Chiefs At the Quarter Mark: Better or Worse? - Page 12

**OnTheWarpath15** · 05:47 PM

After the Haley hire, you couldn't throw a stick through this place without hitting someone that made the following comment:

"We'll be a better team based on coaching alone," or, "we'll win X amount of games due to coaching alone."

Yes, it's only been 4 games, and this is NOT a call for Haley's head - but is deserved criticism of the way he's prepared this team over the first 4 games of the regular season.

Also, IN NO WAY is the following an endorsement of Herman Edwards. What it is, however, is a giant red flag - this team - of which 60% has been handpicked by Pioli and Haley - is actually worse in almost all statistical categories when compared to the 2008 team after 4 games - which many here claimed were the darkest days of last season. We'll call it, B.S. - or, Before Spread.

Offensively (bolded number is 2009 totals):

1st downs: (63) (62)

3rd down conversions: (25/62 - 40%) (9/51 - 18%)

Total yards: (1145) (986)

Rushing yards: (554) (406)

Passing yards: (591) (580)

Sacks Allowed: (12) (13)

Penalties/Yardage: (10/109) 29/230

Scoring: (16.25 PPG) (16 PPG)

Not a single category in which we've improved over 2008, which happened to include going through 3 QB's - playing the 3rd stringer in 2 of the 4.

Defensively:

1st downs allowed: (74) (85)

3rd down conversions against: (25/54 - 46%) (25/58 - 43%)

Total yards allowed: (1517) (1516)

Rushing yards allowed: (706) (514)

Passing yards allowed: (811) (1002)

Sacks: (3) (5)

Points allowed: (24.25 PPG) (28 PPG)

Turnover margin: (+2) (Even)

Yea! 2 more sacks! And nice to see the 192 yard improvement from the rush defense, only to see 191 of it be given back up by the pass defense.

The 2008 team was apparently so bad that management felt the need to purge 30 players, yet is playing worse with a roster that is 60% their handpicked players?

What message are you trying to send, Todd? It seems like it changes on a weekly ****ing basis.

As someone who predicted a 3 win season, the losses aren't surprising me.

The way we are losing, after hearing the phrase, "we're going to be a big, strong, fast, smart, tough, disciplined football team" IS surprising me.

There is no improvement over the "Dark Ages" of last season in ANY of those areas. And there's no excuse for it, especially the lack of discipline. Make 'em run some more, Todd - it seems to be working...

Enough excuses - enough with the "messages" - enough petty bullshit sitting players - time to see some ****ing improvement. Not necessarily wins.

IMPROVEMENT.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RippedmyFlesh

Agree the qb killing rrpp herm was familiar to anyone in ny getting jets games. He was fun to watch at press conferences when he WASN'T YOUR coach.

So who do you blame for Chad Pennington's current injury status?

You DO know that he's out for the year, right?

Is that Herm's fault?

**the Talking Can** · 10-06-2009, 02:53 PM

now we're pro-herm....anybody with a brain knew exactly what Herm was, and what he'd do in KC...he was Carl's cronie and he simply continued our mediocrity until it literally imploded...he was a failure anyone could see coming from a mile away, and most here did actually...

this board is in a state of hysteria unlike anything I've ever seen....

like Glenn Beck eating acid and walking through a hall of mirrors while wearing an obama mask hysterics...

ChiefsCountry · 10-06-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It's NOT meaningless.

99% of the people here thought this franchise was going the wrong direction under Herm, even though he had drafted young players and was working to overhaul the roster.

In the past two years alone, he drafted a stud WR, two young defensive end/tackles (Turk & Tank), a franchise left tackle, a stud DB in Flowers (and a damn good prospect in Carr), a supposed run stuffing DT in Dorsey and more.

Half those guys were sent packing and the rest were converted to a defense in which they weren't drafted to play. What Pioli's done is completely erase the past two drafts - threw them out the window.

Bowe's taken a step backwards, as has Albert. Pollard's gone. Turk's gone. Tank's a part-time player. Dorsey's playing out of position.

So, now that we're on this path, you'd think we'd be improved, right? WRONG. We're worse across the board. In throwing players in the trash in order to convert to a completely different defense, Pioli set the Chiefs back at least one year if not two. And he did nothing to compliment this team in free-agency.

In my opinion, it's an absolutely valid way to evaluate and quantify progress.

And so far, there's been NONE.

