Chiefs Haley's termination. Cliff notes and highlites? - Page 7

milkman · 12-13-2011, 10:33 PM

So I've worked long hours the last couple of days, and haven't had much time to read the threads.

In perusing a couple of threads, I've seen someone alluding to "things we've learned" about this firing.

Can someone enlighten me what it is we've learned?

**TimeForWasp** · 12-14-2011, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Not true, Mr. milkman. Not true at all.

We learned that it's better to act like you know what you don't know than to pretend you don't know what you know unless you know that what you don't know is something you should know.

FAX

I don't know about that. Do you know what I mean?

Hammock Parties · 12-14-2011, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

The news about him being the one that was coaching Cassel up (not Weis) is just another feather in the guys cap.

Coaching him up to the point where he threw 10 TDs and 14 INT in 11 games.

Cassel is beyond "coaching up." He had some success because he was handing it to Jamaal and playing a weak schedule.

That's it.

Quote:

What players has he failed to develop?

That's not what he's judged on.

He may have developed some individuals but he sure couldn't win with them.

jd1020 · 12-14-2011, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

IMO Haley made ONE major mistake in KC after he was hired.

Palko.

The news about him being the one that was coaching Cassel up (not Weis) is just another feather in the guys cap.

The guy is a quality coach that wasn't given the tools here to succeed.

Simple as that, again, IMO.

Within 5 years, he will be back in the saddle again as a head coach and will have learned a lot of lessons for his time as HC in KC.

Think of this for a second, guys.

What players has he failed to develop?

Where would his teams have been if he had a quarterback and the rest of the team was developing as it was?

I dont think there are many here that dont think this team would be a contender with a real franchise quarterback.

Lets just say Weis had absolutely nothing to do with Cassel, hard for me to believe. I'm not saying he didn't "wash his hands of Cassel" but he didn't simply ignore Cassel's shortcomings when drawing up and offensive game plan. How does Cassel succeeding last year pimp up Haley? If anything it makes me question him more. Everyone wanted to believe Cassel was forced on him and that he had no choice but to start him. Sounds more like he believed in him, just like he believed in Palko.

**BossChief** · 12-14-2011, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCrockaholic

Well considering Albert has already stated "NO!" that he was not referring to Haley then I'm going to go by that. Assume what you want though, because you're wrong.

One thing, though.

I dont think Albert was a fan of Haleys....Id even go so far as to say he disliked him.

Albert was a close friend of Brian Waters and Albert was the ONLY player that didnt participate in the first team activities when the lockout was lifted.

Even though he said that tweet wasnt directed at Haley, doesnt make it true...in fact, I think he did mean it to be directed towards Haley, but his agent probably told him to distance himself from the truth on it because it would give him a "problem player" label...similar to Jon Baldwins situation.

Who knows, but if I was gona place money on it, I would say that Albert doesnt really like Haley and was about the only one happy he was fired.

**cdcox** · 12-14-2011, 01:08 AM

milkman -- you deserve a better summary of "things learned".

The Pioli-Haley feud was real and it dated back to the Tyson Jackson pick. Haley was not sold. Neither Pioli or Haley ever got over it.

Supposedly, Weis decided Cassel was unsalvageable very early on and refused to invest time in him. Haley took over Cassel's mentoring and any "improvements" in Cassel's play last year were due to his influence. Then Weis got the credit for the "improvements" and Haley couldn't stand for that. Hence ended Weis' tenure in KC.

Supposedly, Pioli is still sold and committed to Cassel going forward.

So the upshot:

Pioli loves Weis.
Weis hated Cassel.
Pioli loves Cassel.
Haley loves Cassel.
Pioli won't listen to his guy Weis about Cassel.
Haley is on the same page as Pioli on Cassel, yet they openly war.
Obviously the whole franchise is dys-****ing-functional.
Meanwhile Clark fiddles while Rome burns.

Fritz88 · 12-14-2011, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Things we learned:

1) Haley didnt run Weis out of town. He left because he washed his hands of trying to develop Cassel at the halfway point and ALL of the credit for Cassels improvement was due to HALEY, NOT WEIS.

