Chiefs Why I support Todd Haley - Page 4

chiefzilla1501 · 12-12-2011, 06:46 PM

I know this is going to get me shit. Fire away.

If it's true that Haley pushed back on Tyson Jackson, that tells you everything you need to know. Scott Pioli did NOT build a team around his head coach. He forced his coach to run the only system he knows. Know why Haley called Jackson a "system player"? Because Tyson Jackson is only a 3-4 DE in a 2-gap, Romeo 3-4. Does any NFL team run this defense anymore? Even the Patriots don't.

Case study. What defense is Thomas Dimitroff running in Atlanta? You guessed it. A 4-3. That's because good GMs adjust their philosophy to fit the coach.

Look at the new candidates for head coach. It's going to be from the tree. You know how I know that? 1) because Pioli has shown croneyism this entire time. 2) because he is so stuck on one offensive and defensive philosophy that he needs to hire a coach who follows his marching orders.

Not only should we question if the 2-gap 3-4 defense is obsolete. We have to question why Pioli would expect Haley to make a complete transition to a new defense requiring totally different personnel and turn that around in 3 years.

How about the obvious? Pioli is the guy who scouted Cassel for years and believed he was the long-term starter. In 3 years, the only QBs he brought in to compete for the starting job were Tyler Palko (probably Haley's choice, but that doesn't mean Pioli didn't have the power to bring a competitive veteran option in) and a 5th round pick he waited 3 years to bring in. Fail.

How about the second-most obvious? Pioli forced Haley to run a 3-4 and didn't in 3 years even try to bring in a Nose Tackle.

People may get on Haley's case for not getting along with Charlie Weis. It sounds like the relationship was doomed from the start and credit Whitlock for being the only guy to figure that out. Pioli has ultimate say, but if Haley flat-out didn't want to work with the guy, then don't bring him in. Pioli has to have at least some consideration for what Haley wants. And now, because of that, haley ends up looking like the asshole.

The Chiefs are finding a convenient time to fire Haley because people hate the Palko decision. First of all, his choice was Palko or a 5th round rookie. Second of all, it sounds like haley's job was pretty much gone well before Palko started a game. So no... not convinced at all that Haley starts Palko if he knows his job is safe. I wouldn't even be surprised if that was just a big **** you after a while.

In 3 years, Scott Pioli forces Haley to completely change his defense and doesn't spend a dime to help him out.
People say the Chiefs' effort was inconsistent. I call bullshit. This team had so many talent gaps that the only way they could win was with effort. Given the Chiefs' talent, especially at the most critical positions, it's amazing they won as many games the past 2 years as they did. You give Haley the Chargers' talent, and he takes them to the top. Not every team is going to play 100% every single game. The difference is that the best teams have enough talent that they can win even when the other team outplays them.

The Chiefs brought in Kyle Orton. I was okay with that move as a 1-2 year decision. But let's be serious about one thing... that's a pretty telltale sign that Pioli is bringing in McDaniels.

Haley's job was to coach up players. Many players under his watch who had any kind of upside really improved.

I don't like the snake-like tactics we're seeing from our front office. It sounds like they were leaking stories about Haley to discredit him. Between the Lil Wayne concert and the party before the Bears game (after a win, mind you).
We've seen firey Haley before. Even with big efforts in Chicago and Pittsburgh, it looked like he just didn't have any fire. I think he knew he was through and the front office was just waiting for a chance to fire him.

He's a young coach. He's going to make mistakes. The beginning of the season was a horrible mistake. But that's not one mistake that should get you fired.

Flame away. I want to know... if the GM let Haley run a defense he wanted to run, have some input on his coordinator, actually gave Haley good QBs to work with... how would we have fared? And how comfortable do people feel that the grand vision for this team as long as Pioli is here is this exact New England approach that even New England isn't using anymore?

ChiefsCountry · 12-12-2011, 07:14 PM

The only thing I support Haley on is the Patriot Way is total bullshit.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The Denver game... if you'll recall, Cassel completely whiffed on several key first down passes to start the game.

And the defense responded by laying down.

Inexcusable.

There's probably a fatal flaw in Haley's preparation methods/opponent scouting.

