Chiefs Joeckel vs. Alberts - Page 13

**FRCDFED** · 02-22-2013, 10:32 PM

I know I probably misspelled his name but I want to get everyones true opinion of Joeckel. We want to sign Alberts but I believe most on here are in agreement that he isn't worth top 5 money. At the moment we don't know his demands.

Ever since Alberts was drafted we have debated on here whether or not he should be playing T or G. Mostly because he was a G in college. Most on here would agree that he is a pretty solid LT just not elite.

With that being said.........how does everyone really feel about potentially having a prototipical LT in Joeckel? Put the whole QB situation aside for a minute and just think of the OL.

If we came out of the draft with Joeckel and potentially Barkley if we traded back up or he fell for some reason then wouldn't that be a great start?

Ace Gunner · 02-23-2013, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

Joeckeloff can be the next Willie Roaf I don't give a **** won't matter with out a franchise QB that we will miss out on. **** Joeckel defeats any purpose of having the number 1 pick in the draft.

ya, so your reading skills suck. read the first part of my OP. the part that states "I would like to see them re -- up Albert at LT and let this existing OL come in and play a season. This would free up that #1 pick which should be used on the QB regardless what a reach it will be, this franchise needs to get in the QB sweepstakes for once in its damn life and stay in it because that is key in today's goodell happy NFL."

and there is nobody but chiefs fans claiming there is a "franchise QB" in this draft.

milkman · 02-23-2013, 08:35 AM

You don't give up only one sack in the scenario you describe when you have. A QB that holds the baal too long like Cassel does.

patteeu · 02-23-2013, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

First, what no one even begins note, is that last season was only Albert's 4th season in his playing career at the. LT position.

He had to learn on the job essentially, and has just started to touch his potential.
He still has more upside, and hasn't even come close to reaching his cceiling, and he is already a top LT.

If you want to argue that Joekel. Has more potential, I would disagree with argument.

Second, to patteau's idea, it simply is not a sound financial decision.

Forget the fact that you'd be paying LT money to guard.

With your plan, with the rookie slotting, you would be committing 15 to 16 mil a year to just 2 line positions.

Not a sound Llotment of.

You'd have 3 rookie contracts on the OL and one pretty reasonable FA contract at RT. It wouldn't be unsound if you look at the big picture.

Lightrise · 02-23-2013, 08:45 AM

I've tried to think this through from all perspectives and I understand the best available argument. But this decision is really about much more than the best available. It is about QB, it is about generating fan excitement, it is about restoring attitude in the locker room. It is about breaking away from the sounds of silence culture with the media that prevailed before. It's about putting KC on the map with respect to our QB. Our situation is just not like a typical year. Proven coaches to the degree Reid is are not easy to come by in small market cities. There's a grace about Reid that seems to fit here, and yet the likely face of the team will ultimately be tougher than what we've come to see in recent years. I'm looking at all the peripheral issues and I just don't see how you marginalize them with a tackle. However, there is ONE thing that I'm having trouble ignoring. That's what Kurt Warner said at the combine, interested in Manuel. Why? He said because he's a winner. This is exactly what Mayock said about Wilson last year, that he will make his splash on Sunday's and that is exactly what he did.

Bottom line - steal the spotlight from everybody and take the quarterback, get first team media here for games and promote the hell out of a new/old rivalry with Denver.

...I could change my mind by 2 p.m. LOL

Ace Gunner · 02-23-2013, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Brandon Albert gave up one sack in pass pro last year. He is an excellent pass protector and grades out as such. The CHiefs' average rush when running left also speaks well for Albert's abilities as a run blocker. Joeckel is PROJECTED to be an excellent NFL pass pro guy, but he also had problems with the bull rush at times in college and was exposed a few times just this season by guys with legit NFL strength/speed combos.

Joeckel is NOT a flawless prospect. Just like everyone else in this draft.

oh, well shit -- I guess I fail to see Brandon Albert IS FLAWLESS!!!!!

ridicule has taken over. I'm out.

milkman · 02-23-2013, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu

You'd have 3 rookie contracts on the OL and one pretty reasonable FA contract at RT. It wouldn't be unsound if you look at the big picture.

