Chiefs Mellinger roasts Pioli over an open flame - Page 2

Hammock Parties · 12-13-2011, 03:47 AM

This didn't get posted? ****, best thing Sammy has written.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/12/12...his-share.html

Chiefs GM Pioli due his share of blame in Haley's failures

Quote:

Scott Pioli brought this critical point in Chiefs history on himself, and now he must rise to it.

This can go one of only two ways. Championship or bust, waving from a parade or looking for work, remembered as the man who just needed to find the right coach or the general manager who repeatedly failed the men he brought on board.

Pioli fired Todd Haley, the only coach he’s ever hired. This is how their dysfunctional marriage had to end. A once-strong relationship deteriorated past personal differences and into professional obstacles.

The Chiefs could go nowhere with both Pioli and Haley in the same building, so in that way, the GM essentially pulled rank.

That was the easy part. Now we get to see, once and perhaps for all, whether Pioli is the golden-boy personnel guru from his Super Bowl-winning days in New England or just one more poser taking credit and fame off the glow of Bill Belichick’s star.

Because firing Haley is a meaningless delay tactic if Pioli doesn’t accept and reflect on his part of the Chiefs’ current mess.

We all understand that Haley made mistakes. The preseason plan was a disaster. Tyler Palko is still taking snaps long after he proved to be incompetent. An unsportsmanlike-conduct penalty against the Jets provided a sad image of Haley’s self-control, which, combined with a remarkably inconsistent and often uncompetitive season, made the Chiefs the magnetic opposite of what owner Clark Hunt wants them to be.

But if Haley failed, he followed Pioli’s example.

Because Pioli chose Haley, who coached the roster Pioli gave him. The Chiefs’ current state of disarray is as much an indictment of Pioli as Haley. The boss put the coach in a virtually unwinnable position: not enough support from either the general manager or the roster to do much more than hope for survival.

And this is where Pioli comes in. Or, more accurately, where he must come in.

Injuries to Jamaal Charles, Eric Berry, Matt Cassel and Tony Moeaki fundamentally changed what the Chiefs are capable of. But they also exposed so many of Pioli’s own shortcomings, and unless he takes this opportunity to stop creating self-assuring excuses to justify his ineffective status-quo style of management, there is no reason to believe the Chiefs can rise above NFL mediocrity.

One of Pioli’s great strengths is his thoughtfulness, his thoroughness, his steadiness. He isn’t reactive. He is measured. If he grows emotional, he has trained himself to put the decision aside until he’s calm. The most effective judgments, Pioli believes, are made with the brain, and not the heart.

This is part of what eventually led to fundamental differences with the man he hand-selected to be his first coach.

And more than just one of Pioli’s great strengths, this is also perhaps his greatest flaw … and a chunk of what is holding back the Chiefs.

Go back to the NFL’s truncated offseason. The whole thing lined up perfectly with Pioli’s sweet spot, set up to be won by the general manager with the best information and temperament to navigate what many inside the industry called the most hectic personnel period in league history.

Instead, Pioli treaded water.

He signed Steve Breaston (who shares an open and mutual man-crush on Haley) and Kelly Gregg while letting Ron Edwards and Shaun Smith walk. Opportunities to add a backup quarterback, or much-needed depth at other positions, floated by.

Pioli’s only personnel successes with the Chiefs are in the draft (Berry, Kendrick Lewis, Justin Houston) and contract extensions awarded to stars (Charles, Brandon Flowers, Tamba Hali). Notice the pattern here.

Draft selections come with inherent time limits. Negotiations for contract extensions have a predictable schedule.

Pioli is most effective when he knows what’s coming and can read the clock. He becomes tentative and hesitant among surprises and unknowns.

He wants control, over everything, and struggles in situations he can’t have it.

Nearly three full years after he took over, the Chiefs’ best players are still predominately holdovers from his predecessor, Carl Peterson, even as Pioli spends too much time and energy fixing what he sees as major holdover flaws from the previous leadership.

All of this means that Pioli is at the most critical point of his professional career in terms of how he’s remembered and thought of as a football man.

Some will expect him to close his eyes, cover his ears, la-la-la out all the criticism, and keep pushing the Chiefs in the same misguided direction.