Brock · 12-12-2011, 07:16 PM

Most of what you say is true. But you know the fact is coaches are hired to be fired. Win or GTFO, no excuses.

chiefzilla1501 · 12-12-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Most of what you say is true. But you know the fact is coaches are hired to be fired. Win or GTFO, no excuses.

All I want is a GM who builds around his coaches. That's a simple statement.

Thomas Dimitroff abandoned the Patriot Way in Atlanta. Pioli has left no choice but to hire from the tree because he's so inflexible that he can't build a system he doesn't know.

chiefzilla1501 · 12-12-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

Most of what you say is true. But you know the fact is coaches are hired to be fired. Win or GTFO, no excuses.

Also, here's another scary thought.

Given that the Patriots seem to be drafting well again and their defense is back on track (after abandoning the 3-4)... you look at Pioli's last years in New England. You look at how New England has been drafting of late.

I think it's entirely possible that Pioli's scouting methods have always been top-rate, but his personnel/scheme decisions never evolved with the times.

**dirk digler** · 12-12-2011, 07:21 PM

chiefzilla do you just like to be a contrarian?

Haley sucks get over it

Pasta Little Brioni · 12-12-2011, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Also, here's another scary thought.

Given that the Patriots seem to be drafting well again and their defense is back on track (after abandoning the 3-4)... you look at Pioli's last years in New England. You look at how New England has been drafting of late.

I think it's entirely possible that Pioli's scouting methods have always been top-rate, but his personnel/scheme decisions never evolved with the times.

I don't call getting raped by Sexy Rexy and the Skins "back on track"

chiefzilla1501 · 12-12-2011, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

chiefzilla do you just like to be a contrarian?

Haley sucks get over it

I only argue furiously about points where I disagree with the majority.

I think Pioli and Cassel need to go. You won't find me on those threads because agreeing with the majority isn't interesting.

**dirk digler** · 12-12-2011, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I only argue furiously about points where I disagree with the majority.

I think Pioli and Cassel need to go. You won't find me on those threads because agreeing with the majority isn't interesting.

the guy had a losing record for 3 seasons what did you expect to happen?

chiefzilla1501 · 12-12-2011, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

the guy had a losing record for 3 seasons what did you expect to happen?

I expected a GM who built around the head coach he selected to be the best. Not a GM that jam-fed his philosophy onto the coach.

You know what? Todd Haley can coach for any franchise today. Scott Pioli is only limited to a handful of coaches who agree with his philosophy. Want to know why he hires from the tree? I thought it was croneyism. Turns out, it's because it's the only system he knows.

This should keep a lot of Chiefs' fans up at night.

bricks · 12-12-2011, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGM

Horrible game day decisions, the team being unprepared at the start of the season and being blown to oblivion 5 times this year is enough to get anyone fired. Sorry.

Amen

KCBOSS1 · 12-12-2011, 07:34 PM

Makes sense

**dirk digler** · 12-12-2011, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I expected a GM who built around the head coach he selected to be the best. Not a GM that jam-fed his philosophy onto the coach.

You know what? Todd Haley can coach for any franchise today. Scott Pioli is only limited to a handful of coaches who agree with his philosophy. Want to know why he hires from the tree? I thought it was croneyism. Turns out, it's because it's the only system he knows.

This should keep a lot of Chiefs' fans up at night.

I look at the offense and outside of Cassel I see Haley's fingerprints all over it.

RedNFeisty · 12-12-2011, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I only argue furiously about points where I disagree with the majority.

I think Pioli and Cassel need to go. You won't find me on those threads because agreeing with the majority isn't interesting.

I agree with you completely. Pioli didn't like or want Haley, he did what it took to get rid of him. A good GM builds a team around a head coach, not give him a terrible team and say, just deal with it, what a great GM!

**Dave Lane** · 12-12-2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

Also love how Pioli showed up in KC stating he wouldn't be firing and hiring coaches all the time, that's not how championship teams are built. He got scared though, team looked bad. Oh no. Couldn't have anything to do with injuries...

He fired Haley because he wanted to. No other reason. Dude won the division last year has major injuries and get no help in FA so Pioli can shit can him.

**** Pioli. The sooner he's fired at this point the better. If he brings in a piece of shit coach like that worthless tick Fischer, I'll surgically remove his testicles.

