize Haley's presser.

SenselessChiefsFan · 12-01-2011, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Anybody hear Haley's presser today?

No. Why?

htismaqe · 12-01-2011, 04:54 PM

In the same sentence, he basically said that the only thing they go by when determining starters is wins but that there are circumstances other than wins that go into deciding who the starting QB should be.

BoneKrusher · 12-01-2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

In the same sentence, he basically said that the only thing they go by when determining starters is wins but that there are circumstances other than wins that go into deciding who the starting QB should be.

the dude is a joke, we sure have a Nut for a Coach.

how in the hell did he land a HC gig?

Hammock Parties · 12-01-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoneKrusher

the dude is a joke, we sure have a Nut for a Coach.

how in the hell did he land a HC gig?

whoman69 · 12-01-2011, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FringeNC

If Cassel stays (which I certainly hope is NOT true), then we have to make a coaching change. Haley and Cassel don't play well together. Might as well go after McDaniels if Pioli doubles down on Cassel.

If Cassel stays it doesn't matter who the coach is.

BoneKrusher · 12-01-2011, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

oh yeah, my bad.
i forgot he fell out of the Patriot tree.

Rams Fan · 12-01-2011, 06:25 PM

If any of you guys say Bradford would come to KC with McDaniels, you're ****ing nuts.

11-30-2011, 08:42 AM
SenselessChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10005450	Haley versus McDaniels For those that think I love Cassel, I don't. I just think that Haley isn't nearly the offensive coordinator that McDaniels is. I think the biggest reason that many on here think that Orton is better is because he had two years with McDaniels while the Chiefs had Haley, then Weis, and now Haley again. Orton and Cassel have both struggled this year. Haley had a great offense in Arizona with Kurt Warner. McDaniels had a great offense with Tom Brady, but he also has had good offenses with Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel....ahem.... Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel. In 2007, Haley's first as a offensive coordinator, there is no comparison. McDaniels had a record setting offense at the top of the league. Haley had the 12th best offense. Winner: McDaniels. Haley might get some credit here since he was in his first year with the Cardinals. But, The Pats set the world on fire and set records and were just so much better, that you have to give the nod to McDaniels. In 2008, Haley had the fourth rated offense. He had Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Breaston. Granted, the running backs weren't great. Edgerin James wasn't quite what he once was and they had Tim Hightower. In 2008, McDaniels had the fifth rated offense. He had Matt Cassel, Randy Moss and Wes Welker. And, believe it or not, the running backs in NE were even MORE underwhelming. Lamont Jordon, Maroney, Sammy Morris. 2008 edge: Despite Arizona ranking one spot higher, it would be foolish not to notice the distinct advantage in talent around Haley. so the edge goes to McDaniels. 2009- Daniels had the 15th best offense. He had Orton, Marshall and Royal. He didn't have much of a running threat. In 2009, Haley had the 25th best offense. He had Matt Cassel, D-Bowe, and Charles. Yeah, he didn't give Charles a ton of time until the end of the season. Who's fault is that? Who is the coach that saw JC on the field every day and still decided to play LJ? In 2010, Haley had Weis as offensive coordinator. The Chiefs were 12th in offense. The Broncos were 13th. The Chiefs had better offensive talent. Jones was still playing well last year, JC was out of this world. They had D-Bowe and Moeaki as well. Luckily, Haley had Weis to know how to use the talent. With Weis, they managed to be one spot higher than the Broncos. McDaniels had Orton, B LLoyd, Eddie Royal. Yet, he managed to get to the 13th ranking. 2011. Finally, a year that Haley can probably claim as better than McDaniels. The Chiefs are 27th in offense. The Rams are 29th. Now, lets look at talent. Matt Cassel versus Sam Bradford. Bradford is the obvious answer. However, a second year guy going into a new system, and an offseason with no training camp. Again, Bradford is the better guy, but overall situation? Haley might have the better overall situation. Cassel and even Palko had been with the Chiefs for a full year. Both McDaniels and Haley have had to have two games played with their backup QB. Jackson is clearly superior to anything that the Chiefs have in the backfield since JC went down. However, look at the talent on the outside and you will see the Chiefs have Bowe, Breaston and Baldwin..... heck, even McCluster would probably be one of the Rams top two WR's. Not kidding. They have Brandon Lloyd and Brandon Gibson. That is their top two WR's. So, even conceding that they have the best QB and RB in St. Louis, you look at the fact that McDaniels came to a brand new team without an offseason and is only 2 spots worse than the team that Haley has been building for three years. McDaniels was a crappy personnel guy. I concede that fact every day of the week. But, when it comes down to x's and o's. He outshines Haley by a huge margin. I think Haley may be the better overall head coach, but from a purely offensive creativity and coordination standpoint. Haley is far inferior to McDaniels. And any comparison between Orton and Cassel has to be based in this reality. And, please understand, I am not a huge Cassel fan. I want him gone. But, this idea that Orton is an upgrade is fools gold. They are both mediocre QB's that have looked good under McDaniels. And, in Cassel's case, at least decent under Weis.
Posts: 5,540

12-01-2011, 02:10 PM	#92
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $-1763986	If Cassel stays (which I certainly hope is NOT true), then we have to make a coaching change. Haley and Cassel don't play well together. Might as well go after McDaniels if Pioli doubles down on Cassel.
Posts: 10,234

12-01-2011, 04:27 PM	#94
crossbow King of Sarcasm Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: at home Casino cash: $10004900	I can't believe you guys don't see the brilliance in rushing McCluster between the tackles on 3rd and short while Battle (a 240 lb. bruiser) sits on the bench for that play. The hidden genius in this move is that the other team would know that nobody would actually do something that ridiculous so when it happens they are completely surprised by it. Of course, they react quickly enough to stuff the play but that is not the point. So I contend that coaching decisions during a game have a significant impact on how good an athlete looks. We need a competent offensive coordinator and Haley needs to learn how to get along with the guy. If he can't then he needs to go.
Posts: 2,159

12-01-2011, 04:32 PM	#95
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $8119900	Anybody hear Haley's presser today?
Posts: 104,409

12-01-2011, 04:46 PM	#96
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $820478	McCluster is so fast Jackie Battle has a longer play from scrimmage. Dude sucks, stop defending the pick. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,413

12-01-2011, 04:47 PM	#98
Nightfyre MVP Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Helena, MT Casino cash: $1298849	Please summarize Haley's presser.
Posts: 18,647

12-01-2011, 04:54 PM	#100
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $8119900	In the same sentence, he basically said that the only thing they go by when determining starters is wins but that there are circumstances other than wins that go into deciding who the starting QB should be.
Posts: 104,409

12-01-2011, 06:25 PM	#105
Rams Fan Greatest QB Duo of 2015 Join Date: Mar 2010 Casino cash: $1011023	If any of you guys say Bradford would come to KC with McDaniels, you're ****ing nuts.
Posts: 17,512