** OFFICIAL: "Do You Believe in God and an Afterlife?" Thread**

[Mr. Kotter]

Simple question.

I'm just curious how representative this place is, compared with mainstream America on the question. A few threads of late, just got me wondering....

Please feel free to discuss.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by alnorth

I am atheist. I am not superior to christians, jews, muslims, etc. I dont smugly look down on religious people, because nearly everyone in my family, all my friends, coworkers, etc are religious to some degree or another and a few of them are highly intelligent, accomplished people.

I believe for nearly everyone that faith is a willful choice without regard to facts or evidence. For theists, their particular faith can never be disproven, and it usually brings a lot of happiness, satisfaction, and fulfillment to their lives. I believe that in the US, faith is not dangerous, nor is it an obstacle for human advancement. To me, its harmless and makes other people happy, and I cant prove to them that I'm right and they are wrong, so who the hell am I to try? Now, if we were an islamic society where half the people shout that an invisible man in the clouds wants them to murder infidels, I would probably have a hostile attitude towards faith, but this sort of thing is not a problem in our country and it will probably become less of a problem over time worldwide.

I personally dont even like to talk about religion with friends and family. I dont hide my lack of belief and I am ashamed of nothing, but every time I talk about atheism, someone tries to save me or tries to "prove" to me that their invisible man exists, and I must do what he says. So, as long as I am not being hurt by religion, I will continue to look forward to the Easter and Christmas holidays for whatever enjoyment I happen to get out of them, keep my own opinions to myself, and let everyone else live their lives in a society that guarantees religious freedom.

I am not one of those people who gets pissed off at the christmas tree or "in god we trust" on my money, those particular atheists should get a life.

This is the closest response to the way I think about these things except that I'd call myself agnostic rather than an atheist.

[patteeu]

Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic

The other benefit to being a non believer is that at the sports bar on Sunday you get to take up the best seats in front of the big screen while the church going stragglers get whatevers left.

I get the worst of both worlds. I'm an agnostic who goes to church every week for my wife (who is a believer) and our kids (who I think will be better off if they have a traditional upbringing). I'm not getting the good seats at the sports bar AND I'm going to hell.

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by patteeu

I get the worst of both worlds. I'm an agnostic who goes to church every week for my wife (who is a believer) and our kids (who I think will be better off if they have a traditional upbringing). I'm not getting the good seats at the sports bar AND I'm going to hell.

It's what you get for being a neocon!

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by patteeu

I get the worst of both worlds. I'm an agnostic who goes to church every week for my wife (who is a believer) and our kids (who I think will be better off if they have a traditional upbringing). I'm not getting the good seats at the sports bar AND I'm going to hell.

You poor bastard. Although I bet your wife appreciates that.

[Braincase]

Originally Posted by C-Mac

OK...I'm confused, what did I miss here?

GC is neg repping folks in the thread that don't agree with his point of view. If he were in front of me, I'd tell him to his face that he's closely resembling the lower GI tract.

[tiptap]

It is a result of the concept of atomism, not atoms per se, but atomism that I find a god for all time and space unreal. The concept of atomism is that everything is the sum, and more, of a large number of discrete units. Chemical atoms would be an example for most matter on Earth. Cells would be the building blocks of living matter. Stars would be the building blocks of galaxies. I see no example in existence where something is large and expansive and is itself of one and only one thing discrete unto itself. I mean it is convenient to say a copper wire is a solid but we know it is made up of billions and billions of repeating units of copper atoms. That there are colligative properties that arise simply from being a mass of these units. Absent from a single atom.

This is true for life. The cell is the building block for all life. And I have no conception that shown validity for life to exist apart from this building material. As such I am confident that all life is related, different snow flakes so to speak, of this unit. And at the same time that any god would also have to be composite of some unit and as such is not eternal compared to the building blocks.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Braincase

GC is neg repping folks in the thread that don't agree with his point of view.

I'm far more discriminating than that. But thanks for taking the bait. It was amusing.

[RJ]

Originally Posted by Braincase

GC is neg repping folks in the thread that don't agree with his point of view. If he were in front of me, I'd tell him to his face that he's closely resembling the lower GI tract.

Dude, no offense but does "neg rep" really matter when the subjest matter is God and the Afterlife? That strikes me as sort of funny.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

THEORY LOL

Please tell me you understand many Christians accept evolution (as it may be so far, "validated") as God's method of creation....and, yet, like the creation story has lots of holes that still render, at the very least, specific aspects of it as "theory"

[C-Mac]

Originally Posted by tiptap

It is a result of the concept of atomism, not atoms per se, but atomism that I find a god for all time and space unreal. The concept of atomism is that everything is the sum, and more, of a large number of discrete units. Chemical atoms would be an example for most matter on Earth. Cells would be the building blocks of living matter. Stars would be the building blocks of galaxies. I see no example in existence where something is large and expansive and is itself of one and only one thing discrete unto itself. I mean it is convenient to say a copper wire is a solid but we know it is made up of billions and billions of repeating units of copper atoms. That there are colligative properties that arise simply from being a mass of these units. Absent from a single atom.