2) Romeo wants the job, but wants to hire his own coaches, if he doesn't get it he thinks whoever does should be able to hire his own guys as coaches.

3) Pioli was leaking rumors about Haley all year

4) The players were totally in Haleys corner.

How is 1) not running Weis out of town? Everyone knows that Haley isn't the most civil person to disagree with and so is Weis.

3) what's your proof? As much as I have issues with him, I don't think he'd resort to that. Haley made a clown out of himself. No need to leak anything. If there were any leaks, it should be the other way around.

4) Only DJ and Battle expressed such sentiments, IIRC. That doesn't equate all players.
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KCrockaholic · 12-14-2011, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

One thing, though.

I dont think Albert was a fan of Haleys....Id even go so far as to say he disliked him.

Albert was a close friend of Brian Waters and Albert was the ONLY player that didnt participate in the first team activities when the lockout was lifted.

Even though he said that tweet wasnt directed at Haley, doesnt make it true...in fact, I think he did mean it to be directed towards Haley, but his agent probably told him to distance himself from the truth on it because it would give him a "problem player" label...similar to Jon Baldwins situation.

Who knows, but if I was gona place money on it, I would say that Albert doesnt really like Haley and was about the only one happy he was fired.

Oh I'm not saying that maybe Albert didn't like Haley, but for anyone to assume his tweet was about Haley or a shot at Haley, are just assumptions that don't need to be made. Especially when he later stated multiple times that it was not about Haley.

Like I said. The "majority" of the players loved Haley. I've NEVER heard of a team that had every single player behind his HC 100%. It just doesn't happen.

jd1020 · 12-14-2011, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCrockaholic

Oh I'm not saying that maybe Albert didn't like Haley, but for anyone to assume his tweet was about Haley or a shot at Haley, are just assumptions that don't need to be made. Especially when he later stated multiple times that it was not about Haley.

Like I said. The "majority" of the players loved Haley. I've NEVER heard of a team that had every single player behind his HC 100%. It just doesn't happen.

Saying that the "majority" of players loved Haley, based on a handful of the roster, is an assumption too...

Show me the "50+1" clamoring for Haley.

KCrockaholic · 12-14-2011, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Saying that the "majority" of players loved Haley, based on a handful of the roster, is an assumption too...

I can only go by what I've gathered and quotes from players over time. And when guys like Flowers have spoken, they speak for the whole team when they'd say "He's like one of the guys".

jd1020 · 12-14-2011, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCrockaholic

I can only go by what I've gathered and quotes from players over time. And when guys like Flowers have spoken, they speak for the whole team when they'd say "He's like one of the guys".

More assumptive bullshit.

Fritz88 · 12-14-2011, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox

The Pioli-Haley feud was real and it dated back to the Tyson Jackson pick. Haley was not sold. Neither Pioli or Haley ever got over it.

Supposedly, Weis decided Cassel was unsalvageable very early on and refused to invest time in him. Haley took over Cassel's mentoring and any "improvements" in Cassel's play last year were due to his influence. Then Weis got the credit for the "improvements" and Haley couldn't stand for that. Hence ended Weis' tenure in KC.

Then why wasn't Cassel improving this season? Why didn't Cassel show any flashes of being an average QB in Haley's first season?

It was all Weis who got the most out of Cassel by calling the right plays and knowing how to maximize the potential of those around him.
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KCrockaholic · 12-14-2011, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

More assumptive bullshit.

That's fine. But I'm not wrong on this topic of Haley. There's many things to pick him apart for, such as in game decisions. But being liked by the team was one of his stronger areas.

**BigMeatballDave** · 12-14-2011, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fritz88

Then why wasn't Cassel improving this season? Why didn't Cassel show any flashes of being an average QB in Haley's first season?

It was all Weis who got the most out of Cassel by calling the right plays and knowing how to maximize the potential of those around him.
Posted via Mobile Device

2 words: Jamaal Charles

**BossChief** · 12-14-2011, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

Coaching him up to the point where he threw 10 TDs and 14 INT in 11 games.

