Murder or Castle Doctrine?

[Earthling]

There has to be a joke somewhere in this about a guy taking a leak at a bar...

Can the owner fence off the sandbar? Assuming property extends halfway across the water...

[Ming the Merciless]

Originally Posted by Earthling

Can the owner fence off the sandbar? Assuming property extends halfway across the water...

I doubt it, even if the bolded part were true...

but the bolded part may not be true ( I personally don't think it is true....but it definitely a gray area fraught with legal problems)

[Radar Chief]

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

I doubt it, even if the bolded part were true...

but the bolded part may not be true ( I personally don't think it is true....but it definitely a gray area fraught with legal problems)

Don't know about MO but it is most definitely true in Kansas, been through this argument with law enforcement officers.
In fact if the land owner owns the property on both sides of the river that section of the river belongs to them.

[Ming the Merciless]

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

Don't know about MO but it is most definitely true in Kansas, been through this argument with law enforcement officers.
In fact if the land owner owns the property on both sides of the river that section of the river belongs to them.

http://www.nationalrivers.org/PDF/RiverLawHandout.pdf

Federal law would probably bar anyone from fencing off or blocking the gravel bars even if an owner owned BOTH sides of the river. No matter what state.

As long as there is ankle deep water....there is probably an easement.



Not really an area I have any experience with though....

[Radar Chief]

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

http://www.nationalrivers.org/PDF/RiverLawHandout.pdf

Federal law would probably bar anyone from fencing off or blocking the gravel bars even if an owner owned BOTH sides of the river. No matter what state.

As long as there is ankle deep water....there is probably an easement.



Not really an area I have any experience with though....

Ah, yes, the fencing off. I was talking strictly about property.
I imagine Fish and Game Dept. would have something to say about modifying the river bed so you’re probably right.

[Ming the Merciless]

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

Ah, yes, the fencing off. I was talking strictly about property.
I imagine Fish and Game Dept. would have something to say about modifying the river bed so you’re probably right.

The property issue is actually interesting too...

Here's my (very basic) take on it...

You would be better off NOT owning to the middle of the river...for it doesnt do you any good other than placing you at a greater risk of liability and need of insurance.

You cant build or control anything in the middle of the river anyway, because of the easement laws, so "owning" to the middle of the river is basically meaningless......Unless I am not thinking of something...like maybe if the river dries up? I dunno....but just looking at the river itself, theres almost no reason to 'want' to be the owner of the middle of the river in my mind.

I know this is a total tangent, but my mind wanders....

LOL

[Radar Chief]

Originally Posted by Pawnmower

The property issue is actually interesting too...

Here's my (very basic) take on it...

You would be better off NOT owning to the middle of the river...for it doesnt do you any good other than placing you at a greater risk of liability and need of insurance.

You cant build or control anything in the middle of the river anyway, because of the easement laws, so "owning" to the middle of the river is basically meaningless......Unless I am not thinking of something...like maybe if the river dries up? I dunno....but just looking at the river itself, theres almost no reason to 'want' to be the owner of the middle of the river in my mind.

I know this is a total tangent, but my mind wanders....

LOL

Oh I agree. In my experience it’s just an excuse for grouchy old assholes to act like an asshole, which I assume gives them some weird pleasure.

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

Don't know about MO but it is most definitely true in Kansas, been through this argument with law enforcement officers.
In fact if the land owner owns the property on both sides of the river that section of the river belongs to them.

Yeah, but does that mean there is right to exclude all use of the water flowing through? I don't think so. I can't recall the term, but it is similar to an easement, where the pubic can't be excluded from utilizing the water flowing through.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Yeah, but does that mean there is right to exclude all use of the water flowing through? I don't think so. I can't recall the term, but it is similar to an easement, where the pubic can't be excluded from utilizing the water flowing through.

Yeah, maybe it differs by state, but I thought that anybody can float on any body of water as long as they don't touch land.

Now having said that, there's a creek flowing through the Denver Country Club that I wouldn't want to test that on. They're very protective and have enough rich members to produce a body or two without repercussion.

[Ming the Merciless]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Yeah, but does that mean there is right to exclude all use of the water flowing through? I don't think so. I can't recall the term, but it is similar to an easement, where the pubic can't be excluded from utilizing the water flowing through.

It IS an easement, precisely.

The easement extends even to the bank and gravel bars etc...as I understand it.

[Radar Chief]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Yeah, but does that mean there is right to exclude all use of the water flowing through? I don't think so. I can't recall the term, but it is similar to an easement, where the pubic can't be excluded from utilizing the water flowing through.

I was once shot at while float fishing on the Neosho river for this very reason. When I complained to police I was told that I should stay away from that guys section of the river in the future.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

I was once shot at while float fishing on the Neosho river for this very reason. When I complained to police I was told that I should stay away from that guys section of the river in the future.

"That guy shot me in three places."

"Well, don't go back to those places next time."

[Radar Chief]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

"That guy shot me in three places."

"Well, don't go back to those places next time."

37* 43.153’N
95* 27.345’W

Just FYI.

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

I was once shot at while float fishing on the Neosho river for this very reason. When I complained to police I was told that I should stay away from that guys section of the river in the future.

Maybe you looked like you had to pee and he didn't want you to get any ideas.

[Radar Chief]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Maybe you looked like you had to pee and he didn't want you to get any ideas.

No, he’s just an old asshole.
I worked with his grandson and even he agreed the old **** is an asshole. When I told him my story he said, “Yup, he’ll do that.”