Chiefs Admitting Mistakes..key for the Chiefs franchise - Page 4

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 06:29 PM

Everyone makes mistakes. The best players, the best coaches, the best GM's, the best owners. They all make mistakes. But, what makes the best the best is they admit their mistakes, learn from their mistakes and make the necessary corrections.

This is a telling time for Clark and Pioli. Will they repeat the same mistakes they have made or will they understand they made some mistakes and learn from them? Typical of new owners and new GM's, they think they know more than anyone else about what they are doing. The recipie for success is rather simple in this league. Owner needs to hire GM and let him do his job and not meddle. GM needs to hire coach and let him do his job and not meddle.

What mistakes have Clark and Pioli made? Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to see but that is how we judge our mistakes by looking back and learning.

1. Hiring Haley. Mistake? Most likley. No personal football experience, hot tempered, couldn't get along with people and ran off 2 OC's in 3 years and Muir would probably have only stuck around for the pension had Haley stayed.

2. Matt Cassel. Mistake? Yes but to be fair an honest one. More than the Chiefs were after Cassel and a lot, not all but a lot of the fan base was ok with bringing him in. Ok, fair enough. We have watched him for 3 years and learned he isn't the one.

3. Draft picks. Mistakes? Yes but all teams make them. Jackson was a mistake simply because we put him at a position he has never played and not really built to play. Dexter? Mistake. Never should have been drafted given the needs of the team. By the same token Pioli has made some good draft picks in Berry, Baldwin, Arenas and Moeaki.

4. Lack of team identity. Mistake? Yes but part of that is on the coaching staff as well as the front office. Pioli dictated we would be a 3-4 team when he came in before any coach was ever hired. That's a mistake. Let the coaches evaluate the talent, choose the best strategy for the talent that is there and the front office should cater to that. To elaborate further though I don't think a clear identity has ever been targeted for this team. One minute we want to be a power running team, the next a dink-dunk. One game we are blitzing like crazy, the next we are a pillow-soft zone.

5. Lack of roster depth. Mistake? Clearly. This falls on Pioli and Haley both. You have 3 QB's with a total experience level starting in the NFL of 2 1/2 years combined. No excuse there at all for any of them. None! No line depth on either side of the ball and no depth at LB. The secondary when healthy is fairly deep.

6. Brian Waters. Mistake? In hindsight, yes. I was not terribly upset that he left but when you let him go and he goes and starts for the NE Pats then you made a mistake.

Overall there has been a piss-poor display of leadership on this team from the front office to the coaching staff the defensse being the only exception. A head coach who can't get along with other coaches is a bad seed. Gailey gets ran off. Ok, fair enough. But you do it one week before a season starts? Terrible leadership. Weis gets ran off. Fair enough but now you have gone through 2 OC's in as many years. Not a good track record. Muir has the playcalling taken away from him. Terrible. Muir was a terrible decision in the first place but you gave the guy the job you have to stand by your decisions. When the head coach starts meddling at that level with the coordinators it sends the wrong message to the players.

Pioli has his work cut out for him and should be on the hot seat. He needs to bring in a coach who knows WTF he is doing and listen to that coach. If that coach doesn't want Cassel then Cassel is gone. If that coach wants to draft a NT and not a flashy "playmaker" then the NT gets drafted. No coach worth a **** is going to want to coach this team if he can't have his say on the players. I am not saying that Pioli has to be totally absent in that decision making but he needs to give deferrence to the coach.

New owner, 1st time GM and 1st time head coach is obviously not a good combination. Bring in a good coach. Make a commitment to draft players that are going to solidify this team for the next decade, meaning QB and line players on both sides of the ball. If that means we go back to a 4-3 then sobeit. Unless you are going to cut Dorsey and Jackson going to a 4-3 is probably the best decision. You have 3 stud WR's. Get a QB that can get them the ball and get lineman that can block for him. Again, no coach worth anything is going to want to coach a team where he is continually forced to draft players that don't fit the identity. The "right 53" has to begin with players who can actually play the position they are drafted to play.

Above and beyond all, at this point you have to get a coach with some credibilty. No college come-ups. No former golfers. No retreads with failing records though they have already said they are going to serious look at Romeo. Get a coach that has football experience and has been successful at some point in his career. Romeo would fall into that category as a DC but his time in Cleveland hurts him. Then again I don't think Cleveland has had a good team since Marty left. Get off the Pats\Parcell buddy system.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

We have no pass rush up the middle because our NT can barely win a 1 on 1.