Cassel is beyond "coaching up." He had some success because he was handing it to Jamaal and playing a weak schedule.

That's it.

That's not what he's judged on.

He may have developed some individuals but he sure couldn't win with them.

Haley did a fine job of polishing a turd in 2010. He made Cassel look like a NFL quarterback....that alone should tell you how good of a coach he is.

Its not his fault the player has severe limitations that make it nearly impossible for him to be coached up any further.

Come to think of it, a lot of this year makes more sense now.

Haley and Weis developed a gameplan for the year to limit how much Cassel had to do and let the rest of the team win games and brought Cassel along slowly...giving him more on his plate week after week.

This year, we all questioned "why are they putting the ball in Cassels hands so much"...well, thats the natural progression of developing a quarterback. Keep adding more and more until he has full command of the offense.

Haley was giving Cassel the opportunity to take his game to the next level and Cassel showed the world he was unable to do so.

Its not Haleys fault he was handcuffed to a incapable quarterback to lead a NFL team to playoff wins and a chance at a championship or 2.

Cassel put him in position to be able to take that step, Cassel just couldnt do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Lets just say Weis had absolutely nothing to do with Cassel, hard for me to believe. I'm not saying he didn't "wash his hands of Cassel" but he didn't simply ignore Cassel's shortcomings when drawing up and offensive game plan. How does Cassel succeeding last year pimp up Haley? If anything it makes me question him more. Everyone wanted to believe Cassel was forced on him and that he had no choice but to start him. Sounds more like he believed in him, just like he believed in Palko.

No doubt it was Weis that developed the "one read, quick throws" passing game to hide the fact that Cassel can not go through progressions and simply lacks the gene that makes quarterbacks test the defenses ability to defend the deep halves.

Haley had no choice but to "believe in Cassel" as you state.

Pioli never got anyone in there that Haley could make a change to when things got so bad.

NOBODY.

Thats why I say that Haleys ONLY major mistake here was Palko...who was seemingly HIS GUY.

...

Heres a sickening fact:

Pioli thought Cassel was his next Tom Brady and Haley thought Tyler Palko was his next Tony Romo.

I bet these guys are pretty damn good in practice, but when the real bullets start flying, they become clueless, drooling, mouth breathing reeruns.

I will always believe that Haley would have saved his job if he had just moved on to Stanzi after Palkos first game.

ChiefBlitz · 12-14-2011, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugeater

How ****ed are we you ask? Well, we're so ****ing ****ed that we couldn't be more ****ed on our ****ingest day even if we had an electrified ****ing machine.

DON'T DRINK AND POST!

12-13-2011, 10:33 PM
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	Haley's termination. Cliff notes and highlites? So I've worked long hours the last couple of days, and haven't had much time to read the threads. In perusing a couple of threads, I've seen someone alluding to "things we've learned" about this firing. Can someone enlighten me what it is we've learned?
Posts: 70,769

12-14-2011, 01:08 AM	#95
cdcox www.nfl-forecast.com Join Date: Sep 2000 Casino cash: $-568231	milkman -- you deserve a better summary of "things learned". The Pioli-Haley feud was real and it dated back to the Tyson Jackson pick. Haley was not sold. Neither Pioli or Haley ever got over it. Supposedly, Weis decided Cassel was unsalvageable very early on and refused to invest time in him. Haley took over Cassel's mentoring and any "improvements" in Cassel's play last year were due to his influence. Then Weis got the credit for the "improvements" and Haley couldn't stand for that. Hence ended Weis' tenure in KC. Supposedly, Pioli is still sold and committed to Cassel going forward. So the upshot: Pioli loves Weis. Weis hated Cassel. Pioli loves Cassel. Haley loves Cassel. Pioli won't listen to his guy Weis about Cassel. Haley is on the same page as Pioli on Cassel, yet they openly war. Obviously the whole franchise is dys-****ing-functional. Meanwhile Clark fiddles while Rome burns.
Posts: 46,032