Chiefs At the Quarter Mark: Better or Worse? - Page 13

**OnTheWarpath15** · 05:47 PM

After the Haley hire, you couldn't throw a stick through this place without hitting someone that made the following comment:

"We'll be a better team based on coaching alone," or, "we'll win X amount of games due to coaching alone."

Yes, it's only been 4 games, and this is NOT a call for Haley's head - but is deserved criticism of the way he's prepared this team over the first 4 games of the regular season.

Also, IN NO WAY is the following an endorsement of Herman Edwards. What it is, however, is a giant red flag - this team - of which 60% has been handpicked by Pioli and Haley - is actually worse in almost all statistical categories when compared to the 2008 team after 4 games - which many here claimed were the darkest days of last season. We'll call it, B.S. - or, Before Spread.

Offensively (bolded number is 2009 totals):

1st downs: (63) (62)

3rd down conversions: (25/62 - 40%) (9/51 - 18%)

Total yards: (1145) (986)

Rushing yards: (554) (406)

Passing yards: (591) (580)

Sacks Allowed: (12) (13)

Penalties/Yardage: (10/109) 29/230

Scoring: (16.25 PPG) (16 PPG)

Not a single category in which we've improved over 2008, which happened to include going through 3 QB's - playing the 3rd stringer in 2 of the 4.

Defensively:

1st downs allowed: (74) (85)

3rd down conversions against: (25/54 - 46%) (25/58 - 43%)

Total yards allowed: (1517) (1516)

Rushing yards allowed: (706) (514)

Passing yards allowed: (811) (1002)

Sacks: (3) (5)

Points allowed: (24.25 PPG) (28 PPG)

Turnover margin: (+2) (Even)

Yea! 2 more sacks! And nice to see the 192 yard improvement from the rush defense, only to see 191 of it be given back up by the pass defense.

The 2008 team was apparently so bad that management felt the need to purge 30 players, yet is playing worse with a roster that is 60% their handpicked players?

What message are you trying to send, Todd? It seems like it changes on a weekly ****ing basis.

As someone who predicted a 3 win season, the losses aren't surprising me.

The way we are losing, after hearing the phrase, "we're going to be a big, strong, fast, smart, tough, disciplined football team" IS surprising me.

There is no improvement over the "Dark Ages" of last season in ANY of those areas. And there's no excuse for it, especially the lack of discipline. Make 'em run some more, Todd - it seems to be working...

Enough excuses - enough with the "messages" - enough petty bullshit sitting players - time to see some ****ing improvement. Not necessarily wins.

IMPROVEMENT.

Reerun_KC · 10-06-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If Herm Edwards didn't insist on the rebuild, we'd be two years behind schedule. Whether you agree or not about the talent he brought in, you can't deny that he made a very bold move to demand that he take a wrecking ball and rebuild from scratch.

Herm knew he'd end up losing a lot of games in 2008. He could've easily told Peterson to spend a bunch of money to make the team a fringe playoff contender, but he insisted that he do it the right way. Much as people hate Herm, he fell on his sword for the good of the franchise.

You think Pioli had a hard time getting rid of Herm guys. Imagine how much tougher it would have been if we had a bunch of average, cap-eating free agents on our roster right now. At least when Pioli cut Herm's young guys, they were free to cut.

Fair enough, I am all for the rebuild from scratch, but not with Herm within 1000 miles of KC...

Glad he feel on a sword, he sucked, plain and simple....

**the Talking Can** · 10-06-2009, 04:22 PM

Herm used rebuilding to buy himself another year excuse free...it blew up in his face, thankfully....

Herm only had a job because of Carl. Period. And if he wasn't under Carl's thumb and truly "bold" he would have rebuilt right away...and not stuck with Gunther.

Herm brought us Huard and Croyle and Thigpen. Whoppity ****ing doo.

fascinating to watch history being re-written in this thread....Herm the great talent evaluator! Herm the bold rebuilder! Herm the great motivator!

TEX · 10-06-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If Herm Edwards didn't insist on the rebuild, we'd be two years behind schedule. Whether you agree or not about the talent he brought in, you can't deny that he made a very bold move to demand that he take a wrecking ball and rebuild from scratch.

Herm knew he'd end up losing a lot of games in 2008. He could've easily told Peterson to spend a bunch of money to make the team a fringe playoff contender, but he insisted that he do it the right way. Much as people hate Herm, he fell on his sword for the good of the franchise.

You think Pioli had a hard time getting rid of Herm guys. Imagine how much tougher it would have been if we had a bunch of average, cap-eating free agents on our roster right now. At least when Pioli cut Herm's young guys, they were free to cut.

