Chiefs The playcalling difference... - Page 8

**petegz28** · 12-19-2011, 10:54 AM

The difference in playcalling yesterday compared to the entire season if not the last 3 seasons was just ****ing mind bottling! Not 1,2,3, but 4 screens in one game? TE's being hit over the middle for more than 3 yards? No Dex up the middle for -2?

Ok, so, was this really because of Orton who had practiced really all of one week? Or was this because Haley was not there to chain down Muir on the playcalling?

Don't get me wrong, I am not here to sell Muir as a good OC. But JFC...we were a totally different team all the way around? How does this happen in less than a week? How does a team that couldn't get a first down to save their life suddenly go to punting onl twice the entire game with 0 turnovers and 0 sacks?

Obviously Orton brings a lot to that situation but it was the non-passing plays that stuck out the most. Particularly the lack of running Mighty Mouse 1.5 up the middle constantly for not.

I think Haley was a damper on this offense. When Muir and Zorn can take the same roster of backups and retirees with a QB that has been practing for all of a few days and turnout the performance we saw against The Pack then yu have to say that either Orton was football God's gift to the Chiefs or Muir and Zorn were finally able to call an offense that would actually produce.

RINGLEADER · 12-19-2011, 02:24 PM

Part of it was because we were facing an average defense.

Part of it was because the Packers were selling out against the run and Orton made them pay.

Part of it was because Orton was rarely pressured and when he was he took it like a man.

Part of it was because the offense controlled TOP and the defense weren't out there every 5 minutes.

**BigMeatballDave** · 12-19-2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Beans

It seems we've come to a chicken or the egg style debate here...

Could we not say that the QB and the play calling are co-evolutionary forces, each playing off one another, the confluence of the two resulting in the postive outcome we're debating today?

Possibly. I know what I saw though.

I saw a QB who could read a D.
Who looked confident in the pocket.
Who went through his progressions quickly.
Who has a quicker release.
WHO LOOKED DOWNFIELD AND HIT OPEN RECEIVERS.

Red Beans · 12-19-2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

Possibly. I know what I saw though.

I saw a QB who could read a D.
Who looked confident in the pocket.
Who went through his progressions quickly.
Who has a quicker release.
WHO LOOKED DOWNFIELD AND HIT OPEN RECEIVERS.

I agree. He looked like the best QB we've had under center in the last several seasons.

htismaqe · 12-19-2011, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Beans

I'm not saying he didn't. I'm saying they ran him outside more than they have all year. That's all I'm saying. I'm not talking about his stats, becasue while you may have pointed out he played no differently, and maybe worse than his averages, he was effective as a greater part of a more effective offense. His individual play wasn't any better, but his role was better, his useage was timed better...

Except that they didn't. He had 2 middle runs, 2 offtackle runs (1 left, 1 right) and one toss play (I think it was a toss right?), all for a grand total of 2.78 yards per carry. In the running game, he wasn't any different than usual.

In the screen game, he absolutely was more effective and it was 100% because of Orton selling the action. Running a screen means allowing pass rushers to come to the QB in order to sell it - Cassel can't do it without panic. I've seen it up close and in person.

**Dave Lane** · 12-19-2011, 02:28 PM

There is a lot of obtuseness in this thread.

DaWolf · 12-19-2011, 02:59 PM

1) The QB play was competent
2) The D we played is not very good when they don't cause turnovers

**BigMeatballDave** · 12-19-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaWolf

1) The QB play was competent
2) The D we played is not very good when they don't cause turnovers

More or less. However, they've looked bad on O vs shittier Ds

trndobrd · 12-19-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The defense has to respect the passing game for the first time in forever. Mike McCarthy even said so.

Link?

Hog's Gone Fishin · 12-19-2011, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

Playcalling looked about the same to me. The difference is that we had a QB who could execute.

Orton shows to be 10 x better than Cassel. And Orton sucks. Well actually he doesn't suck now that he's a Chief.

ReynardMuldrake · 12-19-2011, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trndobrd

Link?

I heard McCarthy called Orton a "damned good" quarterback.

**DaKCMan AP** · 12-19-2011, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

A draw is not the power slam we have been trying with him all season. I am not talking about a draw. Get rid of the draw for this discussion. He is designed to run the draw. He is not designed to power it up the middle like we have seen them attempt to do time and time and time again, except yesterday.

Do you just make this stuff up?

You mean the draw like these? During our previous 4 games?

Den @ KC
2nd quarter
1-10-KC 43 (2:13) (Shotgun) 22-D.McCluster left guard to KC 45 for 2 yards (55-D.Williams).

KC @ NE
1st quarter
3-7-KC 23 (14:24) (Shotgun) 22-D.McCluster right end to KC 29 for 6 yards (74-K.Love).
3rd quarter
1-10-NE 43 (5:28) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 22-D.McCluster up the middle to NE 41 for 2 yards (98-G.Warren).

Pit @ KC
3rd quarter
2-1-KC 43 (2:02) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 22-D.McCluster up the middle to KC 45 for 2 yards (99-B.Keisel).
4th quarter
1-10-PIT 30 (8:51) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 22-D.McCluster right end to PIT 30 for no gain (93-J.Worilds).

