IF: Belichick is overrated (and he is) who IS the greatest NFL head coach?

[Chris Meck]

I don't think you can count anyone from the pre-merger era, the game was so different, the league was half the size so the available talent was concentrated, and no free agency.

What are your criteria? I suppose everyone might have slightly different points to argue.

I think winning multiple Super Bowls is pretty crucial to even get in the conversation.

How about the coaching tree? Does the success of coaches that came from under their wing go on their resume? I think perhaps that should count for something.

I think getting to and/or winning multiple Super Bowls in multiple situations counts in a coach's favor.

Take Joe Gibbs, for example: He won 3 Super Bowls in 9 years with THREE different QB's. That's pretty incredible.

Walsh won three with Montana, but Siefert picked up where he left off and won two more. Holmgren and then Reid and Gruden by extension all come from that tree. Mike Shanahan, too.

Noll won 4 with Pittsburgh in 6 years.

Shula lost one with Unitas, but went 2-1 with Griese; but couldn't win one with Marino, perhaps the best pure passer in history. I kind of count that against him.


Andy Reid is 2-2 in Super Bowls; and while he didn't win one until he had a great QB, he took the solidly 'above average' Mcnabb to two and had winning seasons with all sorts of guys that were never worth a shit anywhere else. His coaching tree has also been successful, with SB wins of their own (Harbaugh, Pederson). 2-1 with Mahomes in a four season stretch is just a notch below Walsh, in my book-but only as of now. If he gets, say, 4 in 6 years to equal Noll's run with Bradshaw I think you have to seriously consider Andy.

Belichick has 6 rings, so he's the best right? I say NO.
As a head coach, without Tom Brady, he's an sub .500 coach. This is multiple seasons before AND after, with the Browns AND Patriots. His 'tree' is a laughing stock of morons that have failed league-wide. And let's not forget the cheating scandals.

So, if you ask me, it's Walsh. In terms of wins, in terms of the impact of his coaching tree.

But I might have to give an honorable mention shout-out to Gibbs; winning 3 in 9 years with three different QB's (and two had never been anything special and never would again in Doug Williams and Mark Rypien). Different game, yeah. Just saying. That's a hell of an accomplishment.

Parcells only won two, but his tree includes successes like Belichick(6) and Tom Coughlin (2).

[chiefzilla1501]

I wouldn’t have been on the stafford train since I think he’s responsible for a lot more of the Detroit shortcomings than we think. However I actually think a few more years of this, including a few deep playoff runs (which the rams are sneaky capable of) actually kinda puts him in that conversation. If he does that it’s hard to separate him from Eli, and I think Eli is a HOFer. Even if on the whole hjs teams were average, he was productive enough to support a 2 Super Bowl career which already gives a leg up.

Man, I don’t know what to think of Russell because it just doesn’t feel like he belongs in the same conversation as Eli. And I’m struggling to articulate why even though a lot of their case is very similar

[chiefzilla1501]

I think Big Ben belongs in this boat too, btw. It’s a hard pill to swallow. But man, like Eli, he was absolutely nails during a lot of their playoff and Super Bowl success and unlike Flacco has a decently productive career to back it

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think Big Ben belongs in this boat too, btw. It’s a hard pill to swallow. But man, like Eli, he was absolutely nails during a lot of their playoff and Super Bowl success and unlike Flacco has a decently productive career to back it

Raperberger's got two rings. That plus the stats gets him in.

Eli, too.

Stafford or Wilson would need another ring or a career revival with some huge years.

Just my opinion. Right now, they're not quite there.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

If Wilson even sniffs the HOF, it’s lost all credibility.

[stevegroganfan]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

If Wilson even sniffs the HOF, it’s lost all credibility.

Russell Wilson is making the HOF. .Wilson has 9 pro bowl appearances. I'd be surprised if there is any QB with even 8 Pro Bowls and even 1 SB win that hasn't already made the HOF or isn't heading there.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by stevegroganfan

Russell Wilson is making the HOF. .Wilson has 9 pro bowl appearances. I'd be surprised if there is any QB with even 8 Pro Bowls and even 1 SB win that hasn't already made the HOF or isn't heading there.

I guess it’s lost all credibility then.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by stevegroganfan

Russell Wilson is making the HOF. .Wilson has 9 pro bowl appearances. I'd be surprised if there is any QB with even 8 Pro Bowls and even 1 SB win that hasn't already made the HOF or isn't heading there.

