8/7/22 Training Camp Discussion

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Molitoth

Players are going to have better days than others.

When I went to camp last Thursday, McDuffie was a standout making plays all over and MVS was shit, dropping 2 bomb TD's on top of a third bad play.

Sometimes players get in their own heads and they just need to go sleep and start over the next day. They are just like us normal people when we go to our jobs. Not ever day is amazing.

By all accounts (except one), McDuffie’s had a really good stretch overall. It’s one thing to say he had a bad day, but it’s another to say he and the secondary suck based on one day.

I do think that MVS’s drops could be at least a slight issue. That’s been an issue for him in the past. But I think he’s still a player worth having, whether he’s your #2 or #4.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

By all accounts (except one), McDuffie’s had a really good stretch overall. It’s one thing to say he had a bad day, but it’s another to say he and the secondary suck based on one day.

I do think that MVS’s drops could be at least a slight issue. That’s been an issue for him in the past. But I think he’s still a player worth having, whether he’s your #2 or #4.

It’s important that you guys understand something. My analysis is not based on one day — the one day was informative, but the cheese does not stand alone.

If I went out and practiced, you guys would immediately know in one practice that I played bad in practice because of problems that I will simply not bounce back from. I’m too small, I’m not fast enough, everybody is stronger than me. You saw one practice but you know I’m doomed.

Now McDuffie is 100 times the athlete I was in my prime, but the principle is the same. If McDuffie is losing due to technique (which he did), that’s fixable. If he loses due to some more natural issues (which he did), than the mountainside is going to be a lot steeper. There are some things he can do to negate the size differential, but there not as much he can do to correct a lack of makeup speed. And right now he’s still leaning on some hedging cheats he relied on in college.

Most of those issues are fixable, which is why I don’t think he’s a busy. But I saw such an array of issues, almost a different one every snap, that suggests he has a lot of building to do. The thought of him going up against Keenan Allen terrifies me.

If I’m wrong, fine. But what I’ve said is not entirely out of step with what the team has said and what some media personalities have reported. But it does run against conventional wisdom, so heads will explode.

Time will tell.

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

It’s important that you guys understand something. My analysis is not based on one day — the one day was informative, but the cheese does not stand alone.

If I went out and practiced, you guys would immediately know in one practice that I played bad in practice because of problems that I will simply not bounce back from. I’m too small, I’m not fast enough, everybody is stronger than me. You saw one practice but you know I’m doomed.

Now McDuffie is 100 times the athlete I was in my prime, but the principle is the same. If McDuffie is losing due to technique (which he did), that’s fixable. If he loses due to some more natural issues (which he did), than the mountainside is going to be a lot steeper. There are some things he can do to negate the size differential, but there not as much he can do to correct a lack of makeup speed. And right now he’s still leaning on some hedging cheats he relied on in college.

Most of those issues are fixable, which is why I don’t think he’s a busy. But I saw such an array of issues, almost a different one every snap, that suggests he has a lot of building to do. The thought of him going up against Keenan Allen terrifies me.

If I’m wrong, fine. But what I’ve said is not entirely out of step with what the team has said and what some media personalities have reported. But it does run against conventional wisdom, so heads will explode.

Time will tell.

I hope your whole report is wrong. It was 20 paragraphs of doom and gloom. Feels like we are about to become the Jags or Jets.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Coogs

I hope your whole report is wrong. It was 20 paragraphs of doom and gloom. Feels like we are about to become the Jags or Jets.

Direckshun is almost always doom and gloom.

He's been doing this every offseason in the Mahomes era, while the Chiefs go on to have a great season.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by Coogs

I hope your whole report is wrong. It was 20 paragraphs of doom and gloom. Feels like we are about to become the Jags or Jets.

I don’t think that’s a very good description of my post.

[AdolfOliverBush]

I'm hoping the pass rush will be improved enough to make up for the lack of experience in the secondary. If we can't get to the QB, it won't matter who the DBs are.

[ToxSocks]

As far as McDuffie goes, i think it's fair to say he's been more inconsistent than i'd hoped.

We have seen clips of him getting beaten badly and boxed out by bigger receivers. Josh Gordon's lone camp highlight came on what looked like a busted coverage by either McDuffie or the Safety. The splash plays haven't been there.

It doesn't mean he's going to be a bad player or that he'll have a bad season. Just that maybe he's not the superstar that flashes right away.

