Chiefs Admitting Mistakes..key for the Chiefs franchise - Page 2

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 06:29 PM

Everyone makes mistakes. The best players, the best coaches, the best GM's, the best owners. They all make mistakes. But, what makes the best the best is they admit their mistakes, learn from their mistakes and make the necessary corrections.

This is a telling time for Clark and Pioli. Will they repeat the same mistakes they have made or will they understand they made some mistakes and learn from them? Typical of new owners and new GM's, they think they know more than anyone else about what they are doing. The recipie for success is rather simple in this league. Owner needs to hire GM and let him do his job and not meddle. GM needs to hire coach and let him do his job and not meddle.

What mistakes have Clark and Pioli made? Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to see but that is how we judge our mistakes by looking back and learning.

1. Hiring Haley. Mistake? Most likley. No personal football experience, hot tempered, couldn't get along with people and ran off 2 OC's in 3 years and Muir would probably have only stuck around for the pension had Haley stayed.

2. Matt Cassel. Mistake? Yes but to be fair an honest one. More than the Chiefs were after Cassel and a lot, not all but a lot of the fan base was ok with bringing him in. Ok, fair enough. We have watched him for 3 years and learned he isn't the one.

3. Draft picks. Mistakes? Yes but all teams make them. Jackson was a mistake simply because we put him at a position he has never played and not really built to play. Dexter? Mistake. Never should have been drafted given the needs of the team. By the same token Pioli has made some good draft picks in Berry, Baldwin, Arenas and Moeaki.

4. Lack of team identity. Mistake? Yes but part of that is on the coaching staff as well as the front office. Pioli dictated we would be a 3-4 team when he came in before any coach was ever hired. That's a mistake. Let the coaches evaluate the talent, choose the best strategy for the talent that is there and the front office should cater to that. To elaborate further though I don't think a clear identity has ever been targeted for this team. One minute we want to be a power running team, the next a dink-dunk. One game we are blitzing like crazy, the next we are a pillow-soft zone.

5. Lack of roster depth. Mistake? Clearly. This falls on Pioli and Haley both. You have 3 QB's with a total experience level starting in the NFL of 2 1/2 years combined. No excuse there at all for any of them. None! No line depth on either side of the ball and no depth at LB. The secondary when healthy is fairly deep.

6. Brian Waters. Mistake? In hindsight, yes. I was not terribly upset that he left but when you let him go and he goes and starts for the NE Pats then you made a mistake.

Overall there has been a piss-poor display of leadership on this team from the front office to the coaching staff the defensse being the only exception. A head coach who can't get along with other coaches is a bad seed. Gailey gets ran off. Ok, fair enough. But you do it one week before a season starts? Terrible leadership. Weis gets ran off. Fair enough but now you have gone through 2 OC's in as many years. Not a good track record. Muir has the playcalling taken away from him. Terrible. Muir was a terrible decision in the first place but you gave the guy the job you have to stand by your decisions. When the head coach starts meddling at that level with the coordinators it sends the wrong message to the players.

Pioli has his work cut out for him and should be on the hot seat. He needs to bring in a coach who knows WTF he is doing and listen to that coach. If that coach doesn't want Cassel then Cassel is gone. If that coach wants to draft a NT and not a flashy "playmaker" then the NT gets drafted. No coach worth a **** is going to want to coach this team if he can't have his say on the players. I am not saying that Pioli has to be totally absent in that decision making but he needs to give deferrence to the coach.

New owner, 1st time GM and 1st time head coach is obviously not a good combination. Bring in a good coach. Make a commitment to draft players that are going to solidify this team for the next decade, meaning QB and line players on both sides of the ball. If that means we go back to a 4-3 then sobeit. Unless you are going to cut Dorsey and Jackson going to a 4-3 is probably the best decision. You have 3 stud WR's. Get a QB that can get them the ball and get lineman that can block for him. Again, no coach worth anything is going to want to coach a team where he is continually forced to draft players that don't fit the identity. The "right 53" has to begin with players who can actually play the position they are drafted to play.

Above and beyond all, at this point you have to get a coach with some credibilty. No college come-ups. No former golfers. No retreads with failing records though they have already said they are going to serious look at Romeo. Get a coach that has football experience and has been successful at some point in his career. Romeo would fall into that category as a DC but his time in Cleveland hurts him. Then again I don't think Cleveland has had a good team since Marty left. Get off the Pats\Parcell buddy system.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

You are an idiot.

This defense is built apart from NT and depth.