IMO, Herm is a master manipulator who gained Clark's ear with the whole rebuild thing. He hoped that it would "buy" him more time - plain and simple. I don't give that clown any credit for doing anything for the "good" of the franchise. It was more about his personal gain. Problem is his plan backfired when Carl stepped down. Herm was / is more shrewd than anything else.

POND_OF_RED · 10-06-2009, 04:26 PM

I think one stat that increased is games against defending playoff teams. 1 last year. 3 this year. I think that evens out the numbers a little IMO.

BWillie · 10-06-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz

The players are trying too hard to not make mistakes, like a driver that is too cautious causing wrecks

I don't know how a driver that is too cautious of causing wrecks would make more mistakes. LOL

I just don't understand that analogy?

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

Herm used rebuilding to buy himself another year excuse free...it blew up in his face, thankfully....

You're wrong. Herm wanted to rebuild in 2006 and again in 2007.

Peterson said no both times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

Herm only had a job because of Carl.

This is intellectually dishonest.

Herm had taken the NY Jets to the playoffs three out of five years. If the Chiefs hadn't traded for him, it's likely that he would have gotten another job elsewhere.

Don't pretend to know more than you do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

Period. And if he wasn't under Carl's thumb and truly "bold" he would have rebuilt right away...and not stuck with Gunther.

So, when you're hired by the President of a company that you know needs to be re-organized, you just walk in the door and say "X, X and X need to happen, NOW, Mother****er"?

Given the level of intelligence you repeatedly display in this forum, I find that highly unlikely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

Herm brought us Huard and Croyle and Thigpen. Whoppity ****ing doo.

Again, more bullshit from the Talking Can.

Huard had been on the Chiefs roster since 2004. Croyle was a third round draft choice. Thigpen was a waiver pick up who BTW, just netted a draft pick in return. Croyle played better than the $60 million dollar man.

What a load of horseshit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

fascinating to watch history being re-written in this thread....Herm the great talent evaluator! Herm the bold rebuilder! Herm the great motivator!

Rewritten? Again, WTF are you talking about?

And I'll tell you what: I'll take the 2008 draft every day of the week over the 2009 draft.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POND_OF_RED

I think one stat that increased is games against defending playoff teams. 1 last year. 3 this year. I think that evens out the numbers a little IMO.

Losses are losses.

Plain and simple.

Reerun_KC · 10-06-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Losses are losses.

Plain and simple.

And Herm racked them up at an alarming rate...

Plain and simple....

**SAUTO** · 10-06-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

You're wrong. Herm wanted to rebuild in 2006 and again in 2007.

Peterson said no both times.

This is intellectually dishonest.

Herm had taken the NY Jets to the playoffs three out of five years. If the Chiefs hadn't traded for him, it's likely that he would have gotten another job elsewhere.

Don't pretend to know more than you do.

So, when you're hired by the President of a company that you know needs to be re-organized, you just walk in the door and say "X, X and X need to happen, NOW, Mother****er"?

Given the level of intelligence you repeatedly display in this forum, I find that highly unlikely.

Again, more bullshit from the Talking Can.

Huard had been on the Chiefs roster since 2004. Croyle was a third round draft choice. Thigpen was a waiver pick up who BTW, just netted a draft pick in return. Croyle played better than the $60 million dollar man.

What a load of horseshit.

Rewritten? Again, WTF are you talking about?

And I'll tell you what: I'll take the 2008 draft every day of the week over the 2009 draft.

dane, there are MANY posts on this site that bash herm for his talent evaluation. i'm too busy to search but i would bet you have at least a couple

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

dane, there are MANY posts on this site that bash herm for his talent evaluation. i'm too busy to search but i would bet you have at least a couple

Jason, I don't give a **** about "other people".

If you're going to bash someone, back it up.

Chiefless · 10-06-2009, 04:53 PM

Sometimes in order to clean up a mess you have to make an even bigger mess. I just hope Haley/Pioli know what their doing, because this team has been completely taken apart...and the putting it back together part does not seem to be going according to plan. This off-season better see the shoring up of the o-line. Because that unit is unwatchable right now.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-06-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

I agree TTC, some of the best posters on the board are in full meltdown mode? Just a bunch of crazy talk, They begged for change and when change happened? They paniced...

I am not sure what is happening, but something is runnng a muck through this message board..

It is scary.... Very scary....

Jesus Christ, no one is pro Herm. You aren't this ****ing stupid. No one is. Saying that Herm had the right idea on how to build a franchise does not mean that he was a good coach, or that he was the right guy to continue the rebuild.

It means what it means: building through the draft is the way to go.

Anyone who wants to extract that someone is "pro-Herm" from that is a morally bankrupt one who sucks the penis.

keg in kc · 10-06-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Jason, I don't give a **** about "other people".

If you're going to bash someone, back it up.

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-06-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

And Herm racked them up at an alarming rate...