That would support the narrative of Pioli as Ego Gone Wild, and almost certainly ensure that the Chiefs waste a championship window that will close along with the primes of Charles, Hali, Flowers and other stars.

A consequence of Pioli’s decision to speak publicly as little as possible is that it’s virtually impossible for anyone outside a small circle to know his motivations, perspective or fears.

If they did, they probably would see as much insecurity as ego. Part of his hesitation on personnel moves comes through second-guessing. Part of his focus on signing the team’s inherited stars is admitting he can’t find anyone better.

And if Pioli handles it the right way, part of firing the coach will be a very public acknowledgment that he — not Haley, not Hunt, not anyone else — made bad decisions that turned the Chiefs from division champion to disorder one year later.

How Pioli makes it through this very personal inner conflict will decide how his time in Kansas City ends. On Monday, he portrayed humility, saying he needed to do his job better.

That’s good, but ultimately irrelevant if he doesn’t do his job differently.

FringeNC · 12-13-2011, 07:15 AM

Nobody would care about Tyson Jackson, Haley and Pioli would be getting along, all would be well....if...if Matt Cassel was half the quarterback Scott Pioli still believes. A discussion about Pioli's tenure without the Cassel's failure being the focal point is worthless.

Dexter Manley · 12-13-2011, 07:23 AM

Pioli = smart, 'cause he was with the Patriots you know...

and excelled at getting his glasses spattered with Bill b's @@@@

SenselessChiefsFan · 12-13-2011, 07:26 AM

He openly said he needs to do better.

I think not having a backup QB is on Haley. Palko was clearly his pick at the position and his guy.

I think that Waters being gone is on Haley. If he tells Pioli that he needs Waters, he is still here. The Chiefs were not against the cap. Haley had butted heads with Waters and that is why he is gone.

I think that Gaither starting in San Diego is on Haley. The Chiefs would have been better off putting Albert on the Right side and having Gaither at LT. That is IF the rumors are correct about Gaither refusing to play RT. (Don't think this is true, BTW, but IF true, the CHiefs are STILL better with him at LT and Albert at RT than with Albert at LT and Richardson at RT).

I think that Orton not starting at Chicago is on Haley.

I think that overall, Pioli was working with a petulant child. Toddler Haley was a large part of the problem. The hope was that he would grow into the position. He didn't.

el borracho · 12-13-2011, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

Is it possible for KC media to trash on Cassel?

Apparently not; this author actually makes reference to some imaginary "championship window." How anyone can connect the term championship window to a team with no QB and a total of 25 wins in the last five years is beyond me.

Deberg_1990 · 12-13-2011, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

He openly said he needs to do better.

I think not having a backup QB is on Haley. Palko was clearly his pick at the position and his guy.

I think that Waters being gone is on Haley. If he tells Pioli that he needs Waters, he is still here. The Chiefs were not against the cap. Haley had butted heads with Waters and that is why he is gone.

I think that Gaither starting in San Diego is on Haley. The Chiefs would have been better off putting Albert on the Right side and having Gaither at LT. That is IF the rumors are correct about Gaither refusing to play RT. (Don't think this is true, BTW, but IF true, the CHiefs are STILL better with him at LT and Albert at RT than with Albert at LT and Richardson at RT).

I think that Orton not starting at Chicago is on Haley.

I think that overall, Pioli was working with a petulant child. Toddler Haley was a large part of the problem. The hope was that he would grow into the position. He didn't.

I agree with all this. Sure Pioli has made mistakes, but its not like he was just given nothing. Theres alot of talent on this team. A head coaches job is to analyze the skillsets hes been given and to put those players in positions to succeed. Get maximum effort. For the most part Haley was pretty lousy at that.

FAX · 12-13-2011, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

"negotiations for contract extensions have a predictable schedule."

Under Peterson those contract extensions never happened early. Always at the last minute with some bad blood brewing between players and team. Scott at least got guys signed early compared to the King.

We need a term for this ... like maybe ... "Awesome Poop Syndrome" ... where you compare average with horrible and call it good.

As for the article, there is much truth in there, but you guys are correct; he's ignoring the 500 pound moron in the room.

