Chiefs Reid Draft Record is Nothing to Get Excited About - Page 6

Shox · 01-04-2013, 10:20 PM

I recognize the Eagles have picked in the bottom third almost all the time, but if you look at this draft history there are really not very many standout names and few pro bowl players.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../phi/draft.htm

The first rounders are especially troubling. While several have been productive NFL players only one would really qualify as a stud. He loves to draft DT 4 in 12 years add in a couple of DE and 50% of the time the defensive front gets the first round pick.

2012 Fletcher Cox DT (TBD)
2011 Danny Watkins OL (TBD)
2010 Brandon Graham DE (TBD)
2009 Jeremy Maclin WR (???Maybe/Maybe not)
2008 no pick
2007 no pick
2006 Brodrick Bunkley DT (Hit)
2005 Mike Patterson DT (Hit)
2004 Shawn Andrews G (Hit)
2003 Jerome McDougle DE (Bust)
2002 Litto Sheppard DB (Hit)
2001 Freddie Mitchell WR (Bust)
2000 Cory Simon DT (Hit)
1999 McNabb (by far the cream of the crop)

Now I have to give Reid credit he seems to be able to get some big names in FA. I would say he overpays and many of the big name FA do not perform up to the level they should.

There is more to like than dislike with the Reid hire, but I remain very doubtful he will ever bring a SB championship to the Chiefs.

slimdagreat · 01-04-2013, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimdagreat

You only looked at the 1st round. Drafts aren't won in the first round.
Drafts are won when you get the following Pro Bowlers AFTER THE FIRST ROUND
Brian Westbrook (91st pick)
DeSean Jackson (49th pick)
Trent Cole (146th pick)
Derrick Burgess (63rd pick)
LeSean McCoy (53rd pick)
Michael Lewis (58th pick)

That's drafting well. Missing on 1st rounders isn't good but the keys to being a great drafting team are
-Nailing QB picks
-Finding gems in late rounds

and that's not including guys like Brent Celek (162th pick), Sheldon Brown (59th pick), Raheem Brock (238th pick), and Todd Herremans (126th who started at LG for 100 games for Philly) that didn't make a pro bowl but were still great late round finds

Shox · 01-04-2013, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slimdagreat

You only looked at the 1st round. Drafts aren't won in the first round.
Drafts are won when you get the following Pro Bowlers AFTER THE FIRST ROUND
Brian Westbrook (91st pick)
DeSean Jackson (49th pick)
Trent Cole (146th pick)
Derrick Burgess (63rd pick)
LeSean McCoy (53rd pick)
Michael Lewis (58th pick)

That's drafting well. Missing on 1st rounders isn't good but the keys to being a great drafting team are
-Nailing QB picks
-Finding gems in late rounds

So 8 pro-bowlers with McNabb and no HOF in 14 drafts is great drafting. No McNabb is not a HOF QB. I guess I have a higher standard.

Mother****erJones · 01-04-2013, 11:24 PM

Hugh Janus, change ur name to Hugh's Anus

**DeezNutz** · 01-04-2013, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shox

The question has nothing to do with my position that Reid's draft history has not been great overall.

Of course he hit with McNabb and it made a huge impact on the Eagles. I get it. He has an opportunity to do it in the coming draft for the Chiefs.

That has nothing to do with all of the remaining picks over 14 drafts which is below average in my opinion.

Fair enough. Then...by your own admission:

Reid has a single draft pick in 14 years (with 12 picks) that far exceeds anything the Pats have done.

Five others have been "hits."

In two years he didn't have a selection, and in two years he drafted "busts."

I'd say this is an outstanding draft record that few organizations would be able to match, given the overall value of McNabb, the high number of hits, and the low number of busts.

slimdagreat · 01-04-2013, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shox

So 8 pro-bowlers with McNabb and no HOF in 14 drafts is great drafting. No McNabb is not a HOF QB. I guess I have a higher standard.

It's not great, but it's not as terrible as you're making it out to be either.

Look at Bill Belichek's draft record and tell me his looks much better.

tk13 · 01-04-2013, 11:43 PM

I can get that the list may not look the most impressive on paper.