Jackson and Dorsey are not 3-4 DE's. Dorsey is making strides but again, is not the ideal DE for a 3-4. Jackson has what, 1 or 2 sacks in 3 years? He is constantly blown off the ball and cannot beat 1-1 blocks. neither can Dorsey for that matter. Put those same 2 guys in a 4-3 and suddenly you have 2 badass DT's. The last time the Chiefs had a good 3-4 defense you had Neil Smith, Dan Saly and Joe Phillips. We have nothing of the sort. Plus if you're going to run a coverage defense you are better off in a 4-3. A 3-4 that doesn't constantly attack is not an effective 3-4, imo. We are 2-3 solid Dlineman and a good inside LB away from being an effective 3-4. That's assuming Dorsey continues to get better.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-12-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini

Yes. Tamba Hali is one of the best pass rushers in the game, DJ is one of the best ILB, and Justin Houston is emerging as well. It shouldn't be that hard to find a good Nose Tackle unless Scott Pioli is the GM.

And all those players would play in a 43 as well, no?

Point being, we're just as far away from a good defense in the 43 as we are in the 34 - about 2-3 players.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

How is Matt Cassel an honest mistake? Our GM watched him practice every day for four years. You can't miss on evaluations like that.

We weren't the only team who wanted him and he came off an 11-5 record. The hope was he would be up and coming. Well, that was false hope.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Just for the sake of argument, do we really have the personnel to play the 34?

Jackson and Dorsey are average 5-techs at best, and we have no true NT.

Jackson and Dorsey are not average 5 techs. They are poor pass rushers, but they are very good against the run. Amon Gordon is good depth.

If Powe works out we are set at starters.

****ing up what we have put together on D the last two years is not something I am interested in doing.

**DeezNutz** · 12-12-2011, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Jackson and Dorsey are not 3-4 DE's. Dorsey is making strides but again, is not the ideal DE for a 3-4. Jackson has what, 1 or 2 sacks in 3 years? He is constantly blown off the ball and cannot beat 1-1 blocks. neither can Dorsey for that matter. Put those same 2 guys in a 4-3 and suddenly you have 2 badass DT's. The last time the Chiefs had a good 3-4 defense you had Neil Smith, Dan Saly and Joe Phillips. We have nothing of the sort. Plus if you're going to run a coverage defense you are better off in a 4-3. A 3-4 that doesn't constantly attack is not an effective 3-4, imo. We are 2-3 solid Dlineman and a good inside LB away from being an effective 3-4. That's assuming Dorsey continues to get better.

Jackson has graded out well against the run unless I'm mistaken. Don't get blinded by the fact that he was a disastrous selection at #3 overall and not be able to recognize that he can contribute on some level.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 12-12-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

Jackson and Dorsey are not average 5 techs. They are poor pass rushers, but they are very good against the run. Amon Gordon is good depth.

If Powe works out we are set at starters.

****ing up what we have put together on D the last two years is not something I am interested in doing.

Yep.

So good we rank 26th in the league against the run.

KurtCobain · 12-12-2011, 06:43 PM

ChiefsCountry · 12-12-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

We weren't the only team who wanted him and he came off an 11-5 record. The hope was he would be up and coming. Well, that was false hope.

Denver with McDumbass
Tampa Bay

Those are the two who wanted him.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

And all those players would play in a 43 as well, no?

Point being, we're just as far away from a good defense in the 43 as we are in the 34 - about 2-3 players.

I don't think Dorsey or Jackson would fit in a 4-3 at all, and I think we'd have two find two new outside linebackers who can cover.

This defense is good enough to win a SB if Berry is OK, we get a NT and Houston keeps trending up.

**DeezNutz** · 12-12-2011, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

We weren't the only team who wanted him and he came off an 11-5 record. The hope was he would be up and coming. Well, that was false hope.

Denver wanted him. More specifically, another douche with The Tree hanging out of his ass was equally as myopic as Pioli.

Mind bottling.

BoneKrusher · 12-12-2011, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

How is Matt Cassel an honest mistake? Our GM watched him practice every day for four years. You can't miss on evaluations like that.

maybe Pioli sent Ray Charles to evaluate Cassel.

Titty Meat · 12-12-2011, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

And all those players would play in a 43 as well, no?

Point being, we're just as far away from a good defense in the 43 as we are in the 34 - about 2-3 players.

Hali and DJ have been far more productive in the 3-4 it would make no sense going back to the 4-3 at this point if those are the guys we're building around on defense.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Yep.

So good we rank 26th in the league against the run.

Here we go with the stats.

That's a very deceptive ranking. PFF ranks the Chiefs as a top 10 run defense. Football Outsiders has us at 17th.

We've given up 4.1 YPC this year (15th) and the defense as a whole is allowing something like 19 PPG after the first two weeks.

Nothing wrong with this D Eric Berry won't fix.

Changing the scheme would be a huge setback.

Titty Meat · 12-12-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Denver with McDumbass
Tampa Bay

Those are the two who wanted him.