You will be paying Albert between 10 and 11 mil.
With rookie slotting, you will be paying Joekel about 5 mil.

That's 15 to 16 mil for 2 positions on the line.

Not sure what Winston gets paid, but it has to be at least 3.

That brings you number to 18-19.

That isn't simply poor cap managment.
That's downright stupid.

**FRCDFED** · 02-23-2013, 09:02 AM

Its hard to imagine coming out of this draft without a QB. It just remains to be seen who that will be. Irregardless of who we believe is the best the decision will be made by those who actually sit down and talk with that player to assess their mental makeup. In the end that player may be available in a later round. We just don't know.

This is about the effect that Albert actually has on both the draft and the finances since he is a FA. His play has been solid but one would think he is trying to get A huge payday and who knows if Dorsey will let him walk and try to replace him through FA or the draft.

Dorsey has said that he will take the BPA. He hasn't backed off of that stance. It may be a QB in the end but at this point the experts are saying that OL fall into that category. So whether we like it or not it is possible that we take an OL. Not necessarily Joeckel but at some point pick up a replacement for Albert. If so, would we really see that much of a decline in the OL. Just because we drafted him does he deserve top LT money?

-King- · 02-23-2013, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRCDFED

Dorsey has said that he will take the BPA. He hasn't backed off of that stance.

And you believe him huh?

**FRCDFED** · 02-23-2013, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

You will be paying Albert between 10 and 11 mil.
With rookie slotting, you will be paying Joekel about 5 mil.

That's 15 to 16 mil for 2 positions on the line.

Not sure what Winston gets paid, but it has to be at least 3.

That brings you number to 18-19.

That isn't simply poor cap managment.
That's downright stupid.

. Agreed. Too much to tie up those to positions with minimal return. Now consider the effectiveness of the OL by letting Albert walk and just drafting a C in the third. Then using the first and second round picks on playmakers.

**FRCDFED** · 02-23-2013, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

And you believe him huh?

. It doesn't matter if I believe because no matter who they draft they are going to say it was the BPA on their board.

**MahiMike** · 02-23-2013, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Funny that you spelled Joeckel right....but why do some of you add an s to Albert?

Fat Alberts.

kcbubb · 02-23-2013, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief

Here's the show stopper to this conversation and I'm gonna keep bringing it up till this topic dies a gruesome death...

Lets say Joeckel is a guy that just finished his rookie season and had a good year, and isn't just a guy coming out of college?

Would you be willing to trade Brandon Albert AND the first overall pick for Luke Joeckel?

If you answer yes, please find a tall building ad place a thumbtack at the base of it and then climb to the top.

Once there, try to imagine where the thumb tack is and jump, with the intent of hitting that thumbtack with your nose.

Good luck.

I think you are missing the point of a free agent. If we don't resign Albert, it is the same situation as not signing any other free agent. It would be like giving up the 1st pick and Albert. We can sign any free agent we choose.

**Easy 6** · 02-23-2013, 09:42 AM

I knew i shouldnt have clicked on this dumb thread.

jspchief · 02-23-2013, 09:45 AM

Didn't read the entire thread, but here's why Joeckel is a bad idea:

1. It's spending the #1 overall to save money instead of improve the team. Most likely Joeckel will be a slight upgrade at LT at best. So we are letting a good LT go so we can sign a cheaper LT that might be better. I can't imagine a worse way to use the pick.

2. If it's your claim that we keep Albert, and slide him to Guard therefore improving the guard spot, then it's using a #1 overall on a guard, which is also a terrible idea and something no team has ever done in the history of the nfl.

htismaqe · 02-23-2013, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz_TinBalls

and there is nobody but chiefs fans claiming there is a "franchise QB" in this draft.

Absolutely false.

I participate in a couple of team-agnostic draftnik board and this is absolutely false.