I know some people hated his monotonic press conferences (where he was following company policy) or his passion for the game and winning (where he was unafraid to call a spade a spade), but in the end ... when all the smoke has cleared ... and all the chips have fallen ... and all the morons have gone to bed with visions of playoffs dancing in their brains ... Haley's biggest flaw will be the fact that he couldn't coach up a disaster at quarterback and the GM's $90 million dollar, untouchable golden boy.

FAX

htismaqe · 12-13-2011, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

He openly said he needs to do better.

I think not having a backup QB is on Haley. Palko was clearly his pick at the position and his guy.

I think that Waters being gone is on Haley. If he tells Pioli that he needs Waters, he is still here. The Chiefs were not against the cap. Haley had butted heads with Waters and that is why he is gone.

I think that Gaither starting in San Diego is on Haley. The Chiefs would have been better off putting Albert on the Right side and having Gaither at LT. That is IF the rumors are correct about Gaither refusing to play RT. (Don't think this is true, BTW, but IF true, the CHiefs are STILL better with him at LT and Albert at RT than with Albert at LT and Richardson at RT).

I think that Orton not starting at Chicago is on Haley.

I think that overall, Pioli was working with a petulant child. Toddler Haley was a large part of the problem. The hope was that he would grow into the position. He didn't.

And next year when we still suck, who will you blame then? Pioli loves the suckers like you.

FAX · 12-13-2011, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

I agree with all this. Sure Pioli has made mistakes, but its not like he was just given nothing. Theres alot of talent on this team. A head coaches job is to analyze the skillsets hes been given and to put those players in positions to succeed. Get maximum effort. For the most part Haley was pretty lousy at that.

I see that differently, though.

To my mind, Haley coached up some players including Bowe, DJ, Albert, Carr ... a bunch of guys who were made better as a result of his efforts.

FAX

FAX · 12-13-2011, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

He openly said he needs to do better.

I think not having a backup QB is on Haley. Palko was clearly his pick at the position and his guy.

I think that Waters being gone is on Haley. If he tells Pioli that he needs Waters, he is still here. The Chiefs were not against the cap. Haley had butted heads with Waters and that is why he is gone.

I think that Gaither starting in San Diego is on Haley. The Chiefs would have been better off putting Albert on the Right side and having Gaither at LT. That is IF the rumors are correct about Gaither refusing to play RT. (Don't think this is true, BTW, but IF true, the CHiefs are STILL better with him at LT and Albert at RT than with Albert at LT and Richardson at RT).

I think that Orton not starting at Chicago is on Haley.

I think that overall, Pioli was working with a petulant child. Toddler Haley was a large part of the problem. The hope was that he would grow into the position. He didn't.

For someone as sensible as yourself, you suppose much and prove little.

FAX

Chiefnj2 · 12-13-2011, 07:59 AM

The press has been waiting for this since day 1 when Pioli came in and established the veil of secrecy. If KC was winning this year, the media would go along with it. But, with the team losing all guns are aimed at Pioli. Deservedly so for all of his 2009 decisions, but not for the agenda the press has.

durtyrute · 12-13-2011, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

Is it possible for KC media to trash on Cassel?

Nick is the only one that does it

Three7s · 12-13-2011, 08:14 AM

If you guys read the first bolded part, that's about as much a flame on Cassel as any. Pioli scared to take risks and not go with something he doesn't know about. That spells Cassel because he'd seen him with the Pats. The more I start hearing, the more I start believing that Pioli is crap. Even drafting Stanzi is a flaw now due to that connection with Ferentz.

The only way I'm changing my mindset is if he does what everyone else wants. DRAFT A ****ING QB IN THE 1ST ROUND WITH NO CONNECTIONS!

Deberg_1990 · 12-13-2011, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

I see that differently, though.

To my mind, Haley coached up some players including Bowe, DJ, Albert, Carr ... a bunch of guys who were made better as a result of his efforts.

FAX

They did, but the most important thing is, it didnt translate to WINS.

Also, the offense(what Haley was known for) was a complete failure under him. In 3 seasons the only time it was good and consistent was when Weis was here and really only for about an 8 or 9 game run during the middle of last year.

Cassel isnt a huge talent (thats on Pioli) but other coaches have proven you can get at production out of him at times. Haley never got anything out of him.

