Football Peter King: You have to go back to 1997 to find a draft like this one - Page 13

Deberg_1990 · 02-19-2013, 07:53 AM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl.../?sct=uk_wr_a1

You'd probably have to go back to 1997 to find a draft like this one. That's the year Peyton Manning eschewed the prospect of going to the Jets first overall to play for Bill Parcells and returned for his senior year at Tennessee. One quarterback (shaky Jim Druckenmiller, 26th) picked in round one. Two backs (Warrick Dunn 12th and Antowain Smith 23rd) in round one, and four receivers in the first: Ike Hilliard seventh, Yatil Green 15th, Reidel Anthony 16th and Rae Carruth 27th. Yikes! What a horrible draft for point-producers. One star, Dunn, out of seven first-rounders.

That could repeat this year. It's likely Alabama's Eddie Lacy will be the only running back taken in round one. Tennessee's Cordarrelle Patterson leads the muddled pack at wide receiver, but how sure can you really be of junior-college transfers who play one year of major-college football, which is Patterson's profile?

The quarterbacks are a total mish-mosh at this point. One GM interested in acquiring a quarterback this offseason told me over the weekend, "I expect more attention on the quarterbacks throwing this year than on any other single thing at the Combine.'' Some think Geno Smith of West Virginia will go first overall to quarterback-needy Kansas City; one personnel man who studied all the top quarterbacks for a team in need of one last fall told me, "There's not one quarterback, including Smith, I would take in the first round."

Two points about that. If you need a quarterback, you can talk brave in February, but when reality sets in around draft day, and you haven't picked up a quarterback in free agency, all of a sudden the zits on Smith, Matt Barkley and other others don't seem as bad. And we're nine and a half weeks from round one. There's no way that Andy Reid and John Dorsey, the coach and GM for Kansas City, know what they're doing now. They need time to investigate and to watch tape on the eight or 10 quarterbacks.

But in some ways, 2013 should be a catchup year for the other positions. Opening day 2013 could feature 12 starting quarterbacks drafted in 2011 and '12; that's far, far above the norm in a game that values veteran arms at the position.

Now for a couple of notes about players at the Combine.

Alec Ogletree. The underclass inside linebacker from Georgia would be a clear top-10 pick with a clean resume. But he was suspended the first four games of last season for failing an offseason drug test, and then came the news Saturday night, via ProFootballTalk.com, that Ogletree recently was pinched for driving while intoxicated.

Ogletree and agent Pat Dye were smart to come out and beat the police blotter to the punch. As for the damage done by the arrest, Ogletree, who is a speed demon for an inside player, the kind of player who, if right, would be a perfect fit as a rare three-down inside linebacker for any team, has to convince teams they shouldn't be worried about a player who has tested positive, been suspended, and gotten a DWI in the span of about nine months.

Some GM is going to stake his reputation on Ogletree in the first round, most likely. Which GM? It would have to be a secure one. Green Bay's Ted Thompson or de facto GM Bill Belichick of the Patriots or Baltimore's Ozzie Newsome, all down near the bottom of the round.

Manti Te'o. The Notre Dame linebacker has spent a lot of time practicing football and practicing what he's going to say to teams. His last game, against Alabama, was a nightmare (he was awful, and overpowered), and then the whole fake girlfriend story came up, making him a national story and, in some quarters, a national joke. It won't matter much how he works out in Indianapolis. What will matter are the 15-minute interviews he'll have in formal evening sessions with teams, and in less formal settings, seeing coaches and personnel people at the stadium and around his hotel.

No men have more on the line, off the field, at the Scouting Combine than Ogletree and Te'o.

Finally, three players I'll be watching at the Combine, three with question marks and debatable upsides:

1. Quarterback Sean Renfree, Duke. No one's talking about him, but he completed 70 percent of his throws in six of 12 games for David Cutcliffe last fall, was a comeback specialist, and has the pedigree in a good pro-style offense to play early. Could he be more than a late-round flyer, this year's Ryan Lindley? We'll see.

2. Cornerback Xavier Rhodes, Florida State. A 6-2 cornerback in a league demanding cover guys who can play on islands more and more? Scouts want to see if Rhodes, who is a heady player with good bump skills at the line of scrimmage, has the speed to stay with fast wideouts. If so, he'll be a top-half-of-the-first-round player.