Pro Bowls? If that is any sort of basis for the HOF then the bar for getting in really has dropped.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by tredadda

Pro Bowls? If that is any sort of basis for the HOF then the bar for getting in really has dropped.

Yeah, it’s sad if that’s truly a major criteria. Tons of average/mediocre QBs have several Pro Bowl appearances.

[BryanBusby]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

I guess it’s lost all credibility then.

Already gone once they added Terrell Davis.

[Gary Cooper]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

If Wilson even sniffs the HOF, it’s lost all credibility.

If Eli Manning gets in though, why wouldn't Wilson? He was a better QB than Manning.

Either both or neither should be inducted.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Gary Cooper

If Eli Manning gets in though, why wouldn't Wilson? He was a better QB than Manning.

Either both or neither should be inducted.

Because Wilson has won half as many Super Bowls. That’s the only reason Manning would get in.

[Gary Cooper]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Because Wilson has won half as many Super Bowls. That’s the only reason Manning would get in.

I get that but that's splitting hairs IMO. That one boneheaded play call and throw cost Wilson an additional Super Bowl. Wilson was elite between 2018-2020. Manning never hit that level and was never one of the league's top QBs. He turned the ball over too much.

He will get in because of his last name, the two SBs, and playing in New York. It will be one of the weaker inductions at QB.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Gary Cooper

If Eli Manning gets in though, why wouldn't Wilson? He was a better QB than Manning.

Either both or neither should be inducted.

This is the ultimate chinese finger trap because I strongly disagree but I don't have a solid argument why.

I guess I'm more impressed with who Eli beat than the pure number of times he did it.

[SHOWTIME]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Manning certainly.

Wilson I kind of doubt.

Stafford at this point in time I doubt.

would love to see Eli and Brady get into the HOF in the same class. oh, the irony of that…

[Hammock Parties]

Rob Gronkowski on His Relationship with Bill Belichick:

"I think he's misunderstood. People think he's this hard ass, but he's not. No one really knows anything about the dude, and they just judge him.

Me included. When I first got drafted by the Patriots, I didn’t know what to expect. I wanted to prove myself, so I showed up early to my first team workout. Locker room’s empty except for Bill. He’s changing. I catch a glimpse of his back and immediately recognize him. You know those ultra famous people you can identify from any angle. That’s Bill.

But then he turns around. And brother, I nearly dropped my gym bag.
Standing before me, in all his glory, was Bill Belichick shirtless with a set of absolute headlining breasts. And I don’t mean some ‘hey, maybe he put on a little weight’ dad chest. No. These were majestic. Full blown Super Bowl winning Hall of Fame caliber gazongas. I’m talking first ballot knockers.

He notices me staring. Starts walking over. These things? They move, man. They have presence. I can feel them in the room before he even speaks. And then he hits me with it.

‘Hey… Bill. You must be Rob.’

I have never been more intimidated in my life. And I went to the University of Arizona. I've seen some intoxicating medusas out in the desert.

But nothing... nothing... prepared me for the gravitational pull of those legendary warlocks. I mumbled something, made an excuse, and got the hell out of there before I lost myself completely.

Months go by. Season starts. But I’m a mess. Brady notices I’m distracted. Calls timeout mid huddle. He pulls me aside.

‘Gronk, what’s going on? You’re not locked in.’

I don’t even have to say it. He knows. He sees it in my eyes.

‘You saw Bill’s Lombardi Lumps, didn’t you?’

I nod. He sighs. Puts a hand on my shoulder.

‘Listen, man. We’ve all seen ‘em. He shows ‘em to every new player... to test us. To see if we’re mentally strong enough to move past them. Some don’t make it. Some never recover. That’s why we lost Welker. That’s why Bledsoe never played another snap here. You have to fight through it, man. We’re Patriots. It’s what we do.’

I swallow hard. I want to believe him. I want to move on. But then he leans in, real quiet.

‘Gronk… those hooters won us three rings.’

And that’s when it clicked. That’s when I understood.

Bill Belichick wasn’t just a genius coach... he was a man carrying an ancient burden. A forbidden gift bestowed by the football gods themselves. A cursed but beautiful power that only those inside the Patriots’ locker room would ever truly know.

So from that day forward, I played every snap for him. For us. For ... those.
And that’s why we’re a dynasty."