12-12-2011, 06:46 PM
chiefzilla1501 In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $-1725503	Why I support Todd Haley I know this is going to get me shit. Fire away. If it's true that Haley pushed back on Tyson Jackson, that tells you everything you need to know. Scott Pioli did NOT build a team around his head coach. He forced his coach to run the only system he knows. Know why Haley called Jackson a "system player"? Because Tyson Jackson is only a 3-4 DE in a 2-gap, Romeo 3-4. Does any NFL team run this defense anymore? Even the Patriots don't. Case study. What defense is Thomas Dimitroff running in Atlanta? You guessed it. A 4-3. That's because good GMs adjust their philosophy to fit the coach. Look at the new candidates for head coach. It's going to be from the tree. You know how I know that? 1) because Pioli has shown croneyism this entire time. 2) because he is so stuck on one offensive and defensive philosophy that he needs to hire a coach who follows his marching orders. Not only should we question if the 2-gap 3-4 defense is obsolete. We have to question why Pioli would expect Haley to make a complete transition to a new defense requiring totally different personnel and turn that around in 3 years. How about the obvious? Pioli is the guy who scouted Cassel for years and believed he was the long-term starter. In 3 years, the only QBs he brought in to compete for the starting job were Tyler Palko (probably Haley's choice, but that doesn't mean Pioli didn't have the power to bring a competitive veteran option in) and a 5th round pick he waited 3 years to bring in. Fail. How about the second-most obvious? Pioli forced Haley to run a 3-4 and didn't in 3 years even try to bring in a Nose Tackle. People may get on Haley's case for not getting along with Charlie Weis. It sounds like the relationship was doomed from the start and credit Whitlock for being the only guy to figure that out. Pioli has ultimate say, but if Haley flat-out didn't want to work with the guy, then don't bring him in. Pioli has to have at least some consideration for what Haley wants. And now, because of that, haley ends up looking like the asshole. The Chiefs are finding a convenient time to fire Haley because people hate the Palko decision. First of all, his choice was Palko or a 5th round rookie. Second of all, it sounds like haley's job was pretty much gone well before Palko started a game. So no... not convinced at all that Haley starts Palko if he knows his job is safe. I wouldn't even be surprised if that was just a big **** you after a while. In 3 years, Scott Pioli forces Haley to completely change his defense and doesn't spend a dime to help him out. People say the Chiefs' effort was inconsistent. I call bullshit. This team had so many talent gaps that the only way they could win was with effort. Given the Chiefs' talent, especially at the most critical positions, it's amazing they won as many games the past 2 years as they did. You give Haley the Chargers' talent, and he takes them to the top. Not every team is going to play 100% every single game. The difference is that the best teams have enough talent that they can win even when the other team outplays them. The Chiefs brought in Kyle Orton. I was okay with that move as a 1-2 year decision. But let's be serious about one thing... that's a pretty telltale sign that Pioli is bringing in McDaniels. Haley's job was to coach up players. Many players under his watch who had any kind of upside really improved. I don't like the snake-like tactics we're seeing from our front office. It sounds like they were leaking stories about Haley to discredit him. Between the Lil Wayne concert and the party before the Bears game (after a win, mind you). We've seen firey Haley before. Even with big efforts in Chicago and Pittsburgh, it looked like he just didn't have any fire. I think he knew he was through and the front office was just waiting for a chance to fire him. He's a young coach. He's going to make mistakes. The beginning of the season was a horrible mistake. But that's not one mistake that should get you fired. Flame away. I want to know... if the GM let Haley run a defense he wanted to run, have some input on his coordinator, actually gave Haley good QBs to work with... how would we have fared? And how comfortable do people feel that the grand vision for this team as long as Pioli is here is this exact New England approach that even New England isn't using anymore?
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12-12-2011, 07:14 PM	#46
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $-1551248	The only thing I support Haley on is the Patriot Way is total bullshit.
Posts: 52,115

12-12-2011, 07:16 PM	#48
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	Most of what you say is true. But you know the fact is coaches are hired to be fired. Win or GTFO, no excuses.
Posts: 47,314

12-12-2011, 07:21 PM	#51
dirk digler Please squeeze Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Clinton, MO Casino cash: $154644	chiefzilla do you just like to be a contrarian? Haley sucks get over it
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12-12-2011, 07:34 PM	#57
KCBOSS1 RAISE EM RIGHT Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Arkansas Casino cash: $10005366	Makes sense
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