3. Running back Marcus Lattimore, South Carolina. After his devastating dislocated knee and torn knee ligaments in October, Lattimore, considered a certain first-rounder before the injury, is still in recovery mode. His surgeon, James Andrews, told Lattimore recently that he's going to shock the world. "I hear he's working out great,'' said Mayock. Lattimore believes he'll be healthy enough to start the 2013 NFL season. Is he's a fourth-round minefield pick? Or might some team desperate for a back go for him a round earlier -- or even late in the second round?

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...#ixzz2LLwcLLId

Deberg_1990 · 02-19-2013, 04:56 PM

TrINT Green was flawless now?

**HemiEd** · 02-19-2013, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Well it's important to separate TrINT from Trent. He got himself so far behind the 8-ball with the fanbase here after that first season that yeah, it's easy to remember those balls got on top of and hammered into the turf.

But when he was at his apex, those 4 years from 2002-2005, man he was precise. In those 4 years he averaged damn near 8 yds/attempt. And that was when only guys like Manning and Brady were putting up numbers like that. To put it into perspective, even with weapons like Boldin and Torrey Smith, Flacco's never averaged better than 7.4 YPA and on his career is averaging 7.1. That's even with the fact that he's a very good downfield passer.

Yeah, the system helped, but even the YAC yards were a result of the fact that he was so good at hitting guys in stride and frankly he just didn't miss very often.

For a guy with a sub-standard arm to be able to hit at 8 yds/attempt means that he was firing a hell of a grouping. He was putting it in the right spot almost every time.

History, if anything, has been extremely unkind to Trent Green. We don't realize how good we had it with that guy over those 4 seasons and I think that is almost exclusively because of how quickly people soured on him in 2001.

Good points, again. I for one didn't sour on him 2001 though, as he was coming back from a horrible injury.

I just never really felt like he had the tools to carry the team. I felt he was "good enough" to be competitive. Once again, a recycled Qb, that was pretty darn good.

I am sick and tired of settling for that, after what seems like an eternal line of them. I want this team to go "all in" with a pick of their own and develop him. No more Alex Smiths, Trent Greens, Dave Kreigs, Bonos, Grbacs, Huards, Cassels, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

I am so sick of it, that if they marched Stanzi out there and went 0-16, it would be refreshing to me.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-19-2013, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Flawless, really?

Yeah, absolutely. He was pretty amazing under Norv and again under Martz. He was a master of the Coryell offense and had it not been for the knee injury that plagued him for two seasons, he most likely wouldn't have been a Chief.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Don't you think some of the Flacco success is due to him maturing in the NFL, after 4 years?

Actually, Flacco just completed his fifth year in NFL. But the reason I disagree is because under Cameron, he never seemed comfortable. The Ravens had done an excellent job of providing a very good offensive line, a excellent running back in Ray Rice and very good perimeter players in Boldin, Smith, Pitta and Dickson. But, he continued to struggle and put his game together until after Cameron was fired.

At that point, Caldwell simplified the offense, installed plays from his days as Peyton Manning's head coach and OC and called more long balls to Smith and Boldin. Instead of the quick timing plays, shifts and verbage, Caldwell used Flacco's best attribute, his big arm, and the Ravens tore it up in December, January and of course, February.

**HemiEd** · 02-19-2013, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

TrINT Green was flawless now?

Very telling on just how pathetic the QB play has been in KC for the last 7 years.

Gimme good, good was good enough, I am tired of waiting on great!/CP

O.city · 02-19-2013, 05:01 PM

Kinda shows a few things. Maybe Flacco isn't geared for that and Cameron is an idiot.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-19-2013, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I am sick and tired of settling for that, after what seems like an eternal line of them. I want this team to go "all in" with a pick of their own and develop him. No more Alex Smiths, Trent Greens, Dave Kreigs, Bonos, Grbacs, Huards, Cassels, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

See, that stuff doesn't bother me. If the Chiefs win and win in the playoffs, I couldn't care less how the QB was acquired.

Now, if the Chiefs need a QB and deliberately pass on highly rated guy, that's a different story. But if Matt Flynn or Nick Foles or Alex Smith won a Super Bowl as a Chiefs, I'd be thrilled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I am so sick of it, that if they marched Stanzi out there and went 0-16, it would be refreshing to me.

You, my friend, would likely be on the only person happy in that scenario.

**DaneMcCloud** · 02-19-2013, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

TrINT Green was flawless now?

I said he ran the offense flawlessly, you illiterate dumb****.

The guy was still recovering from knee surgery in 2001 and couldn't properly plant his leg. That was discussed ad nauseam around here back in the day and is certainly nothing new.