KC @ Chi
3rd quarter
3-4-CHI 12 (8:24) (Shotgun) 22-D.McCluster left tackle to CHI 5 for 7 yards (20-C.Steltz).
3-10-CHI 10 (7:02) (Shotgun) 22-D.McCluster left guard to CHI 3 for 7 yards (55-L.Briggs).
3-12-KC 22 (5:21) (Shotgun) 22-D.McCluster right end to KC 25 for 3 yards (90-J.Peppers).

Chiefaholic · 12-19-2011, 05:06 PM

I don't credit Muir for playcalling, the credit goes to a QB who checks down and actually puts the damn ball in the vicinity for the WR to catch it. In no way, shape, or form is Kyle Orton a franchise QB, but he's leaps and bounds better than Cassel or Palco. Next season we still need to draft a QB high in the draft if it's optional, sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal, and groom the two youngsters to lead this franchise for years to come.

Hammock Parties · 12-19-2011, 05:08 PM

I honestly think most of it was just Green Bay's defense.

They are that bad.

I would not expect the line to give Orton that much time the next two weeks. Especially in Denver.

Extra Point · 12-19-2011, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReynardMuldrake

Yeah, I got giddy seeing Orton call an audible yesterday. I'd forgotten what those looked like!

Glad you brought that up!

How many times did Neckbeard call an audible?

At their 1-3 yard line, why the Hell didn't we run on all downs, into the A or B gap, with Battle? We can't pass in the red zone; there's not enough yardage, to do so.

Extra Point · 12-19-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefaholic

I don't credit Muir for playcalling, the credit goes to a QB who checks down and actually puts the damn ball in the vicinity for the WR to catch it. In no way, shape, or form is Kyle Orton a franchise QB, but he's leaps and bounds better than Cassel or Palco. Next season we still need to draft a QB high in the draft if it's optional, sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal, and groom the two youngsters to lead this franchise for years to come.

Zone reads is something that Orton can do, that Cassel can't.

Cassel can't think into that; Orton can.

Orton ~ Gannon (I don't have a double squiggly key. Sorry)

12-19-2011, 10:54 AM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-1115873	The playcalling difference... The difference in playcalling yesterday compared to the entire season if not the last 3 seasons was just ****ing mind bottling! Not 1,2,3, but 4 screens in one game? TE's being hit over the middle for more than 3 yards? No Dex up the middle for -2? Ok, so, was this really because of Orton who had practiced really all of one week? Or was this because Haley was not there to chain down Muir on the playcalling? Don't get me wrong, I am not here to sell Muir as a good OC. But JFC...we were a totally different team all the way around? How does this happen in less than a week? How does a team that couldn't get a first down to save their life suddenly go to punting onl twice the entire game with 0 turnovers and 0 sacks? Obviously Orton brings a lot to that situation but it was the non-passing plays that stuck out the most. Particularly the lack of running Mighty Mouse 1.5 up the middle constantly for not. I think Haley was a damper on this offense. When Muir and Zorn can take the same roster of backups and retirees with a QB that has been practing for all of a few days and turnout the performance we saw against The Pack then yu have to say that either Orton was football God's gift to the Chiefs or Muir and Zorn were finally able to call an offense that would actually produce.
Posts: 132,504

12-19-2011, 02:24 PM	#106
RINGLEADER In Search of a Life Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Confusion, USA Casino cash: $8070503	Part of it was because we were facing an average defense. Part of it was because the Packers were selling out against the run and Orton made them pay. Part of it was because Orton was rarely pressured and when he was he took it like a man. Part of it was because the offense controlled TOP and the defense weren't out there every 5 minutes.
Posts: 48,491

12-19-2011, 02:28 PM	#110
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	There is a lot of obtuseness in this thread. __________________ Thanks, Trump for the civics lesson. We are learning so much about RICO, espionage, sedition, impeachment, the 25th Amendment, order of succession, nepotism, separation of powers, 1st Amendment, obstruction of justice, the emoluments clause, conflicts of interest, collusion, sanctions, oligarchs, money laundering and so much more.
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12-19-2011, 02:59 PM	#111
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	1) The QB play was competent 2) The D we played is not very good when they don't cause turnovers
Posts: 6,798

12-19-2011, 05:06 PM	#117
Chiefaholic Veteran Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $460027	I don't credit Muir for playcalling, the credit goes to a QB who checks down and actually puts the damn ball in the vicinity for the WR to catch it. In no way, shape, or form is Kyle Orton a franchise QB, but he's leaps and bounds better than Cassel or Palco. Next season we still need to draft a QB high in the draft if it's optional, sign Orton to a 2-3 year deal, and groom the two youngsters to lead this franchise for years to come. __________________
Posts: 4,832

12-19-2011, 05:08 PM	#118
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $790478	I honestly think most of it was just Green Bay's defense. They are that bad. I would not expect the line to give Orton that much time the next two weeks. Especially in Denver. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,459