Same with our DE's. The DT's job is to suck up the blocks in the middle and stand there. Not necessarily give a huge push. The push has to come from the DE's. You want the DT standing firm taking away the gap and taking up 2 blockers. We do not have a 3-4 D-line whatsoever. The only guy we have that has played in and is built for a 3-4 on the line is a guy who is so old he can't play every down.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 07:00 PM

Contrary to popular belief, at least as I understand it, the middle pass rush in a 3-4 is primarily going to come from a LB. The 3 D-lienman are there to take on double-teams and if they are blocked 1-1 they need to be able to shove the blocker into the QB's face. Otherwise their job is to stand firm at the line, not get knocked off the ball and take on the blockers so the LB's can hit the gaps.

**mlyonsd** · 12-12-2011, 07:01 PM

About all I can say on this entire day is I hope Pioli hires an established coach that can come in and take advantage of a pretty young talented team.

This next coach hiring will determine Pioli's skill (if he has any).

jd1020 · 12-12-2011, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Same with our DE's. The DT's job is to suck up the blocks in the middle and stand there. Not necessarily give a huge push. The push has to come from the DE's. You want the DT standing firm taking away the gap and taking up 2 blockers. We do not have a 3-4 D-line whatsoever. The only guy we have that has played in and is built for a 3-4 on the line is a guy who is so old he can't play every down.

I don't know what to say if you believe that the DE's should be demanding 2 blockers and blaming the inside rush on the outside players.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

I don't know what to say if you believe that the DE's should be demanding 2 blockers and blaming the inside rush on the outside players.

You mean we don't have 2 ILB's? I am not sure you understand the 3-4.

jd1020 · 12-12-2011, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

You mean we don't have 2 ILB's? I am not sure you understand the 3-4.

I'm not sure you do. The NT is responsible for opening up the middle for the ILB's... not the ****ing DE's.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

I'm not sure you do. The NT is responsible for opening up the middle for the ILB's... not the ****ing DE's.

So what is the job of the DE's?

jd1020 · 12-12-2011, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

So what is the job of the DE's?

To beat his man.

Nightfyre · 12-12-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

To beat his man.

It's a tarp!

O.city · 12-12-2011, 07:20 PM

In a 34 your not gonna get sacks from your dline consistently. That's no the way it's built.

It's built to allow your 4 LBS to run free and make plays. We don't have a NT that can command a Double team, which allows one of our DE's to be dtd and blockers getting on our lbs.

**petegz28** · 12-12-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

To beat his man.

Well guess what......ours aren't doing it

jd1020 · 12-12-2011, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Well guess what......ours aren't doing it

Well, guess what? The problem is our interior not demanding a double team, allowing every pass rusher to be accounted for by a lineman.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Totally disagree. Dorsey and Jackson are ideal 4-3 DT's. Quick off the ball and gap hitters.

Sorry, neither of them are quick off the ball gap hitters.

For that very reason, the Chiefs don't play them in pass rush packages.

They are abysmal pass rushers.

O.city · 12-12-2011, 07:25 PM

Pete would you say the Ravens and the Steelers are the best 34 defenses in the league?

How many sacks come from their dlinemen?

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 07:25 PM

Tyson Jackson is 6-5, 300 lbs, and you want to play him at 4-3 DT.

You are an idiot, man.

