Chiefs James Palmer: Chiefs "working on keeping" Frank Clark - Page 11

Dante84 · 12:21 PM

Restructuring Frank Clark is obviously the plan. https://t.co/UJN8mT3IOo
— James Palmer (@JamesPalmerTV) March 14, 2022

The Chiefs figured out an avenue in which the cap number with Clark makes more sense than the combined cap number of Clark's release and signing someone of his caliber. They took it to Clark earlier this month. He's interested in a return to KC. https://t.co/U4budrhBXg
— Sam McDowell (@SamMcDowell11) March 14, 2022

chiefzilla1501 · 03-14-2022, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfyre

Of course he has to take a pay cut or be cut. On the other hand, converting the bulk of the hit to a bonus over a 4 /5 year extension makes him very affordable. More affordable than market alternatives.

Yes, that’s fair. But that sells a different argument that we’re stuck with him for a longer time. Anyone thinking this is a 1-year “we lose money anyway” is mistaken. The ONLY reasonable route is either a very sizeable paycut or an extension. And he will have leverage with that extension because his agent isn’t going to let his $19m salary this year just disappear.

But yeah, it’s fair to say that the chiefs have a good shot at negotiating a long term extension that’s way more in line with his actual value

BryanBusby · 03-14-2022, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Ill make this simple -

Chiefs cut Frank Clark it cost the team $13MM they save a ton of cap space.

Restructure Clark and it cost the Chiefs $13M they save a ton of cap space.

Net result = $0 more.

Are you still confused? Do I need to get out the crayons?

Get them out. You can't restructure away already paid Signing Bonus.

You can move the cap hit for it around when it hits the cap, but it's staying there.

Do you not know a ****ing thing about NFL contracts?

duncan_idaho · 03-14-2022, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

No shit, dumbass. If they keep him on at any capacity, they have to pay him even more. That's the whole point.

It's an additional sunk cost.

The deal is good if...

Clark's 2022 hit goes down or breaks even from $13.6M and the cost to walk away from him in 2023 is LESS than 13.6M.

It's a bad deal if... that is not the case.

Pretty simple.

chiefzilla1501 · 03-14-2022, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Ill make this simple -

Chiefs cut Frank Clark it cost the team $13MM they save a ton of cap space.

Restructure Clark and it cost the Chiefs $13M they save a ton of cap space.

Net result = $0 more.

Are you still confused? Do I need to get out the crayons?

Here are the options….

Cut him and lose $13m. Or trade him and get picks back.

Ask clark to take an enormous paycut (with $19m as the negotiation starting point). Clark ain’t doing that.

Restructure. Which makes him impossible to cut next year but also impossible to keep. Because his agent will change his $19m to signing bonus and your only option is to add that ON TOP of his 2023 cap hit.

Long term extension. This is the only option that seems to make sense if we actually want to keep him. But it means we’re stuck with him for a while.

duncan_idaho · 03-14-2022, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

Get them out. You can't restructure away already paid Signing Bonus.

You can move the cap hit for it around when it hits the cap, but it's staying there.

Do you not know a ****ing thing about NFL contracts?

No, but you can reWORK the deal (with an added year or two) and maybe make it work.

If the REWORKED deal can get his cap hit to the same spot for this year to his pre-June 1 cut value ($13.6M), and the cost to cut him in 2023 is no more than it would have been this year, I won't be excited about watching him again, but it DOES return more value on your sunk costs, IMO.

chiefzilla1501 · 03-14-2022, 03:18 PM

Should also add… a trade is not easy. A team will have to take on a 2-year $39m contract.

Though they will be in a way better position to negotiate an extension since they’re not saddled with dead money.

Also, they’d have no guaranteed money so you can cut him for free next year for a team looking for a 1 year fix. Either that or that team can basically renegotiate a way more reasonable extension after this year.

But that’s a tough sell. Same reason nobody wanted to touch Justin Houston in the trade market

chiefzilla1501 · 03-14-2022, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

No, but you can reWORK the deal (with an added year or two) and maybe make it work.

If the REWORKED deal can get his cap hit to the same spot for this year to his pre-June 1 cut value ($13.6M), and the cost to cut him in 2023 is no more than it would have been this year, I won't be excited about watching him again, but it DOES return more value on your sunk costs, IMO.

It could but I don’t think we can pull it off without essentially guaranteeing several more years. Probably overpaying him. Because an agent isn’t going to walk away from a situation where he has really good leverage. The only real leverage the chiefs have is the agent knows the chiefs will be motivated to pay above market price since they are doing this as a cost cutting measure.

BryanBusby · 03-14-2022, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

No, but you can reWORK the deal (with an added year or two) and maybe make it work.

If the REWORKED deal can get his cap hit to the same spot for this year to his pre-June 1 cut value ($13.6M), and the cost to cut him in 2023 is no more than it would have been this year, I won't be excited about watching him again, but it DOES return more value on your sunk costs, IMO.

I think if our issue here is that he's just simply overpaid, your suggestion is a no-brainer.

I would definitely caution on it though. His production has declined year over year, 3rd string tackles blanked him and you can see he's not putting in a total effort.