JFC.

htismaqe · 02-19-2013, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Yeah, absolutely. He was pretty amazing under Norv and again under Martz. He was a master of the Coryell offense and had it not been for the knee injury that plagued him for two seasons, he most likely wouldn't have been a Chief.

I'll say it again.

Trent Green had a 5 or 6 game stretch with the Rams in 2000 that was one of the best I'VE EVER SEEN.

I'm gonna go find those stats.

Hammock Parties · 02-19-2013, 05:06 PM

He had like 2000 yards and 16 TD, high 60s completion percentage.

He was quite effective.

htismaqe · 02-19-2013, 05:08 PM

5 starts, over 65% completion, almost 8.5 ypa (!!!), 15 TD, 5 INT

Deberg_1990 · 02-19-2013, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Very telling on just how pathetic the QB play has been in KC for the last 7 years.

Gimme good, good was good enough, I am tired of waiting on great!/CP

He was an OK, solid QB. The best QB for the Chiefs since Montana nearly 20 seasons ago. Ill just leave it at that.

DJ's left nut · 02-19-2013, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Very telling on just how pathetic the QB play has been in KC for the last 7 years.

Gimme good, good was good enough, I am tired of waiting on great!/CP

And that's where we disagree.

For 4 years, Trent Green was great. Granted, I'd love to get 10 years of that, but to just expect it and say anything less is crap is going to make you a miserable sports fan.

I'd trade this year's entire draft for 10 years like the 4 we got from Trent Green. And if you really look at what Green was doing in relation to his peers over that time, you'd be insane not to do the same.

So if that's the case, isn't poo-pooing Trent Green's performance here pretty damn ignorant?

**HemiEd** · 02-19-2013, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

See, that stuff doesn't bother me. If the Chiefs win and win in the playoffs, I couldn't care less how the QB was acquired.

Now, if the Chiefs need a QB and deliberately pass on highly rated guy, that's a different story. But if Matt Flynn or Nick Foles or Alex Smith won a Super Bowl as a Chiefs, I'd be thrilled.

You, my friend, would likely be on the only person happy in that scenario.

Well for the last three years we have seen HCs marching out crap behind center, trying to eeek out a win to save their ****ing job. Not giving Stanzi a legit shot.

Yeah, I am beyond the recycled QB give a **** meter, seriously. Nobody was more shocked than I when the Chiefs didn't end up with Peyton Manning. The first time I ever got really upset with the Chiefs was the Montana trade, and it has been going on to varying degrees ever since.

I will probably take a few years off if they don't draft one this year.

O.city · 02-19-2013, 05:09 PM

Trent was a top 3 or 4 QB in the league for a few of those years. We had an elite offense, that with somewhat competent FO and coaching staff should have had a defense opposite it that had some semblance of well, a defense.

DJ's left nut · 02-19-2013, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

He was an OK, solid QB. The best QB for the Chiefs since Montana nearly 20 seasons ago. Ill just leave it at that.

He was better over that period than Big Ben, Eli Manning and Joe Flacco have been over their careers. That's only 6 SBs between them.

But you're right, we should totally shit on that guy. If all we get from our next quarterback is another Trent Green, we've really busted.

