Should Penn State Get the Death Penalty?

[Trivers]

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/481264...lege_football/


Looks like officials are going from Penn State to state pen. (Sorry, I couldn't help myself.)

What say ye? If so, for how long?

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by lcarus

This mess shows that SOME of the people at Penn State put the football program ahead of decency, and those people should be drawn out and stoned to death for all I care.

Those some were all of the most important people on that campus.

Time to recalibrate for the sake of the institution and its integrity moving forward. If tax payers/donors need to pick up the portion of the $18M slack from football, so be it.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by tk13

I'd have to agree that I think it would hurt... but I don't think it would cripple the university in the off chance they would get the death penalty. It would certainly cripple the football program though.

Of course it wouldn't cripple anything. Football is probably largely funding and allowing for an athletic department profit.

My guess? The athletic department would probably only break even or suffer a slight deficit without football. Does that hurt? **** yes.

But, oh, the travesty of all those people!

[BigRock]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Plus hundreds of millions of dollars in settlement losses and massive punishments to all those involved. More than likely, there will be massive mandated compliance changes that are going to add even more cost.

Why do we continue to ignore those things?

Because none of them have anything to do with the NCAA's potential punishment of Penn State? Could that possibly be it?

Someone earlier in the thread said Penn State should get the death penalty or nothing. If the NCAA took your advice and utterly trivialized this situation by handing out a punishment akin to USC's, I would concur that they'd be better served by saying it's not their place and doing nothing.

[cdcox]

Alumni donations are an essential part of any major university's financial picture. Penn State raised $1B during a recent capital campaign. There is no doubt that the football team is a key connection for most alumni to their alma mater. How much of that $1B would Penn State raise without their football team? Hard to say, but I'm sure it's in the 9 figure range.

[lcarus]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Those some we're all of the most important people on that campus.

Time to recalibrate for the sake of the institution and its integrity moving forward. If tax payers/donors need to pick up the portion of the $18M slack from football, so be it.

If they were to take a year off and recalibrate - replace all the assholes that were involved with this - if that's what it takes for the school and the program to get it's fresh start, then fine whatever. But something like 5 years or more is just a bit much. I know someone will probably reply with something like "Well the victims have to live with this their whole lives!" but really, it isn't the game of football that raped the children, nor is it the game of football's fault that it was covered up. The people that covered it up did it for the sake of the football program, but it's still only those particular people that did something wrong.

Again, however long they wanna stop the program to finish the investigation into this matter, is fine.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by cdcox

Alumni donations are an essential part of any major university's financial picture. Penn State recently raised $1B during a recent capital campaign. There is no doubt that the football team is a key connection for most alumni to their alma mater. How much of that $1B would Penn State raise without their football team? Hard to say, but I'm sure it's in the 9 figure range.

What was this campaign geared toward? Were facility improvements a major factor?

Good point about this hit, but I believe that overall integrity and national respect would trump at a university of this caliber. We're not talking about KU here.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

What was priority #1 at this university? Time to recalibrate. If that means neutering the program for a significant number of years--very minimum of five--great. But casting out the golden cow should definitively be on the table.

Time for that institution to wake the **** up.

If priority #1 is on education, then you're not going to cripple the program that is bringing in a huge chunk of the dollars that help you provide that educational experience. The football program makes $50-70M in PROFIT a year, which gets pumped into funding the entire athletic program. Joe Pa helped influence an additional $100M-150M yearly to get pumped back into the University. Expecting Penn State to maintain even close to the same academic experience without football is simply unrealistic. Athletic departments are a key driver of applications, enrollment, and hugely influential in raising money.

Send a clear message that the NCAA takes this seriously. Punish through fines that will eventually total in the hundreds of millions. Severely punish those responsible. Then move on and demand that Penn State over-comply and force them to earn trust back. That is a much more realistic solution and keeps you from punishing those who had nothing to do with this mess. The Death Penalty isn't going to solve anything more than you could solve in a much less severe, but well structured punishment that can be enacted without nearly the same consequences that cripple the ability the original mission, which is to provide a quality education to those who can't necessarily afford a private school.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If priority #1 is on education, then you're not going to cripple the program that is bringing in a huge chunk of the dollars that help you provide that educational experience. The football program makes $50-70M in PROFIT a year, which gets pumped into funding the entire athletic program. Joe Pa helped influence an additional $100M-150M yearly to get pumped back into the University. Expecting Penn State to maintain even close to the same academic experience without football is simply unrealistic. Athletic departments are a key driver of applications, enrollment, and hugely influential in raising money.

Send a clear message that the NCAA takes this seriously. Punish through fines that will eventually total in the hundreds of millions. Severely punish those responsible. Then move on and demand that Penn State over-comply and force them to earn trust back. That is a much more realistic solution and keeps you from punishing those who had nothing to do with this mess. The Death Penalty isn't going to solve anything more than you could solve in a much less severe, but well structured punishment that can be enacted without nearly the same consequences that cripple the ability the original mission, which is to provide a quality education to those who can't necessarily afford a private school.