I'd be wary and would just eat the cap acceleration and get a half-asser off the team now.

suzzer99 · 03-14-2022, 03:34 PM

I was roundly excoriated in another thread for passing along a suggestion from a supposed cap expert podcaster who said the Chiefs might do exactly this.

If I wasn't so lazy I would dig up the receipts.

JPH83 · 03-14-2022, 03:38 PM

Honestly think it's horrible, as others have said he's a waste of a roster spot. He isn't just not worth his salary or a mediocre player, he's dog s**t.

ThyKingdomCome15 · 03-14-2022, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

No, but you can reWORK the deal (with an added year or two) and maybe make it work.

If the REWORKED deal can get his cap hit to the same spot for this year to his pre-June 1 cut value ($13.6M), and the cost to cut him in 2023 is no more than it would have been this year, I won't be excited about watching him again, but it DOES return more value on your sunk costs, IMO.

I agree, it's a smart move. Combine that with us running razor thin on quality players at his position and it's a winning situation. I just feel like his passion for the game is gone and that's what bothers me. Dude doesn't give it his all despite having the ability to be a game wrecker.

**BigRedChief** · 03-14-2022, 03:52 PM

When he tries his best, he’s still a good DE. He takes too many plays off and doesn’t try his best in too many games. Maybe he’s injured, who knows. Take the pay cut, okay sign him. In Veach we trust.

FloridaMan88 · 03-14-2022, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

When he tries his best, he’s still a good DE. He takes too many plays off and doesn’t try his best in too many games. Maybe he’s injured, who knows. Take the pay cut, okay sign him. In Veach we trust.

He took the entire playoffs off this year.

**DaFace** · 03-14-2022, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Am I missing something here? That chart isn't nearly as damning as people seem to think it is. Its a chart of the top 50 in the NFL, regardless of position.

Verderame seems to misunderstand stats a lot from what I've seen. But yes, you're absolutely right. If we can conclude that he's the 50th best pass rusher in the NFL, that's not great, but it's hardly damning.

As long as we're just restructuring him, I don't have a huge issue with it.

htismaqe · 03-14-2022, 04:09 PM

They're not going to re-do his deal to "break even".

All of the info out there says the Chiefs figured out a way to SAVE against the cap and offered him such a deal.

This isn't about a $13M sunk cost vs. a $13M base salary. This is about moving his cap numbers so that's he's getting paid less than his cap hit would have been, probably a lot less, in 2022.

03-14-2022, 11:09 AM
Dante84 Tossed Salad & Scrambled Eggs Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: ATX & OPKS Casino cash: $-2108004 VARSITY	James Palmer: Chiefs "working on keeping" Frank Clark Restructuring Frank Clark is obviously the plan. https://t.co/UJN8mT3IOo — James Palmer (@JamesPalmerTV) March 14, 2022 The Chiefs figured out an avenue in which the cap number with Clark makes more sense than the combined cap number of Clark's release and signing someone of his caliber. They took it to Clark earlier this month. He's interested in a return to KC. https://t.co/U4budrhBXg — Sam McDowell (@SamMcDowell11) March 14, 2022 Last edited by Dante84; 03-14-2022 at 12:21 PM..
Posts: 20,463

03-14-2022, 03:18 PM	#156
chiefzilla1501 In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $-1855503	Should also add… a trade is not easy. A team will have to take on a 2-year $39m contract. Though they will be in a way better position to negotiate an extension since they’re not saddled with dead money. Also, they’d have no guaranteed money so you can cut him for free next year for a team looking for a 1 year fix. Either that or that team can basically renegotiate a way more reasonable extension after this year. But that’s a tough sell. Same reason nobody wanted to touch Justin Houston in the trade market
Posts: 51,695

03-14-2022, 03:34 PM	#159
suzzer99 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: L.A. Casino cash: $-875716	I was roundly excoriated in another thread for passing along a suggestion from a supposed cap expert podcaster who said the Chiefs might do exactly this. If I wasn't so lazy I would dig up the receipts.
Posts: 28,375	2 0

03-14-2022, 03:38 PM	#160
JPH83 Veteran Join Date: Feb 2021 Casino cash: $-269600	Honestly think it's horrible, as others have said he's a waste of a roster spot. He isn't just not worth his salary or a mediocre player, he's dog s**t.
Posts: 4,360	2 0

03-14-2022, 03:52 PM	#162
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-881038 VARSITY	When he tries his best, he’s still a good DE. He takes too many plays off and doesn’t try his best in too many games. Maybe he’s injured, who knows. Take the pay cut, okay sign him. In Veach we trust. __________________ Mahomes is not a game manager. Release the Kraken.
Posts: 81,383

03-14-2022, 04:09 PM	#165
htismaqe 'Tis my eye! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Chiefsplanet Casino cash: $8069900	They're not going to re-do his deal to "break even". All of the info out there says the Chiefs figured out a way to SAVE against the cap and offered him such a deal. This isn't about a $13M sunk cost vs. a $13M base salary. This is about moving his cap numbers so that's he's getting paid less than his cap hit would have been, probably a lot less, in 2022.
Posts: 104,482