Plain and simple....

So did Vermeil.

2001 & 2002: 14-18

2006 & 2007: 13-19

Are you bitching about a one game difference or are you bitching about Year 3, when he was finally allowed to blow shit the **** up?

'Hamas' Jenkins · 10-06-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

Herm used rebuilding to buy himself another year excuse free...it blew up in his face, thankfully....

Herm only had a job because of Carl. Period. And if he wasn't under Carl's thumb and truly "bold" he would have rebuilt right away...and not stuck with Gunther.

Herm brought us Huard and Croyle and Thigpen. Whoppity ****ing doo.

fascinating to watch history being re-written in this thread....Herm the great talent evaluator! Herm the bold rebuilder! Herm the great motivator!

Nice to see that TheTalkingGoebbels still has the reading comprehension of a Fragile X child.

10-05-2009, 01:50 PM
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2041115	At the Quarter Mark: Better or Worse? After the Haley hire, you couldn't throw a stick through this place without hitting someone that made the following comment: "We'll be a better team based on coaching alone," or, "we'll win X amount of games due to coaching alone." Yes, it's only been 4 games, and this is NOT a call for Haley's head - but is deserved criticism of the way he's prepared this team over the first 4 games of the regular season. Also, IN NO WAY is the following an endorsement of Herman Edwards. What it is, however, is a giant red flag - this team - of which 60% has been handpicked by Pioli and Haley - is actually worse in almost all statistical categories when compared to the 2008 team after 4 games - which many here claimed were the darkest days of last season. We'll call it, B.S. - or, Before Spread. Offensively (bolded number is 2009 totals): 1st downs: (63) (62) 3rd down conversions: (25/62 - 40%) (9/51 - 18%) Total yards: (1145) (986) Rushing yards: (554) (406) Passing yards: (591) (580) Sacks Allowed: (12) (13) Penalties/Yardage: (10/109) 29/230 Scoring: (16.25 PPG) (16 PPG) Not a single category in which we've improved over 2008, which happened to include going through 3 QB's - playing the 3rd stringer in 2 of the 4. Defensively: 1st downs allowed: (74) (85) 3rd down conversions against: (25/54 - 46%) (25/58 - 43%) Total yards allowed: (1517) (1516) Rushing yards allowed: (706) (514) Passing yards allowed: (811) (1002) Sacks: (3) (5) Points allowed: (24.25 PPG) (28 PPG) Turnover margin: (+2) (Even) Yea! 2 more sacks! And nice to see the 192 yard improvement from the rush defense, only to see 191 of it be given back up by the pass defense. The 2008 team was apparently so bad that management felt the need to purge 30 players, yet is playing worse with a roster that is 60% their handpicked players? What message are you trying to send, Todd? It seems like it changes on a weekly **ing basis. As someone who predicted a 3 win season, the losses aren't surprising me. The way we are losing, after hearing the phrase, "we're going to be a big, strong, fast, smart, tough, disciplined football team" IS surprising me. There is no improvement over the "Dark Ages" of last season in ANY of those areas. And there's no excuse for it, especially the lack of discipline. Make 'em run some more, Todd - it seems to be working... Enough excuses - enough with the "messages" - enough petty bullshit sitting players - time to see some *ing improvement. Not necessarily wins. IMPROVEMENT. Last edited by OnTheWarpath15; 10-05-2009 at 05:47 PM..*
Posts: 60,758

10-06-2009, 04:22 PM	#182
the Talking Can Supporter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: street Casino cash: $9112208	Herm used rebuilding to buy himself another year excuse free...it blew up in his face, thankfully.... Herm only had a job because of Carl. Period. And if he wasn't under Carl's thumb and truly "bold" he would have rebuilt right away...and not stuck with Gunther. Herm brought us Huard and Croyle and Thigpen. Whoppity **ing doo. fascinating to watch history being re-written in this thread....Herm the great talent evaluator! Herm the bold rebuilder! Herm the great motivator! __________________ Clark Hunt: "Thank god for the Dominican pool boy"**
Posts: 51,585

10-06-2009, 04:26 PM	#184
POND_OF_RED The talking stonehead Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Blue Springs, MO Casino cash: $-1956854	I think one stat that increased is games against defending playoff teams. 1 last year. 3 this year. I think that evens out the numbers a little IMO.
Posts: 6,019

10-06-2009, 04:53 PM	#191
Chiefless Veteran Join Date: Jul 2001 Casino cash: $10007500	Sometimes in order to clean up a mess you have to make an even bigger mess. I just hope Haley/Pioli know what their doing, because this team has been completely taken apart...and the putting it back together part does not seem to be going according to plan. This off-season better see the shoring up of the o-line. Because that unit is unwatchable right now.
Posts: 1,326