It's been all for naught.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

If I'm Clark Hunt interviewing Scott Pioli and Pioli tells me "Hey, my philosophy on defense is the 3-4. So the first order of business is to dump all of your high draft picks from the past two years in order to implement my defense", I say "Thanks for you time" and I'm hiring someone else.

It was absolutely FOOLISH to spend THREE of the top draft picks in 2008 & 2009 on FIVE TECH PLAYERS. The Chiefs should have drafted Sanchez, Mauluga, offensive lineman and skill players in this past draft.

Instead, we're ****ED for at least two more years because the amount of holes on both defense and offense cannot be filled with even adequate players in the draft and free agency.

Tom Dimitroff got that part right.

Scott Pioli did not.

Bullshit. Bull-****ING-Shit.

The last three years DID NOT have to be meaning less. The Chiefs made the right decisions in the draft. A pass rushing defensive end opposite Jared Allen. A stud WR to help in the passing game. Two 4-3 DT/DE's. A franchise LT, a college super-stud DT, a stud CB, a very good CB (Carr), etc.

Pioli is the guy that said "**** this. We're going 3-4" and basically negated the past few years. Hali can't play OLB in a 3-4. Dorsey's not a 5 Tech. Brandon Albert has taken a HUGE step backwards. Dwayne Bowe looks like ****ing Derrick Alexander out there. Flowers and Carr are fine but BFD? Tyson Jackson should have NEVER been drafted with the #3 overall pick.

Pioli IGNORED this shit offensive line in free-agency and the draft and he continues to ignore it.

I'm not even TALKING about Herm or Peterson: This season's failures lie directly in the lap of one man: Scott Pioli.

PERIOD.

ChiefsCountry · 10-06-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

now we're pro-herm....anybody with a brain knew exactly what Herm was, and what he'd do in KC...he was Carl's cronie and he simply continued our mediocrity until it literally imploded...he was a failure anyone could see coming from a mile away, and most here did actually...

Herm had the right idea to build the roster - his problem was his coaching.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Herm had the right idea to build the roster - his problem was his coaching.

Exactly.

If Herm had been allowed to begin the rebuilding process in 2006 or 2007, do I think he'd be the head coach today?

No.

But, for the first time in nearly 40 years, someone inside this organization had it right.

Build your team through the draft.

Period.

Reerun_KC · 10-06-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

So who do you blame for Chad Pennington's current injury status?

You DO know that he's out for the year, right?

Is that Herm's fault?

Yes.....

110%

Reerun_KC · 10-06-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

now we're pro-herm....anybody with a brain knew exactly what Herm was, and what he'd do in KC...he was Carl's cronie and he simply continued our mediocrity until it literally imploded...he was a failure anyone could see coming from a mile away, and most here did actually...

this board is in a state of hysteria unlike anything I've ever seen....

like Glenn Beck eating acid and walking through a hall of mirrors while wearing an obama mask hysterics...

I agree TTC, some of the best posters on the board are in full meltdown mode? Just a bunch of crazy talk, They begged for change and when change happened? They paniced...

I am not sure what is happening, but something is runnng a muck through this message board..

It is scary.... Very scary....

Fish · 10-06-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Herm had the right idea to build the roster - his problem was his coaching.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

I agree TTC, some of the best posters on the board are in full meltdown mode? Just a bunch of crazy talk, They begged for change and when change happened? They paniced...

No.

People that are "upset" didn't beg for change.

They asked for improvement.

"Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss".

chiefzilla1501 · 10-06-2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Exactly.

If Herm had been allowed to begin the rebuilding process in 2006 or 2007, do I think he'd be the head coach today?

No.

But, for the first time in nearly 40 years, someone inside this organization had it right.

Build your team through the draft.

Period.

FINALLY.

I have taken so much shit with this same exact position. A LOT of shit.

chiefzilla1501 · 10-06-2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

That happens all the time all over the NFL not just in KC.. Many times a new GM and HC come in and want their players, team, etc.....

Yes the last 3 years were all for naught. We knew as they were happening any respectable GM who comes in is going to clean house and start over...

Its sucks, its going to take some time, but if we can endure 3 years of Herm, then we can endure Pioli and Haley finally trying to build a championship team in KC, first time in a long time.

If Herm Edwards didn't insist on the rebuild, we'd be two years behind schedule. Whether you agree or not about the talent he brought in, you can't deny that he made a very bold move to demand that he take a wrecking ball and rebuild from scratch.