That said, the part that makes this tough to argue is he took a team made up mostly of Philly draft picks to a Super Bowl, and within 3 points of a win. He was not Dan Snyder. Most of that Super Bowl team was filled with Eagles guys. Obviously he made the splash with TO and Kearse. Only 6 of their 22 starters that year were drafted by someone else, and among those, starting DT Darwin Walker had literally played one NFL game before coming to Philly. Plus TO broke his leg for the playoffs and Greg Lewis stepped in for him.

A couple of those guys were drafted before Reid got there, but pretty much the entire offense outside of TO and Runyan were originally Eagles. Same with the defense aside from Kearse, Simoneau and Dhani Jones at LB. He took those guys to a Super Bowl.

BradBigglestein · 01-04-2013, 11:44 PM

Andy Reid's drafting definitely left a lot to be desired. Talent evaluation in my opinion is a big weakness. He is better at drafting offense than defense. He has a very good eye for QBs and RBs. He is pretty awful at drafting defense. I might rank that his #1 overall weakness as a coach. If not #1 then in his top 3.

But there are few perfect coaches out there. This is one flaw, he has a lot of strengths. I'm trying to be as honest as possible. Talent evaluation is definitely a concern. No question.

WildTurkey · 01-04-2013, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradBigglestein

Andy Reid's drafting definitely left a lot to be desired. Talent evaluation in my opinion is a big weakness. He is better at drafting offense than defense. He has a very good eye for QBs and RBs. He is pretty awful at drafting defense. I might rank that his #1 overall weakness as a coach. If not #1 then in his top 3.

But there are few perfect coaches out there. This is one flaw, he has a lot of strengths. I'm trying to be as honest as possible. Talent evaluation is definitely a concern. No question.

I think he understands this weakness. IMO it's why he's trying to bring Tom Dorsey from Green Bay into the fold

slimdagreat · 01-04-2013, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradBigglestein

Andy Reid's drafting definitely left a lot to be desired. Talent evaluation in my opinion is a big weakness. He is better at drafting offense than defense. He has a very good eye for QBs and RBs. He is pretty awful at drafting defense. I might rank that his #1 overall weakness as a coach. If not #1 then in his top 3.

But there are few perfect coaches out there. This is one flaw, he has a lot of strengths. I'm trying to be as honest as possible. Talent evaluation is definitely a concern. No question.

Reid has drafted 10 pro bowlers and 5 of them were on defense.

BradBigglestein · 01-04-2013, 11:53 PM

I don't know if Pro Bowls are the be all end all of evaluation, but if you want me to, I can name you all the draft picks that went horribly wrong on defense over the years. It is a big reason why the team had to resort to that ridiculous spending spree a couple years ago. So many defensive draft picks didn't work out and they needed to fill roster spots.

The best Eagles defensive players in Reid's tenure were Trotter and Dawkins. Both Ray Rhodes guys. Trent Cole was Reid's best defensive draft pick. A 5th rounder.

KChiefs1 · 01-04-2013, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brando

McNabb was on the NFL Network earlier stating that we should expect Reid to pick a big ugly at number 1. Expect him to pick up a veteran qb to groom a rook we pick in round 2 or 3.

1. Luke Joeckel
2. Tyler Bray

FloridaMan88 · 01-04-2013, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shox

Patriots:
Mankins, Wilfolk, Ty Warren, Merriweather, Mayo, Seymour.

These look a little better than Andy's group.

Merriweather was released 4 years after he was drafted.

Other than Mayo the rest of the guys you listed were drafted 2005 and earlier... not exactly recent or a sign of sustained draft success.

slimdagreat · 01-04-2013, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BradBigglestein

I don't know if Pro Bowls are the be all end all of evaluation, but if you want me to, I can name you all the draft picks that went horribly wrong on defense over the years. It is a big reason why the team had to resort to that ridiculous spending spree a couple years ago. So many defensive draft picks didn't work out and they needed to fill roster spots.