This is true for life. The cell is the building block for all life. And I have no conception that shown validity for life to exist apart from this building material. As such I am confident that all life is related, different snow flakes so to speak, of this unit. And at the same time that any god would also have to be composite of some unit and as such is not eternal compared to the building blocks.

You just havent learned how to think outside the box yet.

[tiptap]

Originally Posted by C-Mac

You just havent learned how to think outside the box yet.

Tell me you can walk on water or rise from the dead and the "concept" exist. The same could be said for god. But the test of existence is there evidence for your position outside of words alone. For those who make their religious books absolute words are everything so it may be that those people fail to look outside the box. Truth doesn't exist in words. It may represent truths well but it is just as true that "If wishes were horses than poor men would ride" It is a harsh reality. And cooperation, sometimes helped along by religious thought, can make our existence easier and more rewarding. But it doesn't change the harsh reality that is exhibited in nature.

Imagination seemingly has no borders but if the sun were to explode or the earth gets hit by asteroids or even if a plague does in all humans imagination would cease to exist on this planet. As such it is dependent upon existence of the unit, the unit of man.

Originally Posted by RJ

I'd probably be a more spiritual person if it weren't for most of the religious folks I've met. Various Christians have been giving me doubt as to the existence of a capital G God since I was a child. From the nun who told me when I was 8 y/o that I was going to hell for wearing corduroy pants to school, to the protestants who took a bunch of 7th graders on a "retreat" so they might scare the shit out of us in an effort to save our souls (from what I don't know) to the church people of all kinds who ring my doorbell despite my "no soliciting" sign so they can talk to me about my religious beliefs.........and then tell me, "Oh, we're not soliciting, we're from the fill-in-the-blank church!". Not to mention the Christian fundamentalists who want to decide what I watch on tv or what my daughter learns in school.

So on the one hand I look around me at the wonders of the world and the miracle of life and think that there must surely be a higher power. But then I think, if there is a capital G God then why would the capital H He want the most obnoxious people I've met in my 47 years on the planet acting as his agents? C'mon, if He is God can't he find some better spokespeople?

No offense meant to all the well meaning, good deed doing, sincere folks of all religions in the world. I know you are out there, but I think you're outnumbered within your own ranks.

People are fallible. God is not. People are flawed. I'm one of the most obnoxious people on the planet, but not about my faith.

My church isn't like that. You could find something similar. If you can't the invitation to my church is open.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by tiptap

Tell me you can walk on water or rise from the dead and the "concept" exist. The same could be said for god. But the test of existence is there evidence for your position outside of words alone. For those who make their religious books absolute words are everything so it may be that those people fail to look outside the box. Truth doesn't exist in words. It may represent truths well but it is just as true that "If wishes were horses than poor men would ride" It is a harsh reality. And cooperation, sometimes helped along by religious thought, can make our existence easier and more rewarding. But it doesn't change the harsh reality that is exhibited in nature.

Imagination seemingly has no borders but if the sun were to explode or the earth gets hit by asteroids or even if a plague does in all humans imagination would cease to exist on this planet. As such it is dependent upon existence of the unit, the unit of man.

Many of us who consider ourselves Christians, understand that such events were the result of one of two things:
1. Miracles, through interventions by the Supreme Being
2. Embellishment of actual events and/or literary devices.

Either way, many know such things aren't, necessarily, meant to be taken literally.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Phobia

I'm one of the most obnoxious people on the planet.

This needs to go in someone's sig.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by Phobia

People are fallible. God is not. People are flawed. I'm one of the most obnoxious people on the planet, but not about my faith.

My church isn't like that. You could find something similar. If you can't the invitation to my church is open.

Agreed.

One of the most common attacks on organized churches, are on the excesses and hypocrisy of men. All men are imperfect, and fall short.

Faith and spirtuality should have much less to do with how OTHERS behave and what OTHERS think, than with what YOU think...

Isn't it kinda of silly to allow the weaknesses of others to influence you so much in what YOU believe? It just strikes me as an adult version of "peer pressure".....

"Look at those hypocrites. Just goes to show they all must be kooks. And I'm no kook."

as:

"Look at those cool kids; they smoke. And the nerds, look at them--they don't smoke. And I'm no Nerd....."