02-19-2013, 07:53 AM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $94454	Peter King: You have to go back to 1997 to find a draft like this one http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl.../?sct=uk_wr_a1 You'd probably have to go back to 1997 to find a draft like this one. That's the year Peyton Manning eschewed the prospect of going to the Jets first overall to play for Bill Parcells and returned for his senior year at Tennessee. One quarterback (shaky Jim Druckenmiller, 26th) picked in round one. Two backs (Warrick Dunn 12th and Antowain Smith 23rd) in round one, and four receivers in the first: Ike Hilliard seventh, Yatil Green 15th, Reidel Anthony 16th and Rae Carruth 27th. Yikes! What a horrible draft for point-producers. One star, Dunn, out of seven first-rounders. That could repeat this year. It's likely Alabama's Eddie Lacy will be the only running back taken in round one. Tennessee's Cordarrelle Patterson leads the muddled pack at wide receiver, but how sure can you really be of junior-college transfers who play one year of major-college football, which is Patterson's profile? The quarterbacks are a total mish-mosh at this point. One GM interested in acquiring a quarterback this offseason told me over the weekend, "I expect more attention on the quarterbacks throwing this year than on any other single thing at the Combine.'' Some think Geno Smith of West Virginia will go first overall to quarterback-needy Kansas City; one personnel man who studied all the top quarterbacks for a team in need of one last fall told me, "There's not one quarterback, including Smith, I would take in the first round." Two points about that. If you need a quarterback, you can talk brave in February, but when reality sets in around draft day, and you haven't picked up a quarterback in free agency, all of a sudden the zits on Smith, Matt Barkley and other others don't seem as bad. And we're nine and a half weeks from round one. There's no way that Andy Reid and John Dorsey, the coach and GM for Kansas City, know what they're doing now. They need time to investigate and to watch tape on the eight or 10 quarterbacks. But in some ways, 2013 should be a catchup year for the other positions. Opening day 2013 could feature 12 starting quarterbacks drafted in 2011 and '12; that's far, far above the norm in a game that values veteran arms at the position. Now for a couple of notes about players at the Combine. Alec Ogletree. The underclass inside linebacker from Georgia would be a clear top-10 pick with a clean resume. But he was suspended the first four games of last season for failing an offseason drug test, and then came the news Saturday night, via ProFootballTalk.com, that Ogletree recently was pinched for driving while intoxicated. Ogletree and agent Pat Dye were smart to come out and beat the police blotter to the punch. As for the damage done by the arrest, Ogletree, who is a speed demon for an inside player, the kind of player who, if right, would be a perfect fit as a rare three-down inside linebacker for any team, has to convince teams they shouldn't be worried about a player who has tested positive, been suspended, and gotten a DWI in the span of about nine months. Some GM is going to stake his reputation on Ogletree in the first round, most likely. Which GM? It would have to be a secure one. Green Bay's Ted Thompson or de facto GM Bill Belichick of the Patriots or Baltimore's Ozzie Newsome, all down near the bottom of the round. Manti Te'o. The Notre Dame linebacker has spent a lot of time practicing football and practicing what he's going to say to teams. His last game, against Alabama, was a nightmare (he was awful, and overpowered), and then the whole fake girlfriend story came up, making him a national story and, in some quarters, a national joke. It won't matter much how he works out in Indianapolis. What will matter are the 15-minute interviews he'll have in formal evening sessions with teams, and in less formal settings, seeing coaches and personnel people at the stadium and around his hotel. No men have more on the line, off the field, at the Scouting Combine than Ogletree and Te'o. Finally, three players I'll be watching at the Combine, three with question marks and debatable upsides: 1. Quarterback Sean Renfree, Duke. No one's talking about him, but he completed 70 percent of his throws in six of 12 games for David Cutcliffe last fall, was a comeback specialist, and has the pedigree in a good pro-style offense to play early. Could he be more than a late-round flyer, this year's Ryan Lindley? We'll see. 2. Cornerback Xavier Rhodes, Florida State. A 6-2 cornerback in a league demanding cover guys who can play on islands more and more? Scouts want to see if Rhodes, who is a heady player with good bump skills at the line of scrimmage, has the speed to stay with fast wideouts. If so, he'll be a top-half-of-the-first-round player. 3. Running back Marcus Lattimore, South Carolina. After his devastating dislocated knee and torn knee ligaments in October, Lattimore, considered a certain first-rounder before the injury, is still in recovery mode. His surgeon, James Andrews, told Lattimore recently that he's going to shock the world. "I hear he's working out great,'' said Mayock. Lattimore believes he'll be healthy enough to start the 2013 NFL season. Is he's a fourth-round minefield pick? Or might some team desperate for a back go for him a round earlier -- or even late in the second round? Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...#ixzz2LLwcLLId
Posts: 68,678

02-19-2013, 04:56 PM	#181
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $94454	TrINT Green was flawless now? __________________ Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning: Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down. One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
Posts: 68,678

02-19-2013, 05:01 PM	#185
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-735936	Kinda shows a few things. Maybe Flacco isn't geared for that and Cameron is an idiot.
Posts: 84,240

02-19-2013, 05:06 PM	#189
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $790478	He had like 2000 yards and 16 TD, high 60s completion percentage. He was quite effective. __________________ Chiefs game films
Posts: 297,459

02-19-2013, 05:08 PM	#190
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $8099900	5 starts, over 65% completion, almost 8.5 ypa (!!!), 15 TD, 5 INT
Posts: 104,421

02-19-2013, 05:09 PM	#194
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-735936	Trent was a top 3 or 4 QB in the league for a few of those years. We had an elite offense, that with somewhat competent FO and coaching staff should have had a defense opposite it that had some semblance of well, a defense.
Posts: 84,240