The best Eagles defensive players in Reid's tenure were Trotter and Dawkins. Both Ray Rhodes guys. Trent Cole was Reid's best defensive draft pick. A 5th rounder.

well what's the criteria then because he also picked 18 players that played in at least 100 games (indicating they were good enough to stick for several seasons) and 9 were on offense and 9 were on defense.

slimdagreat · 01-04-2013, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefs1

1. Luke Joeckel
2. Tyler Bray

This

Or Tyler Wilson

FloridaMan88 · 01-05-2013, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shox

So the Giants don't get cornerstone players in:
JPP, Aukumara (sp), Nicks, David Wilson,Kenny Phillips, Aaron Ross, Shockey, Will Allen

Shockey and Will Allen had relatively short careers in New York and bounced around the league after that.

01-04-2013, 10:20 PM
Shox Starter Join Date: Mar 2005 Casino cash: $10005765	Reid Draft Record is Nothing to Get Excited About I recognize the Eagles have picked in the bottom third almost all the time, but if you look at this draft history there are really not very many standout names and few pro bowl players. http://www.pro-football-reference.co.../phi/draft.htm The first rounders are especially troubling. While several have been productive NFL players only one would really qualify as a stud. He loves to draft DT 4 in 12 years add in a couple of DE and 50% of the time the defensive front gets the first round pick. 2012 Fletcher Cox DT (TBD) 2011 Danny Watkins OL (TBD) 2010 Brandon Graham DE (TBD) 2009 Jeremy Maclin WR (???Maybe/Maybe not) 2008 no pick 2007 no pick 2006 Brodrick Bunkley DT (Hit) 2005 Mike Patterson DT (Hit) 2004 Shawn Andrews G (Hit) 2003 Jerome McDougle DE (Bust) 2002 Litto Sheppard DB (Hit) 2001 Freddie Mitchell WR (Bust) 2000 Cory Simon DT (Hit) 1999 McNabb (by far the cream of the crop) Now I have to give Reid credit he seems to be able to get some big names in FA. I would say he overpays and many of the big name FA do not perform up to the level they should. There is more to like than dislike with the Reid hire, but I remain very doubtful he will ever bring a SB championship to the Chiefs.
Posts: 718

01-04-2013, 11:43 PM	#81
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $-1907500	I can get that the list may not look the most impressive on paper. That said, the part that makes this tough to argue is he took a team made up mostly of Philly draft picks to a Super Bowl, and within 3 points of a win. He was not Dan Snyder. Most of that Super Bowl team was filled with Eagles guys. Obviously he made the splash with TO and Kearse. Only 6 of their 22 starters that year were drafted by someone else, and among those, starting DT Darwin Walker had literally played one NFL game before coming to Philly. Plus TO broke his leg for the playoffs and Greg Lewis stepped in for him. A couple of those guys were drafted before Reid got there, but pretty much the entire offense outside of TO and Runyan were originally Eagles. Same with the defense aside from Kearse, Simoneau and Dhani Jones at LB. He took those guys to a Super Bowl.
Posts: 56,722

01-04-2013, 11:44 PM	#82
BradBigglestein Starter Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $9985280	Andy Reid's drafting definitely left a lot to be desired. Talent evaluation in my opinion is a big weakness. He is better at drafting offense than defense. He has a very good eye for QBs and RBs. He is pretty awful at drafting defense. I might rank that his #1 overall weakness as a coach. If not #1 then in his top 3. But there are few perfect coaches out there. This is one flaw, he has a lot of strengths. I'm trying to be as honest as possible. Talent evaluation is definitely a concern. No question. __________________ Eagles fan.
Posts: 184

01-04-2013, 11:53 PM	#85
BradBigglestein Starter Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $9985280	I don't know if Pro Bowls are the be all end all of evaluation, but if you want me to, I can name you all the draft picks that went horribly wrong on defense over the years. It is a big reason why the team had to resort to that ridiculous spending spree a couple years ago. So many defensive draft picks didn't work out and they needed to fill roster spots. The best Eagles defensive players in Reid's tenure were Trotter and Dawkins. Both Ray Rhodes guys. Trent Cole was Reid's best defensive draft pick. A 5th rounder. __________________ Eagles fan.
Posts: 184