When we think of top end talented DB's that flashed early and often we can cite Eric Berry and Marcus Peters. Both of those guys dominated in OTA's, into camp and then into the regular season. Those were true star-type players. I remember Brandon Flowers having a lot of early camp buzz too.

So comparing McDuffie's camp to those guys i think it's fair to say it's been disappointing.

And i think it's a very fair question to ask here, but who's been having the better camp? McDuffie or Joshua Williams?

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

As far as McDuffie goes, i think it's fair to say he's been more inconsistent than i'd hoped.

We have seen clips of him getting beaten badly and boxed out by bigger receivers. Josh Gordon's lone camp highlight came on what looked like a busted coverage by either McDuffie or the Safety. The splash plays haven't been there.

It doesn't mean he's going to be a bad player or that he'll have a bad season. Just that maybe he's not the superstar that flashes right away.

When we think of top end talented DB's that flashed early and often we can cite Eric Berry and Marcus Peters. Both of those guys dominated in OTA's, into camp and then into the regular season. Those were true star-type players. I remember Brandon Flowers having a lot of early camp buzz too.

So comparing McDuffie's camp to those guys i think it's fair to say it's been disappointing.

And i think it's a very fair question to ask here, but who's been having the better camp? McDuffie or Joshua Williams?

I think Williams had a better practice yesterday, but he has a ton of growing to do as well. His mistakes yesterday were far more fixable, though.

As for the camp as a whole, reading and watching the tea leaves? It’s been a tie? Just if we go by the media reports. Hard to quantify if you’re not at all the practices.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

As far as McDuffie goes, i think it's fair to say he's been more inconsistent than i'd hoped.

We have seen clips of him getting beaten badly and boxed out by bigger receivers. Josh Gordon's lone camp highlight came on what looked like a busted coverage by either McDuffie or the Safety. The splash plays haven't been there.

It doesn't mean he's going to be a bad player or that he'll have a bad season. Just that maybe he's not the superstar that flashes right away.

When we think of top end talented DB's that flashed early and often we can cite Eric Berry and Marcus Peters. Both of those guys dominated in OTA's, into camp and then into the regular season. Those were true star-type players. I remember Brandon Flowers having a lot of early camp buzz too.

So comparing McDuffie's camp to those guys i think it's fair to say it's been disappointing.

And i think it's a very fair question to ask here, but who's been having the better camp? McDuffie or Joshua Williams?

Have you considered that Peters, Berry and Flowers were facing QBs that were somewhere between average and terrible? Not to mention weak receivers.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Have you considered that Peters, Berry and Flowers were facing QBs that were somewhere between average and terrible? Not to mention weak receivers.

It's about taking advantages of opportunities to make a play when the ball is thrown your way. McDuffie has had plenty of opportunities in camp.

Peters, for example, was one of the most opportunistic DB's we've ever seen put on a Chiefs uniform. Berry was a master play diagnoser and shot out of a cannon. These things were visible early and often.

Again, not an indication that McDuffie will be bad. But we're also not getting the early "stud" indications like with Peters and Berry. You'd like to see that, ya know?

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

It's about taking advantages of opportunities to make a play when the ball is thrown your way. McDuffie has had plenty of opportunities in camp.

Peters, for example, was one of the most opportunistic DB's we've ever seen put on a Chiefs uniform. Berry was a master play diagnoser and shot out of a cannon. These things were visible early and often.

Again, not an indication that McDuffie will be bad. But we're also not getting the early "stud" indications like with Peters and Berry. You'd like to see that, ya know?

There's been a lot of praise for McDuffie lately. And he apparently had 4 PBUs in two days. Pretty good, no?

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

There's been a lot of praise for McDuffie lately. And he apparently had 4 PBUs in two days. Pretty good, no?

Certainly. Which is why i used the word "consistency".

[AdolfOliverBush]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Have you considered that Peters, Berry and Flowers were facing QBs that were somewhere between average and terrible? Not to mention weak receivers.

And none of them ever lived up to their potential. I'll take my chances with a very talented 1st round pick who isn't making people spontaneously cum during the first week of training camp.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

And none of them ever lived up to their potential.

__________________
Life is like a dick. Sometimes it gets hard for no reason, but it can't stay hard forever.

[AdolfOliverBush]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

You could make an argument that Flowers hit his ceiling, but Peters and Berry? Not even close.