Confronting a cheater

[The Dude Abides]

Haven't been here in awhile, so check this out. Guess this could be related to the cheaters thread, but oh well. I had been seeing this woman for about 3 years. Everything was great, we got along, amazing sex, etc. But during this whole time, I live in Wichita, she in Newton, a 30 minute drive. She always had to visit me at my house because she lived with her ex. They had never been married, just dated for 9 years. Long story short, I saw the end coming, she was pulling away, as she had done before a few years ago, so I found where she lived and told her supposed ex the whole story of me and his woman. Oh yeah, they were very much together, he said. But he was a big puss and didn't get mad or anything. But needless to say, she got hysterical, said she hated me, i ruined her life, etc. I knew all this was going to happen anyway, but I just couldn't let her get away with her doing the whole player thing. So basically, what is your opinion on confronting the cheaters significant other?

[Mecca]

Hamas should obviously just let women abuse him, that's great behavior.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The man cheating with your wife didn't make vows to you, or your kids. Your wife did.

The wife didn't slip and fall on the guy's dick, she made a conscious decision to do that.

I've yet to understand why people outside of a marriage are responsible for it. It's the responsibility of the people inside the marriage to maintain it, not people outside.

no, but he contributes to putting her marriage and kids at risk.

yup, and he made conscious decision to let her do that.

So if it my responsibility to maintain my car, you should be able to treat it however you want?

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Phobia

My example of hanging was exclusive to the "crime" of cheating. The point was that there was a tangible accountability in the past and now there's not.

The jerk cheating with your wife is stealing your dignity and disrespecting you. He's wrecking your home. It's one thing if we're talking about a young married couple w/out children but it's COMPLETELY another when a dude humps your wife and destroys a family. That's an inexcusable crime for me and yes, in my mind, it's criminal. There's absolutely no excuse for any man to participate in that. Anybody who does it or condones it is a complete piece of garbage and I won't associate with them. That goes for the man who does the same thing to his family.

Reading that, I see it's the fault of a man if he cheats with another man's wife, and the fault of a man if he cheats on his own wife with another woman. So apparently there's no situation at all where a woman has any responsibility.

Whereas I say, if a wife cheats on a husband, she's the home-wrecker, she's the one disrespecting her husband, she's the one taking a vow and flushing it down the commode. She's not some innocent victim, she is responsible for the whole situation.

Which again, is not absolving the man (or the woman; there are homosexual affairs) outside of the couple. They're certainly wrong, too, but I say the lions-share of responsibility should be on the married couple. If they're not strong enough to commit, and I mean really commit, then they shouldn't marry in the first place. If their relationship is struggling, or if they feel lonely or unfulfilled or like the 'spark' is gone, then they need to find a constructive way to deal with it. Instead of putting themselves in situations where they're tempted to stray, or where they cheat. Because when they do, in my mind at least, while it is a reflection of the character or morality of the person they cheat with, it's a reflection of who they are, and, beyond that, they've broken what should be the tightest bond there can be between two people. They're certainly not a victim.

I see it as a sort of degree of wrongness. Adultery is wrong, regardless, and an act I don't ever expect I'd knowingly commit (I've actually had the opportunity and declined), but in the end who's more wrong: the person outside the married couple, or the person in it, who broke their wedding vow?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by stevieray

no, but he contributes to putting her marriage and kids at risk.

yup, and he made conscious decision to let her do that.

So if it my responsibility to maintain my car, you should be able to treat it however you want?

That's a completely preposterous analogy that has absolutely no bearing on this situation whatsoever.

The third person isn't married to you. They have no loyalty to you, or anyone else in your family. The person who is cheating on you, does. A spouse who is going to cheat on you is going to do it with someone. With whom they do it is irrelevant.

Who is the one performing the betrayal here?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Katipan

I believe the same results could be reached by just pissing on the girl

And that's usually a lot more fun.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

FWIW, a woman isn't a piece of property, like a car. You don't own her. She's not your possession. That itself is a pretty unattractive viewpoint to take towards women.

She's a partner. If she betrays the partnership, that's her failure. Yeah, the person she's cheating with is displaying some moral turpitude, but it's not their responsibility to maintain your marriage.

I've discussed how wrong my ex was over and over and over on this site. She destroyed a family through her actions. She's a real piece of crap and I'm sorry my children are forced to be associated with her. I worry for them every day for what values she's taught them.

And yet, it takes two people to screw up this badly. If a dude catches wind that the woman is married he needs to run. Far. If fathers don't teach their sons this very basic form of respect for fellow man, then they've failed too.

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Reading that, I see it's the fault of a man if he cheats with another man's wife, and the fault of a man if he cheats on his own wife with another woman. So apparently there's no situation at all where a woman has any responsibility.

Whereas I say, if a wife cheats on a husband, she's the home-wrecker, she's the one disrespecting her husband, she's the one taking a vow and flushing it down the commode. She's not some innocent victim, she is responsible for the whole situation.