SenselessChiefsFan · 12-13-2011, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

And next year when we still suck, who will you blame then? Pioli loves the suckers like you.

Do you really think the Chiefs will suck? Heck, even with Haley, they would have been a lot better.

#1) We will have to see if they do, in fact, suck next year.

#2) We will have to see WHY they suck.

See, I try to be objective. I know that is so hard for people on this board to understand. I look at Cassel and can see that he is what Pioli expected. A hard worker who can be good with the right coaching and talent around him. A steady player. A guy to build with... (not build around). A guy that can hold down the position respectably until the right "franchise QB" comes along. Surely not great, but not as awful as this board thinks. Palko should have at least given us SOME appreciation for the fact that Cassel is at least a viable QB option.

But, make no mistake.... if Pioli gets the next hire at HC wrong, he should be out.

I think the late start affected his ability to get the best coach the first time. In hindsight, he would have been better off leaving Herm in place for a year while he looked around to find the right guy.

If he hires McDaniels or Ferentz, this will be his last coaching hire if they are not successful. If he hires a guy like Gruden, Cowher or Fisher, then he will get another hire if they fail.

Dexter Manley · 12-13-2011, 08:17 AM

Pioli scared to take risks...

'cause there was NO RISK in DUMPING JASON BABIN for NOTHING and CONVERTING TO A 3-4....

???????????????????????????

12-13-2011, 07:15 AM	#16
FringeNC MVP Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: NC Casino cash: $-1753986	Nobody would care about Tyson Jackson, Haley and Pioli would be getting along, all would be well....if...if Matt Cassel was half the quarterback Scott Pioli still believes. A discussion about Pioli's tenure without the Cassel's failure being the focal point is worthless.
Posts: 10,234

12-13-2011, 07:23 AM	#17
Dexter Manley Veteran Join Date: Dec 2011 Casino cash: $10004900	Pioli = smart, 'cause he was with the Patriots you know... and excelled at getting his glasses spattered with Bill b's @@@@
Posts: 1,263

12-13-2011, 07:26 AM	#18
SenselessChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10005450	He openly said he needs to do better. I think not having a backup QB is on Haley. Palko was clearly his pick at the position and his guy. I think that Waters being gone is on Haley. If he tells Pioli that he needs Waters, he is still here. The Chiefs were not against the cap. Haley had butted heads with Waters and that is why he is gone. I think that Gaither starting in San Diego is on Haley. The Chiefs would have been better off putting Albert on the Right side and having Gaither at LT. That is IF the rumors are correct about Gaither refusing to play RT. (Don't think this is true, BTW, but IF true, the CHiefs are STILL better with him at LT and Albert at RT than with Albert at LT and Richardson at RT). I think that Orton not starting at Chicago is on Haley. I think that overall, Pioli was working with a petulant child. Toddler Haley was a large part of the problem. The hope was that he would grow into the position. He didn't. __________________ A bad day at the gym is better than a good day on the Couch.
Posts: 5,540

12-13-2011, 07:59 AM	#25
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6654388	The press has been waiting for this since day 1 when Pioli came in and established the veil of secrecy. If KC was winning this year, the media would go along with it. But, with the team losing all guns are aimed at Pioli. Deservedly so for all of his 2009 decisions, but not for the agenda the press has. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,541

12-13-2011, 08:14 AM	#27
Three7s MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10084719	If you guys read the first bolded part, that's about as much a flame on Cassel as any. Pioli scared to take risks and not go with something he doesn't know about. That spells Cassel because he'd seen him with the Pats. The more I start hearing, the more I start believing that Pioli is crap. Even drafting Stanzi is a flaw now due to that connection with Ferentz. The only way I'm changing my mindset is if he does what everyone else wants. DRAFT A ****ING QB IN THE 1ST ROUND WITH NO CONNECTIONS!
Posts: 6,739

12-13-2011, 08:17 AM	#30
Dexter Manley Veteran Join Date: Dec 2011 Casino cash: $10004900	Pioli scared to take risks... 'cause there was NO RISK in DUMPING JASON BABIN for NOTHING and CONVERTING TO A 3-4.... ???????????????????????????
Posts: 1,263