In fact, a lot of those people think Chiefs fans are stupid.

02-22-2013, 10:32 PM
FRCDFED Line'em up Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: somewhere out there Casino cash: $8966297	Joeckel vs. Alberts I know I probably misspelled his name but I want to get everyones true opinion of Joeckel. We want to sign Alberts but I believe most on here are in agreement that he isn't worth top 5 money. At the moment we don't know his demands. Ever since Alberts was drafted we have debated on here whether or not he should be playing T or G. Mostly because he was a G in college. Most on here would agree that he is a pretty solid LT just not elite. With that being said.........how does everyone really feel about potentially having a prototipical LT in Joeckel? Put the whole QB situation aside for a minute and just think of the OL. If we came out of the draft with Joeckel and potentially Barkley if we traded back up or he fell for some reason then wouldn't that be a great start?
Posts: 3,200

02-23-2013, 08:35 AM	#182
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	You don't give up only one sack in the scenario you describe when you have. A QB that holds the baal too long like Cassel does. __________________
Posts: 70,769

02-23-2013, 08:45 AM	#184
Lightrise Starter Join Date: Dec 2011 Casino cash: $10005085	I've tried to think this through from all perspectives and I understand the best available argument. But this decision is really about much more than the best available. It is about QB, it is about generating fan excitement, it is about restoring attitude in the locker room. It is about breaking away from the sounds of silence culture with the media that prevailed before. It's about putting KC on the map with respect to our QB. Our situation is just not like a typical year. Proven coaches to the degree Reid is are not easy to come by in small market cities. There's a grace about Reid that seems to fit here, and yet the likely face of the team will ultimately be tougher than what we've come to see in recent years. I'm looking at all the peripheral issues and I just don't see how you marginalize them with a tackle. However, there is ONE thing that I'm having trouble ignoring. That's what Kurt Warner said at the combine, interested in Manuel. Why? He said because he's a winner. This is exactly what Mayock said about Wilson last year, that he will make his splash on Sunday's and that is exactly what he did. Bottom line - steal the spotlight from everybody and take the quarterback, get first team media here for games and promote the hell out of a new/old rivalry with Denver. ...I could change my mind by 2 p.m. LOL
Posts: 774

02-23-2013, 09:02 AM	#187
FRCDFED Line'em up Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: somewhere out there Casino cash: $8966297	Its hard to imagine coming out of this draft without a QB. It just remains to be seen who that will be. Irregardless of who we believe is the best the decision will be made by those who actually sit down and talk with that player to assess their mental makeup. In the end that player may be available in a later round. We just don't know. This is about the effect that Albert actually has on both the draft and the finances since he is a FA. His play has been solid but one would think he is trying to get A huge payday and who knows if Dorsey will let him walk and try to replace him through FA or the draft. Dorsey has said that he will take the BPA. He hasn't backed off of that stance. It may be a QB in the end but at this point the experts are saying that OL fall into that category. So whether we like it or not it is possible that we take an OL. Not necessarily Joeckel but at some point pick up a replacement for Albert. If so, would we really see that much of a decline in the OL. Just because we drafted him does he deserve top LT money?
Posts: 3,200

02-23-2013, 09:42 AM	#193
Easy 6 pie is never free Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: the drivers seat Casino cash: $-222225	I knew i shouldnt have clicked on this dumb thread.
Posts: 98,536

02-23-2013, 09:45 AM	#194
jspchief BAMF Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Your Face Casino cash: $9998710	Didn't read the entire thread, but here's why Joeckel is a bad idea: 1. It's spending the #1 overall to save money instead of improve the team. Most likely Joeckel will be a slight upgrade at LT at best. So we are letting a good LT go so we can sign a cheaper LT that might be better. I can't imagine a worse way to use the pick. 2. If it's your claim that we keep Albert, and slide him to Guard therefore improving the guard spot, then it's using a #1 overall on a guard, which is also a terrible idea and something no team has ever done in the history of the nfl. __________________ Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all.
Posts: 27,207