Which again, is not absolving the man (or the woman; there are homosexual affairs) outside of the couple. They're certainly wrong, too, but I say the lions-share of responsibility should be on the married couple. If they're not strong enough to commit, and I mean really commit, then they shouldn't marry in the first place. If their relationship is struggling, or if they feel lonely or unfulfilled or like the 'spark' is gone, then they need to find a constructive way to deal with it. Instead of putting themselves in situations where they're tempted to stray, or where they cheat. Because when they do, in my mind at least, while it is a reflection of the character or morality of the person they cheat with, it's a reflection of who they are, and, beyond that, they've broken what should be the tightest bond there can be between two people. They're certainly not a victim.

I see it as a sort of degree of wrongness. Adultery is wrong, regardless, and an act I don't ever expect I'd knowingly commit (I've actually had the opportunity and declined), but in the end who's more wrong: the person outside the married couple, or the person in it, who broke their wedding vow?

[stevieray]

[QUOTE='Hamas' Jenkins;5499481]That's a completely preposterous analogy that has absolutely no bearing on this situation whatsoever.

The third person isn't married to you. They have no loyalty to you, or anyone else in your family. The person who is cheating on you, does. A spouse who is going to cheat on you is going to do it with someone. With whom they do it is irrelevant.

Who is the one performing the betrayal here?[/QUOTE

betrayal, to deceive or seduce.

you're kind of proving my point..you keep coming from the pretext that women initiate it, when in fact that many men hit on married women, with no regard for either her or her husband's vows.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

That's a completely preposterous analogy that has absolutely no bearing on this situation whatsoever.

The third person isn't married to you. They have no loyalty to you, or anyone else in your family. The person who is cheating on you, does. A spouse who is going to cheat on you is going to do it with someone. With whom they do it is irrelevant.

Who is the one performing the betrayal here?

That's a good point, too.

I thought at first it was the typical "I've been wronged, I'm gonna kick his ass" testosterone-fueled reaction, but what I think I'm seeing here now is a 'women as victim' mentality, that the wives somehow aren't responsible for their own actions. Bad guys are tricking good girls into doing bad things that they don't really want to do.

Whereas I think women who cheat on their husbands know exactly what they're doing, and if it wasn't one guy it would be another. I don't think they're victims, and I don't think it's accidents. People don't just trip and fall into bed together.

Or if they do, I'm going to wrong parties.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by stevieray

betrayal, to deceive or seduce.

you're kind of proving my point..you keep coming from the pretext that women initiate it, when in fact that many men hit on married women, with no regard for either her or her husband's vows.

I'm not proving your point whatsoever, and I don't know how you could ever deduce that I am.

Are women so fragile that they cannot make rational decisions about who they do and do not sleep with? That some guy merely hitting on them will make her spread her legs because she's not enough of an independent person to make a decision about what she wants to do with herself?

Are we that misogynistic now?

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

That's a good point, too.

I thought at first it was the typical "I've been wronged, I'm gonna kick his ass" testosterone-fueled reaction, but what I think I'm seeing here now is a 'women as victim' mentality, that the wives somehow aren't responsible for their own actions. Bad guys are tricking good girls into doing bad things that they don't really want to do.

Whereas I think women who cheat on their husbands know exactly what they're doing, and if it wasn't one guy it would be another. I don't think they're victims, and I don't think it's accidents. People don't just trip and fall into bed together.

Or if they do, I'm going to wrong parties.

If I were a woman I'd be deeply offended by these inferences, because it appears as though those espousing these beliefs think that women don't have any agency over their own actions.

That's a very primitive belief.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

FWIW, a woman isn't a piece of property, like a car. You don't own her. She's not your possession.
.

really? I don't own my kids either?

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

That's a good point, too.

I thought at first it was the typical "I've been wronged, I'm gonna kick his ass" testosterone-fueled reaction, but what I think I'm seeing here now is a 'women as victim' mentality, that the wives somehow aren't responsible for their own actions. Bad guys are tricking good girls into doing bad things that they don't really want to do.

Whereas I think women who cheat on their husbands know exactly what they're doing, and if it wasn't one guy it would be another. I don't think they're victims, and I don't think it's accidents. People don't just trip and fall into bed together.

Or if they do, I'm going to wrong parties.

They aren't victims although most of the situations are different, some women are like some men and just frankly can't be faithful, with others there are other factors.

I'll speak from my personal experience since Stevie brought it up ever so nicely. The married woman I was familiar with, had a husband who cared more about his job than his wife. He was barely around or paid her much attention, I think she just simply wanted someone to pay attention to her like she mattered. She was married but felt extremely lonely.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by stevieray

really? I don't own my kids either?

Are you really saying that you own another human being?

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

I'm not proving your point whatsoever, and I don't know how you could ever deduce that I am.

Are women so fragile that they cannot make rational decisions about who they do and do not sleep with? That some guy merely hitting on them will make her spread her legs because she's not enough of an independent person to make a decision about what she wants to do with herself?

Are we that misogynistic now?

you still are.