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Old 12-21-2011, 10:51 AM   #1
wutamess wutamess is offline
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Originally Posted by Pestilence View Post
That sounds a lot like Cassel in New England.
THIS! I've said it form day 1.
Although... Cassle STILL led the league in sacks that year.
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Old 12-21-2011, 11:11 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by wutamess View Post
THIS! I've said it form day 1.
Although... Cassle STILL led the league in sacks that year.
Not sure what you're getting at.

YAC, in large part, is a product of the QB delivering the ball accurately and on time.

In New England, McDumbass kept it as simple as he could for Cassel, and essentially ran a college spread in order to maximize Cassel's production.

When it gets more complicated than that, Cassel can not deliver the ball accurately and on time.

As for Orton, while he can do this in a more complicated offense, he absolutely has to have everything working for him to be effective.

If things start to break down, he is terrible.

I want a QB that can carry his team when things break down.

I don't want a QB that has to be carried, and Orton is one that has to be carried.
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:14 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by milkman View Post
Not sure what you're getting at.

YAC, in large part, is a product of the QB delivering the ball accurately and on time.

In New England, McDumbass kept it as simple as he could for Cassel, and essentially ran a college spread in order to maximize Cassel's production.

When it gets more complicated than that, Cassel can not deliver the ball accurately and on time.

As for Orton, while he can do this in a more complicated offense, he absolutely has to have everything working for him to be effective.

If things start to break down, he is terrible.

I want a QB that can carry his team when things break down.

I don't want a QB that has to be carried, and Orton is one that has to be carried.
Orton doesn't need EVERYTHING else working to be effective. But he does need SOMETHING else working.

In this era a free agency and salary caps, teams can no longer build dynastic teams that are strong EVERYWHERE. So they have to pick and choose where they focus their strengths. Passing Offense, Running Offense, Special Teams, or Defense. Teams need to have it working in at least TWO of those areas to be successful. No NFL QB is going to get very far nowadays without some help from one of those other areas.

Give Orton a team that's decent in any one of those areas and he can run a passing Offense well enough for a winning team. Last weekend, I saw a Chiefs team that was executing well on Defense and running the ball well. That allowed the passing game some room to work and the result was a win over the unbeaten defending SB Champs...
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:18 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Denny View Post
Give Orton a team that's decent in any one of those areas and he can run a passing Offense well enough for a winning team.
"well enough for a winning team". Great! Chiefs fans, don't ever change.
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:28 PM   #5
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"well enough for a winning team". Great! Chiefs fans, don't ever change.
Why do fans always expect their teams to magically transform from a dumpster fire into world-beating Super Bowl Champs by simply drafting some flashy college QB?

Football is very much a TEAM sport. It takes more than a single player to win.

At any given time there's probably 3-4 QBs in the NFL capable of transforming a team - see Indy with and without Peyton Manning. That leaves 28 teams without such a transforming player - and virtually no chance of acquiring one. Yet the teams without those elite QBs still manage to win. See the 49ers this year.

So, do you keep beating your head against the wall wishing the QB-fairy would finally visit your team, or do you go with the best QB available and build the best team that you can?

I don't think that KC's problem has been the lack of an elite QB. It's been a lack of commitment in building a great team overall.
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:41 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Denny View Post
Why do fans always expect their teams to magically transform from a dumpster fire into world-beating Super Bowl Champs by simply drafting some flashy college QB?

Football is very much a TEAM sport. It takes more than a single player to win.

At any given time there's probably 3-4 QBs in the NFL capable of transforming a team - see Indy with and without Peyton Manning. That leaves 28 teams without such a transforming player - and virtually no chance of acquiring one. Yet the teams without those elite QBs still manage to win. See the 49ers this year.

So, do you keep beating your head against the wall wishing the QB-fairy would finally visit your team, or do you go with the best QB available and build the best team that you can?

I don't think that KC's problem has been the lack of an elite QB. It's been a lack of commitment in building a great team overall.
This kind of thinking is why this team is always an also-ran. You can be stacked at every single position except QB and hope to be the 2000 Ravens or the 2002 Buccaneers, or you can realize that there is no bigger factor in having a championship team than having a franchise QB.
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:51 PM   #7
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This kind of thinking is why this team is always an also-ran. You can be stacked at every single position except QB and hope to be the 2000 Ravens or the 2002 Buccaneers, or you can realize that there is no bigger factor in having a championship team than having a franchise QB.
But building a solid all-around team with a solid QB is a LOT EASIER to do than finding an "elite QB." Too many teams ignore doing the rest of the work as they engage on one wild-goose-chase after another seeking the semi-mythical "great" QB.

No one says that you can keep looking for a great QB while you build a good overall team. If one comes along, sure - grab him.

But that's not what happens. Teams throw away solid QBs that they can win a lot a games with in a frantic, panicked search for "THE GUY." Squandering resources grabbing up one false hope after another.

Or else the Front Office uses the QB position as an excuse why they can't build a winner, rather than admitting to their own incompetence...
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:45 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Denny View Post
I don't think that KC's problem has been the lack of an elite QB. It's been a lack of commitment in building a great team overall.
That explains why we have playoff losses to teams quarterbacked by Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, John Elway and Peyton Manning in the last 18 years.
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:51 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Omega View Post
That explains why we have playoff losses to teams quarterbacked by Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, John Elway and Peyton Manning in the last 18 years.
Since 1993:

Montana > O'Donnell
Montana > Moon
Montana < Kelly
Montana < Marino
Bono < Harbaugh
Grbac < Elway
Green < Manning
Green < Manning
Cassel < Flacco

That's not a coincidence.
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:58 PM   #10
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I don't think that KC's problem has been the lack of an elite QB. It's been a lack of commitment in building a great team overall.
This also explains why it took the Steelers 14 years to win a Super Bowl under Bill Cowher.

It actually wasn't the fact that Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox sucked.

Nope. For 13 years the Steelers just weren't committed to building great teams.

When they finally wised up, BOOM! Super Bowl. Ben Roethlisberger just happened to be the benefactor of good timing.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Omega View Post
This also explains why it took the Steelers 14 years to win a Super Bowl under Bill Cowher.

It actually wasn't the fact that Neil O'Donnell, Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox sucked.

Nope. For 13 years the Steelers just weren't committed to building great teams.

When they finally wised up, BOOM! Super Bowl. Ben Roethlisberger just happened to be the benefactor of good timing.
You're on a roll.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:53 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Denny View Post
Why do fans always expect their teams to magically transform from a dumpster fire into world-beating Super Bowl Champs by simply drafting some flashy college QB?

Football is very much a TEAM sport. It takes more than a single player to win.

At any given time there's probably 3-4 QBs in the NFL capable of transforming a team - see Indy with and without Peyton Manning. That leaves 28 teams without such a transforming player - and virtually no chance of acquiring one. Yet the teams without those elite QBs still manage to win. See the 49ers this year.

So, do you keep beating your head against the wall wishing the QB-fairy would finally visit your team, or do you go with the best QB available and build the best team that you can?

I don't think that KC's problem has been the lack of an elite QB. It's been a lack of commitment in building a great team overall.
This year's 9ers are built from the same blueprint that the Chiefs in the 90s.

Run the ball and play defense, while asking your mediocre QB to manage the game.

How many SBs did that win?

The QB position is even more important in today's NFL.
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