So the athletic department would have to operate at break even or at deficit levels? Don't care.

Again, Penn State's academic reputation places it on a different level from average State U; students are still going to come and donors are still going to contribute.

Football ran amok and we're going to level fines? Once again, Penn State would fail.

[cdcox]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

What was this campaign geared toward? Were facility improvements a major factor?

Good point about this hit, but I believe that overall integrity and national respect would trump at a university of this caliber. We're not talking about KU here.

Facility improvements (including athletics), scholarships, endowed professorships, etc.

Penn State football is huge. They have one of the 3 biggest stadiums in the nation in a very isolated part of the state. Two hour traffic jams in every direction on a Football Saturday.

As far as academics trumping athletics, they are just ordinary people. I almost got lynched for giving an exam the first day of buck season.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by cdcox

Facility improvements (including athletics), scholarships, endowed professorships, etc.

Penn State football is huge. They have one of the 3 biggest stadiums in the nation in a very isolated part of the state. Two hour traffic jams in every direction on a Football Saturday.

As far as academics trumping athletics, they are just ordinary people. I almost got lynched for giving an exam the first day of buck season.

Perhaps my perception of the graduate programs is skewing things here.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Football doesn't fund that institution. Not even close.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...se-money_n.htm

You think that $18M is going to cover the legal costs involved?

The legal expenses and all settlement punishments are a one-time expense. You're talking about changes that are going to lead to expenses that exist in perpetuity. $18M is a very big deal when it turns into $180M over ten years. Plus, you have the figure wrong. The football program makes about $50-70M a year in profit. And that doesn't even factor in the millions of dollars within their costs that are invested back into university-building activities.

And that $18M doesn't factor in the money raised because of alumni donors who feel pride in their football program. Joe Pa alone, it was reported, raised about $100-150M a year for football. It doesn't factor in the $11M extra cost to fund the athletic department that has over 1,000 student athletes, many of which rely on scholarships to get their education.

You are talking about an expense that over time is going to amount to billions of dollars in perpetuity.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by cdcox

Facility improvements (including athletics), scholarships, endowed professorships, etc.

Penn State football is huge. They have one of the 3 biggest stadiums in the nation in a very isolated part of the state. Two hour traffic jams in every direction on a Football Saturday.

As far as academics trumping athletics, they are just ordinary people. I almost got lynched for giving an exam the first day of buck season.

I went to a private university and people do the same shit. That's not exclusive to Penn State. The rankings and respect for their research is extremely strong for a public university. It's a very good academic institution, especially given it's size and generous in-state tuition rates.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by RaiderH8r

They systemically placed the reputation of the football program and the school ahead of the welfare and well being of children for 14 years. So...

This leads me to a question that I haven't seen or heard anywhere.

Would the reputation of the football program, and the school in general have been damaged had Paterno, Shultz, Curly, of Spainier, or any or all of them gone to the proper authorities and reported the crime?

If Paterno had reported it, would he not have been hailed as a beacon of high moral standard, who placed the safety and well being of children above the reputation of the program and school?

Would the parents of children wanting to attend be more, or less, inclined to steer them to another school if any of them had done the right thing?

It seems to me that parents would point to that/those individual/s as someone their children should strive to emulate.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Laz

If you murder someone, your company is going to turn you over to the police AND FIRE YOU.

Penn state didn't even fire Sandusky, they let him retire as a “valued member of the Penn State football legacy.” They then let Sandusky continue to work through Penn State with his foundation and continue to rape kids.

now the NCAA needs to do what it does and that is issues sanctions against the University itself for allowing such a situation to occur for such a long time.

EVERY KEY person of power at Penn State University contributed to a conspiracy to commit Child molestation.

The NCAA needs to set a real world standard for such a criminal lack of institutional control.

In your analogy, the company's operations manager, general manager, vice president and president were all aware of the crime, and chose not to fire the foreman who commited the crime, and also chose to actively cover-up the crime.

When the CEO and board of directors became aware of the crime, they hired an outside investigator to investigate the extent of the crime and the cover-up.

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And seriously, how much punishment do you need to create before you say that's enough?

I have already answered this a dozen times ... you just choose to ignore it because you really don't care.

"Death Penalty for the PSU football team for 2 or 3 years"

it's not a hard concept to understand, the power culture of the PSU football program led to the people in power ignoring the law, ignoring what was right,ignoring the molestation of children.

The culture of PSU football needs to be changed

Might does not make right ... Joe Paterno isn't a god. Football coaches/players can't just run around doing what they want without consequence.

Every school/coach/administrator/player in the NCAA needs to see that they aren't above the law or what is right.

The NCAA needs to set an example

To be honest, i don't give a shit if PSU falls on hard times because of the financial loss of football for a couple of years. Maybe the entire football machine will be that much the better for it going forward.


Money above children, money above what's right ... you, chiefzilla, should be ashamed of yourself for being such a pathetic and heartless human being.


i'm done