Maas on 610 - There's no leadership...bring Marty as consultant

[KCDC]

Originally Posted by Coogs

Really? What has he done drafting that sets him apart from the rest?

And that is a serious question or two.

His first year draft was horrid. After that, he did well. Look at the grades given him by the pundits after each draft. We all felt good seeing independent analysts giving us A- drafts while other clubs got Cs.

He avoided the Jimmy Clausen hype and took Berry and McCluster. The latter has his detractors but he is a perfect receiver for Captain Checkdown Cassel. Arenas was a good pick and would be even more valuable if they blitzed him more. He was a star blitzer in college. Getting Stanzi and K. Lewis in the 5th and Powe in the 6th were brilliant at the time.

Trading back to get Baldwin and then using the extra 3rd round pick to get Houston was superb. Bailey has yet to pan out but I think he will be a good one. Jeff Allen will prove to be a good pick. Stephenson might have been a reach but we needed all the help we could get on the line to help Cassel not panic as much and to prepare for B. Albert's potential departure.

All in all, a fine job of drafting the past three years. With 20-20 hindsight he could have done better, but anyone could.

He blew it in the Cassel trade now that we have the ability to see him for what he is. But, he could have traded a bunch of picks to move up to take Sanchez and crippled our team with a Cassel-quality QB and far fewer picks. He could have burned a first rounder on Jimmy Clausen, only to learn that Stanzi's fail is better.

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by KCDC

His first year draft was horrid. After that, he did well. Look at the grades given him by the pundits after each draft. We all felt good seeing independent analysts giving us A- drafts while other clubs got Cs.

He avoided the Jimmy Clausen hype and took Berry and McCluster. The latter has his detractors but he is a perfect receiver for Captain Checkdown Cassel. Arenas was a good pick and would be even more valuable if they blitzed him more. He was a star blitzer in college. Getting Stanzi and K. Lewis in the 5th and Powe in the 6th were brilliant at the time.

Trading back to get Baldwin and then using the extra 3rd round pick to get Houston was superb. Bailey has yet to pan out but I think he will be a good one. Jeff Allen will prove to be a good pick. Stephenson might have been a reach but we needed all the help we could get on the line to help Cassel not panic as much and to prepare for B. Albert's potential departure.

All in all, a fine job of drafting the past three years. With 20-20 hindsight he could have done better, but anyone could.

He blew it in the Cassel trade now that we have the ability to see him for what he is. But, he could have traded a bunch of picks to move up to take Sanchez and crippled our team with a Cassel-quality QB and far fewer picks. He could have burned a first rounder on Jimmy Clausen, only to learn that Stanzi's fail is better.

So you really have nothing then. There is not one thing here that any GM couldn't have done.

His best pick was Berry, and that one fell in his lap.

The Baldwin/Houston deal, Cleveland called and made an offer... their early 3rd for a trade back of a few spots in the late 1st...so he took it. Not a shrude move that any other GM couldn't have pulled off. And he got lucky that Houston fell due to issues.

[KCDC]

Originally Posted by Coogs

So you really have nothing then. There is not one thing here that any GM couldn't have done.

His best pick was Berry, and that one fell in his lap.

The Baldwin/Houston deal, Cleveland called and made an offer... their early 3rd for a trade back of a few spots in the late 1st...so he took it. Not a shrude move that any other GM couldn't have pulled off. And he got lucky that Houston fell due to issues.

Any GM can have good picks and trades, that is true. Pioli is no Superman to reinvent the draft. My point is that if you compared Pioli's drafts to those of other GMs in the same period, he would stack up favorably.

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by KCDC

Any GM can have good picks and trades, that is true. Pioli is no Superman to reinvent the draft. My point is that if you compared Pioli's drafts to those of other GMs in the same period, he would stack up favorably.

Jury is still out. None of his picks have really turned into anything special... yet! A couple do show promise, but from 4 years of draft picks you would hope more than a couple would stand out. Best players are still arguably holdovers from the previous regime.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Coogs

Jury is still out. None of his picks have really turned into anything special... yet! A couple do show promise, but from 4 years of draft picks you would hope more than a couple would stand out. Best players are still arguably holdovers from the previous regime.

The jury is NOT out.

McCluster, Arena and Moeaki were all bad selections. The 2009 draft was pathetic. 2011, outside of Houston and a rarely used Bailey has been just as bad as 2009. And 2012's draft has failed to yield any sort of game changer.

Pioli has sucked ass. You'd think there would be an abundance of talent on this roster, especially given that he's selected 3rd, 5th and 11th three drafts and in every round, but he hasn't done dick.

He blows.

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The jury is NOT out.

McCluster, Arena and Moeaki were all bad selections. The 2009 draft was pathetic. 2011, outside of Houston and a rarely used Bailey has been just as bad as 2009. And 2012's draft has failed to yield any sort of game changer.

Pioli has sucked ass. You'd think there would be an abundance of talent on this roster, especially given that he's selected 3rd, 5th and 11th three drafts and in every round, but he hasn't done dick.