Was this when Gruden was still the coach? IIRC he didn't get canned til very late in the process.

**DeezNutz** · 12-12-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Yep.

So good we rank 26th in the league against the run.

Still weak up the middle.

12-12-2011, 06:29 PM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-1065873	Admitting Mistakes..key for the Chiefs franchise Everyone makes mistakes. The best players, the best coaches, the best GM's, the best owners. They all make mistakes. But, what makes the best the best is they admit their mistakes, learn from their mistakes and make the necessary corrections. This is a telling time for Clark and Pioli. Will they repeat the same mistakes they have made or will they understand they made some mistakes and learn from them? Typical of new owners and new GM's, they think they know more than anyone else about what they are doing. The recipie for success is rather simple in this league. Owner needs to hire GM and let him do his job and not meddle. GM needs to hire coach and let him do his job and not meddle. What mistakes have Clark and Pioli made? Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to see but that is how we judge our mistakes by looking back and learning. 1. Hiring Haley. Mistake? Most likley. No personal football experience, hot tempered, couldn't get along with people and ran off 2 OC's in 3 years and Muir would probably have only stuck around for the pension had Haley stayed. 2. Matt Cassel. Mistake? Yes but to be fair an honest one. More than the Chiefs were after Cassel and a lot, not all but a lot of the fan base was ok with bringing him in. Ok, fair enough. We have watched him for 3 years and learned he isn't the one. 3. Draft picks. Mistakes? Yes but all teams make them. Jackson was a mistake simply because we put him at a position he has never played and not really built to play. Dexter? Mistake. Never should have been drafted given the needs of the team. By the same token Pioli has made some good draft picks in Berry, Baldwin, Arenas and Moeaki. 4. Lack of team identity. Mistake? Yes but part of that is on the coaching staff as well as the front office. Pioli dictated we would be a 3-4 team when he came in before any coach was ever hired. That's a mistake. Let the coaches evaluate the talent, choose the best strategy for the talent that is there and the front office should cater to that. To elaborate further though I don't think a clear identity has ever been targeted for this team. One minute we want to be a power running team, the next a dink-dunk. One game we are blitzing like crazy, the next we are a pillow-soft zone. 5. Lack of roster depth. Mistake? Clearly. This falls on Pioli and Haley both. You have 3 QB's with a total experience level starting in the NFL of 2 1/2 years combined. No excuse there at all for any of them. None! No line depth on either side of the ball and no depth at LB. The secondary when healthy is fairly deep. 6. Brian Waters. Mistake? In hindsight, yes. I was not terribly upset that he left but when you let him go and he goes and starts for the NE Pats then you made a mistake. Overall there has been a piss-poor display of leadership on this team from the front office to the coaching staff the defensse being the only exception. A head coach who can't get along with other coaches is a bad seed. Gailey gets ran off. Ok, fair enough. But you do it one week before a season starts? Terrible leadership. Weis gets ran off. Fair enough but now you have gone through 2 OC's in as many years. Not a good track record. Muir has the playcalling taken away from him. Terrible. Muir was a terrible decision in the first place but you gave the guy the job you have to stand by your decisions. When the head coach starts meddling at that level with the coordinators it sends the wrong message to the players. Pioli has his work cut out for him and should be on the hot seat. He needs to bring in a coach who knows WTF he is doing and listen to that coach. If that coach doesn't want Cassel then Cassel is gone. If that coach wants to draft a NT and not a flashy "playmaker" then the NT gets drafted. No coach worth a **** is going to want to coach this team if he can't have his say on the players. I am not saying that Pioli has to be totally absent in that decision making but he needs to give deferrence to the coach. New owner, 1st time GM and 1st time head coach is obviously not a good combination. Bring in a good coach. Make a commitment to draft players that are going to solidify this team for the next decade, meaning QB and line players on both sides of the ball. If that means we go back to a 4-3 then sobeit. Unless you are going to cut Dorsey and Jackson going to a 4-3 is probably the best decision. You have 3 stud WR's. Get a QB that can get them the ball and get lineman that can block for him. Again, no coach worth anything is going to want to coach a team where he is continually forced to draft players that don't fit the identity. The "right 53" has to begin with players who can actually play the position they are drafted to play. Above and beyond all, at this point you have to get a coach with some credibilty. No college come-ups. No former golfers. No retreads with failing records though they have already said they are going to serious look at Romeo. Get a coach that has football experience and has been successful at some point in his career. Romeo would fall into that category as a DC but his time in Cleveland hurts him. Then again I don't think Cleveland has had a good team since Marty left. Get off the Pats\Parcell buddy system.
Posts: 132,455

12-12-2011, 06:43 PM	#22
KurtCobain legend Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Independence, MO Casino cash: $-3337903
Posts: 28,545