Would you consider the offseason FA period a success for the Chiefs?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by L.A.Chieffan

i said other than age. thanks for proving me right.

Carr is better. Don't be a Homer.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Carr is better. Don't be a Homer.

How? Show me. Dont be a homer.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by L.A.Chieffan

How? Show me. Dont be a homer.

At this point in time, I would agree that Carr is better, and had he stayed in KC under the tutelage of Emmit Thomas, he still had potential to continue to improve.

However, I don't think the droppoff from Carr to Routt is significant, and under the tutelage of Thomas, his first really good coach, he also has the chance to improve.

I have suppported Carr from his first day as a Chief, and no one has been more of a fan.

The reality is, though, that the contract he signed with Dallas was just not practical in KC, and he isn't 4 mil better than Routt.

[Saul Good]

Originally Posted by milkman

The reality is, though, that the contract he signed with Dallas was just not practical in KC, and he isn't 4 mil better than Routt.

The difference in salary between Carr and Routt was basically Winston.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Carr is better. Don't be a Homer.

Here, let me help you out. Football Outsiders CB charting for 2011 up through week 13:


Top 12 CB in Success Rate, 2011 (through Week 13)
Player Team Passes Suc% Yd/Pass Avg Dist YAC
D.Revis NYJ 30 73% 3.0 17.1 2.2
J.Greer NO 63 71% 5.6 11.2 7.1
I.Taylor PIT 72 70% 4.9 13.7 2.6
R.Sherman SEA 49 69% 6.1 13.4 3.0
A.Samuel PHI 55 67% 4.5 14.8 2.2
S.Routt OAK 58 67% 4.8 10.9 2.7
D.Patterson CLE 34 67% 5.9 9.3 4.7
J.Wilson WAS 53 66% 5.9 12.5 3.3
C.Finnegan TEN 40 65% 4.0 7.2 2.9
R.Mathis JAC 34 65% 9.1 13.3 5.9
B.Grimes ATL 44 64% 6.5 14.8 5.2
C.Gamble CAR 35 63% 6.8 11.7 3.1

Essentially, Routt is the 6th best CB in the league and that's while covering the opposing teams #1. Notice who's NOT on the list?

Also interestingly the other guy whos on the list Finnegan just signed for $10 mil so we got a better CB for cheaper there as well.

Check out what PFF says about the Carr signing:

"Brandon Carr to DAL: Carr is a good cornerback, but the Cowboys have spent an awful lot of money on potential as opposed to production. He is an upgrade for their secondary, but one that may struggle to live up to the price tag."

Now again, tell me why Carr is SO MUCH BETTER than Routt?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by L.A.Chieffan

Here, let me help you out. Football Outsiders CB charting for 2011 up through week 13:


Top 12 CB in Success Rate, 2011 (through Week 13)
Player Team Passes Suc% Yd/Pass Avg Dist YAC
D.Revis NYJ 30 73% 3.0 17.1 2.2
J.Greer NO 63 71% 5.6 11.2 7.1
I.Taylor PIT 72 70% 4.9 13.7 2.6
R.Sherman SEA 49 69% 6.1 13.4 3.0
A.Samuel PHI 55 67% 4.5 14.8 2.2
S.Routt OAK 58 67% 4.8 10.9 2.7
D.Patterson CLE 34 67% 5.9 9.3 4.7
J.Wilson WAS 53 66% 5.9 12.5 3.3
C.Finnegan TEN 40 65% 4.0 7.2 2.9
R.Mathis JAC 34 65% 9.1 13.3 5.9
B.Grimes ATL 44 64% 6.5 14.8 5.2
C.Gamble CAR 35 63% 6.8 11.7 3.1

Essentially, Routt is the 6th best CB in the league and that's while covering the opposing teams #1. Notice who's NOT on the list?

Also interestingly the other guy whos on the list Finnegan just signed for $10 mil so we got a better CB for cheaper there as well.

Check out what PFF says about the Carr signing:

"Brandon Carr to DAL: Carr is a good cornerback, but the Cowboys have spent an awful lot of money on potential as opposed to production. He is an upgrade for their secondary, but one that may struggle to live up to the price tag."

Now again, tell me why Carr is SO MUCH BETTER than Routt?

Routt is not the NFL's 6th best CB. You can't look at statistics and even begin to suggest these are parallel situations. Brandon Carr did in fact grade in the top 10 in 2010, and that's despite the fact that the Chiefs had a horrendous pass rush which leaves your corners on your man for longer and that allows your QB to patiently step into throws.