He blows.

I was trying to be kind.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

... You'd think there would be an abundance of talent on this roster, especially given that he's selected 3rd, 5th and 11th three drafts and in every round ...

That's the key, right there.

We've had pretty high selections each year and we've picked like we're playing blind craps. When you look at the "draft" quality of our defensive front 7, we should be dominating ... not domino-ing.

FAX

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by FAX

That's the key, right there.

We've had pretty high selections each year and we've picked like we're playing blind craps. When you look at the "draft" quality of our defensive front 7, we should be dominating ... not domino-ing.

FAX

Had Pioli taken Washington and Joseph (let alone, offensive gems like Hernandez or Graham), this defense would be much further along. Instead, we're stuck with a tiny receiver that makes 3 yard catches and a returner.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by KCDC

Any GM can have good picks and trades, that is true. Pioli is no Superman to reinvent the draft. My point is that if you compared Pioli's drafts to those of other GMs in the same period, he would stack up favorably.

Bullshit.

The Chiefs passed up massive talent in favor of gadget players like McCluster and Arenas, oft-injured players like Moeaki (over Gronk, Graham and Hernandez) and his 2009 draft was a ****ing abortion.

You're clueless.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Bullshit.

The Chiefs passed up massive talent in favor of gadget players like McCluster and Arenas, oft-injured players like Moeaki (over Gronk, Graham and Hernandez) and his 2009 draft was a ****ing abortion.

You're clueless.

He has been an above average drafter.

His fatal flaw was that he didn't think he would need to draft a quarterback as part of that plan.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BossChief

He has been an above average drafter.

His fatal flaw was that he didn't think he would need to draft a quarterback as part of that plan.

No, he hasn't.

2009 was utterly worthless. In 2010, while he got lucky that Berry was sitting there, he passed on Daryl Washington, Sean Lee, Lindval Joseph, Jimmy Graham, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez and more.

2011 doesn't look much better. While Houston was a steal in the third, Baldwin's been invisible, Hudson's out with a broken leg and didn't look that good this year, Jalil Brown is a dope, so on and so forth.

He's been maybe average at best but IMO, far less than average. And who the **** pays a guy $5 million per to be average?

[KCDC]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

No, he hasn't.

2009 was utterly worthless. In 2010, while he got lucky that Berry was sitting there, he passed on Daryl Washington, Sean Lee, Lindval Joseph, Jimmy Graham, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez and more.

2011 doesn't look much better. While Houston was a steal in the third, Baldwin's been invisible, Hudson's out with a broken leg and didn't look that good this year, Jalil Brown is a dope, so on and so forth.

He's been maybe average at best but IMO, far less than average. And who the **** pays a guy $5 million per to be average?

We can always find better picks when we look back at a draft and have the benefit of hindsight.

I can remember all too well the conversations on this board pleading for the likes of Sanchez, Clausen, Aaron Curry, Jason Smith, Sergio Kindle, Eugene Monroe, etc. etc. They all were busts (except for Sanchez who will be a back up in a year or two and out of the league in five years, like Cassel). You may have supported some of those potential picks or similar busts if you are honest.

It is easy to seem like a genius when you can go back in time knowing what you do now and point out who was available at the pick. I'm trying to be fair, which is not a popular position to be in on CP, at times.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by KCDC

My point is that if you compared Pioli's drafts to those of other GMs in the same period, he would stack up favorably.

No...

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Coogs

So you really have nothing then. There is not one thing here that any GM couldn't have done.

His best pick was Berry, and that one fell in his lap.

The Baldwin/Houston deal, Cleveland called and made an offer... their early 3rd for a trade back of a few spots in the late 1st...so he took it. Not a shrude move that any other GM couldn't have pulled off. And he got lucky that Houston fell due to issues.

Well, you have to look at what he was given. This team had zero bench depth and over half of our starters aren't even in the league anymore. They were that bad. He took over that roster and actually rounded it out quite nicely, and he did it without spending very much money. You don't have to bring in a ton of superstars to build a good roster.

Again, he has built a mostly good team and sabotaged it with unbelievably arrogant decisions around the coaching and the quarterback. Behind a good coach and a good QB, this team is very good. Which is a lot more than you can say for the team we had in 2009.

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Well, you have to look at what he was given. This team had zero bench depth and over half of our starters aren't even in the league anymore. They were that bad. He took over that roster and actually rounded it out quite nicely, and he did it without spending very much money. You don't have to bring in a ton of superstars to build a good roster.

Again, he has built a mostly good team and sabotaged it with unbelievably arrogant decisions around the coaching and the quarterback. Behind a good coach and a good QB, this team is very good. Which is a lot more than you can say for the team we had in 2009.

You have noticed we are getting our asses handed to us in each of the 4 games this season. Down by 24, 32, 18 (Still not sure how we managed to beat the Saints), and 21. I'd like to think we have a good roster outside of Cassel... but to be honest I am not real sure.