Herm knew he'd end up losing a lot of games in 2008. He could've easily told Peterson to spend a bunch of money to make the team a fringe playoff contender, but he insisted that he do it the right way. Much as people hate Herm, he fell on his sword for the good of the franchise.

You think Pioli had a hard time getting rid of Herm guys. Imagine how much tougher it would have been if we had a bunch of average, cap-eating free agents on our roster right now. At least when Pioli cut Herm's young guys, they were free to cut.

**SAUTO** · 10-06-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

Herm had the right idea to build the roster - his problem was his coaching.

IMO herms problem was THE PLAYERS he picked coupled with his coaching.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

IMO herms problem was THE PLAYERS he picked coupled with his coaching.

Like who?

Hali? Bowe? Flowers? Carr? Leggett? Dorsey? Albert? Page?

Who?

CoMoChief · 10-06-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefs1111

if there isn't an uncapped year I hope Clark will spend some money on some good,young free agents.. It would be nice for a change

Good young FA's don't hit the FA market, Only the Chiefs get rid of their good young players (JA).

**SAUTO** · 10-06-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Like who?

Hali? Bowe? Flowers? Carr? Leggett? Dorsey? Albert? Page?

Who?

come on dane, hali? he gets so much shit on this board. how about mcbride? pollard? there's more. for sure

10-05-2009, 01:50 PM
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2041115	At the Quarter Mark: Better or Worse? After the Haley hire, you couldn't throw a stick through this place without hitting someone that made the following comment: "We'll be a better team based on coaching alone," or, "we'll win X amount of games due to coaching alone." Yes, it's only been 4 games, and this is NOT a call for Haley's head - but is deserved criticism of the way he's prepared this team over the first 4 games of the regular season. Also, IN NO WAY is the following an endorsement of Herman Edwards. What it is, however, is a giant red flag - this team - of which 60% has been handpicked by Pioli and Haley - is actually worse in almost all statistical categories when compared to the 2008 team after 4 games - which many here claimed were the darkest days of last season. We'll call it, B.S. - or, Before Spread. Offensively (bolded number is 2009 totals): 1st downs: (63) (62) 3rd down conversions: (25/62 - 40%) (9/51 - 18%) Total yards: (1145) (986) Rushing yards: (554) (406) Passing yards: (591) (580) Sacks Allowed: (12) (13) Penalties/Yardage: (10/109) 29/230 Scoring: (16.25 PPG) (16 PPG) Not a single category in which we've improved over 2008, which happened to include going through 3 QB's - playing the 3rd stringer in 2 of the 4. Defensively: 1st downs allowed: (74) (85) 3rd down conversions against: (25/54 - 46%) (25/58 - 43%) Total yards allowed: (1517) (1516) Rushing yards allowed: (706) (514) Passing yards allowed: (811) (1002) Sacks: (3) (5) Points allowed: (24.25 PPG) (28 PPG) Turnover margin: (+2) (Even) Yea! 2 more sacks! And nice to see the 192 yard improvement from the rush defense, only to see 191 of it be given back up by the pass defense. The 2008 team was apparently so bad that management felt the need to purge 30 players, yet is playing worse with a roster that is 60% their handpicked players? What message are you trying to send, Todd? It seems like it changes on a weekly **ing basis. As someone who predicted a 3 win season, the losses aren't surprising me. The way we are losing, after hearing the phrase, "we're going to be a big, strong, fast, smart, tough, disciplined football team" IS surprising me. There is no improvement over the "Dark Ages" of last season in ANY of those areas. And there's no excuse for it, especially the lack of discipline. Make 'em run some more, Todd - it seems to be working... Enough excuses - enough with the "messages" - enough petty bullshit sitting players - time to see some *ing improvement. Not necessarily wins. IMPROVEMENT. Last edited by OnTheWarpath15; 10-05-2009 at 05:47 PM..*
Posts: 60,758

10-06-2009, 02:53 PM	#167
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $9122208	now we're pro-herm....anybody with a brain knew exactly what Herm was, and what he'd do in KC...he was Carl's cronie and he simply continued our mediocrity until it literally imploded...he was a failure anyone could see coming from a mile away, and most here did actually... this board is in a state of hysteria unlike anything I've ever seen.... like Glenn Beck eating acid and walking through a hall of mirrors while wearing an obama mask hysterics... __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"
Posts: 51,585