12-12-2011, 06:29 PM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-1065873	Admitting Mistakes..key for the Chiefs franchise Everyone makes mistakes. The best players, the best coaches, the best GM's, the best owners. They all make mistakes. But, what makes the best the best is they admit their mistakes, learn from their mistakes and make the necessary corrections. This is a telling time for Clark and Pioli. Will they repeat the same mistakes they have made or will they understand they made some mistakes and learn from them? Typical of new owners and new GM's, they think they know more than anyone else about what they are doing. The recipie for success is rather simple in this league. Owner needs to hire GM and let him do his job and not meddle. GM needs to hire coach and let him do his job and not meddle. What mistakes have Clark and Pioli made? Hindsight being 20/20 it's easy to see but that is how we judge our mistakes by looking back and learning. 1. Hiring Haley. Mistake? Most likley. No personal football experience, hot tempered, couldn't get along with people and ran off 2 OC's in 3 years and Muir would probably have only stuck around for the pension had Haley stayed. 2. Matt Cassel. Mistake? Yes but to be fair an honest one. More than the Chiefs were after Cassel and a lot, not all but a lot of the fan base was ok with bringing him in. Ok, fair enough. We have watched him for 3 years and learned he isn't the one. 3. Draft picks. Mistakes? Yes but all teams make them. Jackson was a mistake simply because we put him at a position he has never played and not really built to play. Dexter? Mistake. Never should have been drafted given the needs of the team. By the same token Pioli has made some good draft picks in Berry, Baldwin, Arenas and Moeaki. 4. Lack of team identity. Mistake? Yes but part of that is on the coaching staff as well as the front office. Pioli dictated we would be a 3-4 team when he came in before any coach was ever hired. That's a mistake. Let the coaches evaluate the talent, choose the best strategy for the talent that is there and the front office should cater to that. To elaborate further though I don't think a clear identity has ever been targeted for this team. One minute we want to be a power running team, the next a dink-dunk. One game we are blitzing like crazy, the next we are a pillow-soft zone. 5. Lack of roster depth. Mistake? Clearly. This falls on Pioli and Haley both. You have 3 QB's with a total experience level starting in the NFL of 2 1/2 years combined. No excuse there at all for any of them. None! No line depth on either side of the ball and no depth at LB. The secondary when healthy is fairly deep. 6. Brian Waters. Mistake? In hindsight, yes. I was not terribly upset that he left but when you let him go and he goes and starts for the NE Pats then you made a mistake. Overall there has been a piss-poor display of leadership on this team from the front office to the coaching staff the defensse being the only exception. A head coach who can't get along with other coaches is a bad seed. Gailey gets ran off. Ok, fair enough. But you do it one week before a season starts? Terrible leadership. Weis gets ran off. Fair enough but now you have gone through 2 OC's in as many years. Not a good track record. Muir has the playcalling taken away from him. Terrible. Muir was a terrible decision in the first place but you gave the guy the job you have to stand by your decisions. When the head coach starts meddling at that level with the coordinators it sends the wrong message to the players. Pioli has his work cut out for him and should be on the hot seat. He needs to bring in a coach who knows WTF he is doing and listen to that coach. If that coach doesn't want Cassel then Cassel is gone. If that coach wants to draft a NT and not a flashy "playmaker" then the NT gets drafted. No coach worth a **** is going to want to coach this team if he can't have his say on the players. I am not saying that Pioli has to be totally absent in that decision making but he needs to give deferrence to the coach. New owner, 1st time GM and 1st time head coach is obviously not a good combination. Bring in a good coach. Make a commitment to draft players that are going to solidify this team for the next decade, meaning QB and line players on both sides of the ball. If that means we go back to a 4-3 then sobeit. Unless you are going to cut Dorsey and Jackson going to a 4-3 is probably the best decision. You have 3 stud WR's. Get a QB that can get them the ball and get lineman that can block for him. Again, no coach worth anything is going to want to coach a team where he is continually forced to draft players that don't fit the identity. The "right 53" has to begin with players who can actually play the position they are drafted to play. Above and beyond all, at this point you have to get a coach with some credibilty. No college come-ups. No former golfers. No retreads with failing records though they have already said they are going to serious look at Romeo. Get a coach that has football experience and has been successful at some point in his career. Romeo would fall into that category as a DC but his time in Cleveland hurts him. Then again I don't think Cleveland has had a good team since Marty left. Get off the Pats\Parcell buddy system.
Posts: 132,460

12-12-2011, 07:00 PM	#47
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-1065873	Contrary to popular belief, at least as I understand it, the middle pass rush in a 3-4 is primarily going to come from a LB. The 3 D-lienman are there to take on double-teams and if they are blocked 1-1 they need to be able to shove the blocker into the QB's face. Otherwise their job is to stand firm at the line, not get knocked off the ball and take on the blockers so the LB's can hit the gaps.
Posts: 132,460

12-12-2011, 07:01 PM	#48
mlyonsd Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Spink, SD Casino cash: $-2186238	About all I can say on this entire day is I hope Pioli hires an established coach that can come in and take advantage of a pretty young talented team. This next coach hiring will determine Pioli's skill (if he has any).
Posts: 39,477

12-12-2011, 07:20 PM	#55
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-695936	In a 34 your not gonna get sacks from your dline consistently. That's no the way it's built. It's built to allow your 4 LBS to run free and make plays. We don't have a NT that can command a Double team, which allows one of our DE's to be dtd and blockers getting on our lbs.
Posts: 84,220

12-12-2011, 07:25 PM	#59
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-695936	Pete would you say the Ravens and the Steelers are the best 34 defenses in the league? How many sacks come from their dlinemen?
Posts: 84,220

12-12-2011, 07:25 PM	#60
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $840478	Tyson Jackson is 6-5, 300 lbs, and you want to play him at 4-3 DT. You are an idiot, man. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,323