There's plenty of reasons why statistically Carr rates as worse. The Chiefs had a horrendous pass rush for most of this season. The pass rush didn't step up until Houston started to emerge later in the season. The Chiefs had horrendous safety help all of this season. For most of the season, especially during the Palko era, the Chiefs' defense was on the field for entirely too long. That drains the hell out of your defense. That tires out Carr. More importantly, it tires out your pass rushers, which again goes back to the problem of Carr having to cover for longer.

Carr is a better player and his upside makes him even better. In 2012, getting Berry back and having Houston all year long as well as getting great coaching, he'd only get much better.

[L.A. Chieffan]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Routt is not the NFL's 6th best CB. You can't look at statistics and even begin to suggest these are parallel situations. Brandon Carr did in fact grade in the top 10 in 2010, and that's despite the fact that the Chiefs had a horrendous pass rush which leaves your corners on your man for longer and that allows your QB to patiently step into throws.

There's plenty of reasons why statistically Carr rates as worse. The Chiefs had a horrendous pass rush for most of this season. The pass rush didn't step up until Houston started to emerge later in the season. The Chiefs had horrendous safety help all of this season. For most of the season, especially during the Palko era, the Chiefs' defense was on the field for entirely too long. That drains the hell out of your defense. That tires out Carr. More importantly, it tires out your pass rushers, which again goes back to the problem of Carr having to cover for longer.

Carr is a better player and his upside makes him even better. In 2012, getting Berry back and having Houston all year long as well as getting great coaching, he'd only get much better.

Oh ok, so you cant use stats now. BUT WAIT, since you just DID when you mentioned 2010 here you go:


Top 10 Cornerbacks in Success Rate, 2010
Player Team Charted
Targets Yd/Pass Rk Success
Rate Rk Avg. Pass
Distance YAC Rk
Darrelle Revis NYJ 57 5.6 11 70% 1 16.5 4.7 74
Antoine Winfield MIN 57 4.2 1 67% 2 9.0 3.4 40
Stanford Routt OAK 92 5.7 13 66% 3 15.1 4.9 77
Tramon Williams GB 83 5.5 9 66% 4 14.3 4.0 55
Ronald Bartell STL 83 5.2 5 65% 5 14.0 3.2 36
Sean Smith MIA 49 6.7 29 63% 6 11.8 4.4 68
E.J. Biggers TB 65 5.7 12 63% 7 13.3 2.9 25
Joselio Hanson PHI 46 4.4 2 63% 8 9.2 1.5 1
Antonio Cromartie NYJ 102 6.0 16 63% 9 17.1 3.2 32
Brandon Carr KC 105 7.1 35 61% 10 16.1 4.2 58


SPIN SPIN SPIN

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by L.A.Chieffan

Oh ok, so you cant use stats now. BUT WAIT, since you just DID when you mentioned 2010 here you go:


Top 10 Cornerbacks in Success Rate, 2010
Player Team Charted
Targets Yd/Pass Rk Success
Rate Rk Avg. Pass
Distance YAC Rk
Darrelle Revis NYJ 57 5.6 11 70% 1 16.5 4.7 74
Antoine Winfield MIN 57 4.2 1 67% 2 9.0 3.4 40
Stanford Routt OAK 92 5.7 13 66% 3 15.1 4.9 77
Tramon Williams GB 83 5.5 9 66% 4 14.3 4.0 55
Ronald Bartell STL 83 5.2 5 65% 5 14.0 3.2 36
Sean Smith MIA 49 6.7 29 63% 6 11.8 4.4 68
E.J. Biggers TB 65 5.7 12 63% 7 13.3 2.9 25
Joselio Hanson PHI 46 4.4 2 63% 8 9.2 1.5 1
Antonio Cromartie NYJ 102 6.0 16 63% 9 17.1 3.2 32
Brandon Carr KC 105 7.1 35 61% 10 16.1 4.2 58


SPIN SPIN SPIN

Darrelle Revis is a rare exception. He's a guy who can shut a guy down on an island. Most CBs need help from a supporting cast. A good defensive pass rush makes your CBs look great. It forces QBs to make bad decisions. It turns an accurate throw into an inaccurate throw. We know that the Chiefs in 2010 had a horribly inconsistent pass rush. It was completely invisible for most of those games. The Raiders have a whole lot more push. Their defensive interior is incredibly active and Richard Seymour is the type of guy who influences QBs on a snap by snap basis.

In 2011, there are tons of situational things that could leave Carr out of the top 10. Adding Berry and having Houston all season long would probably have put him back, and he probably could have even broken the top 5.

Your statistics may prove that Routt is a good corner, which we already knew. It doesn't say he's better than Carr. In almost every single free agency wish list, Carr was consistently ranked ahead of Routt.