Whitlock: Why should the Chiefs bring Haley back?

[Fish]

And please don't bother with the "If you hate this team so much... why...."

It's been said many times... I can criticize the team without hating them. Do you agree with everything your wife or children do? If you disagree, why not find a new wife and child. Well you don't, because that's just not the way it works.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

And please don't bother with the "If you hate this team so much... why...."

It's been said many times... I can criticize the team without hating them. Do you agree with everything your wife or children do? If you disagree, why not find a new wife and child. Well you don't, because that's just not the way it works.

That's kind of a bad comparison there.

Obviously we all have things to critique about this awful season. Some do it in a peacfull manner with out talking down to others. Some, at least have a positive outlook.

Im just keeping it real, calling it how i see it. Most are not happy with what is going on right now. Most of us know that Pioli and Haley have ****ed up. But, there are reasons to believe shit can and will get better.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

But, there are reasons to believe shit can and will get better.

And what would those reasons be?

And you can't say "rookie head coach that will learn" or "talent depleted roster".

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

And what would those reasons be?

And you can't say "rookie head coach that will learn" or "talent depleted roster".

No. I wouldn't say those things.

1. The continued improvement of our CB's. If we could add an Eric Berry to that mix and get Page healthy again, that's a pretty damn good secondary.

2. Hali has been a good surprise. Is he a Pro Bowler? No. But we can win with him. He went from being a bust last season, to a player we can with this season.

3. We have found some decent depth at LB. None of our ILB's are starters. But, Belcher and Mays provide decent depth. Studebaker looks like a solid OLB in the making, but he gets pushed around at the LOS. Maybe another offseason to build some bulk and work on technique will help with that. If we can add a starter from the draft and a decent starter F/A this offseason, we could be looking at a strong LB unit.

4. Haley's scheme looks pretty damn good. The execution and his game management, not so much. BUT, you can start to see what he wants to do with the offense. Now, he needs some better players and they need more practice, and we may be seeing the offense begin to blossom.

5. We have found a great back in Charles. I know, i know, he didn't start right away. But it's not like he wasn't getting used. Haley was looking for ways to get him the ball. LJ was a 2-down back with JC coming in at 3rd down. And to JC's credit, he has been getting better each week. But, so has our O-Line.

6. Our O-Line. They are starting to gel. They look like they understand there assignments. The start of the season, they didn't even know who they were suppose to block. They look like they know now. Albert continues to grow. I see a solid LT that is quick enough to run trap plays and screens. And you know that is what Haley wants to do. Maybe the reason why we didn't see a guy Like Richardson early, is because he wasn't ready. Callaghan and Ndukwe are young O-linemen that got in early. So, Haley is willing to play young O-linemen.

7. Chris Chambers. Now we have a vertical threat. Add a Golden Tate or someone with a like skill set to that mix....Now we have a soild WR core

There are things to be excited about. There are some positives. Pioli has a great track record for finding F/A's. That shit doesn't just disappear overnight. As long as they don't out think themselves in the Draft (tyson Jackson) Pioli will be alright. IF our GM has it together, then wins will come.

We have some pieces in place. Shit is starting to take mold. We can all go on for days about what they did wrong, but why?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

No. I wouldn't say those things.

1. The continued improvement of our CB's. If we could add an Eric Berry to that mix and get Page healthy again, that's a pretty damn good secondary.

2. Hali has been a good surprise. Is he a Pro Bowler? No. But we can win with him. He went from being a bust last season, to a player we can with this season.

3. We have found some decent depth at LB. None of our ILB's are starters. But, Belcher and Mays provide decent depth. Studebaker looks like a solid OLB in the making, but he gets pushed around at the LOS. Maybe another offseason to build some bulk and work on technique will help with that. If we can add a starter from the draft and a decent starter F/A this offseason, we could be looking at a strong LB unit.

4. Haley's scheme looks pretty damn good. The execution and his game management, not so much. BUT, you can start to see what he wants to do with the offense. Now, he needs some better players and they need more practice, and we may be seeing the offense begin to blossom.

5. We have found a great back in Charles. I know, i know, he didn't start right away. But it's not like he wasn't getting used. Haley was looking for ways to get him the ball. LJ was a 2-down back with JC coming in at 3rd down. And to JC's credit, he has been getting better each week. But, so has our O-Line.

6. Our O-Line. They are starting to gel. They look like they understand there assignments. The start of the season, they didn't even know who they were suppose to block. They look like they know now. Albert continues to grow. I see a solid LT that is quick enough to run trap plays and screens. And you know that is what Haley wants to do. Maybe the reason why we didn't see a guy Like Richardson early, is because he wasn't ready. Callaghan and Ndukwe are young O-linemen that got in early. So, Haley is willing to play young O-linemen.

7. Chris Chambers. Now we a vertical threat. Add a Golden Tate or someone with a like skill set to that mix....Now we have a soild WR core

There are things to be excited about. There are some positives. Pioli has a great track record for finding F/A's. That shit doesn't just disappear overnight. As long as they don't out think themselves in the Draft (tyson Jackson) Pioli will be alright. IF our GM has it together, then wins will come.

We have some pieces in place. Shit is starting to take mold. We can all go on for days about what they did wrong, but why?

1. Um you DO realize that Flowers, Carr, Charles Studebaker, etc. were already on the squad, right?

2. Hali is NO surprise: He is what he's ALWAYS been: An average pass rusher and completely useless against the run.

3. Haley's a completely bumble**** when it comes to evaluating the offensive line. Rudy Niswanger? Are you ****ing kidding me? Wade Smith is 10x the center as Niswanger. Play Nsukwe out of position at Right Tackle was a good thing? Starting O'C over Richardson was a good thing? JFC.

4. Chris Chambers is 31 years old and he'll be 32 to start the season. Who knows if he'll chose to return but firstly, he's not a long term solution and secondly, the wheels could fall off at any second. Plus, he's got a serious domestic situation to deal with.

I don't see anything here that you've stated that makes me believe that Todd Haley is a competent coach worthy of returning.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

No. I wouldn't say those things.

1. The continued improvement of our CB's. If we could add an Eric Berry to that mix and get Page healthy again, that's a pretty damn good secondary. I agree

2. Hali has been a good surprise. Is he a Pro Bowler? No. But we can win with him. He went from being a bust last season, to a player we can with this season. I agree

3. We have found some decent depth at LB. None of our ILB's are starters. But, Belcher and Mays provide decent depth. Studebaker looks like a solid OLB in the making, but he gets pushed around at the LOS. Maybe another offseason to build some bulk and work on technique will help with that. If we can add a starter from the draft and a decent starter F/A this offseason, we could be looking at a strong LB unit. I dont think any of our current LBers end up as longterm starters here except Hali. We need three starting linebackers

4. Haley's scheme looks pretty damn good. The execution and his game management, not so much. BUT, you can start to see what he wants to do with the offense. Now, he needs some better players and they need more practice, and we may be seeing the offense begin to blossom. after the first sentence, I thought you were about to go full reerun...glad you didnt, I somewhat agree with your statement there except the first sentence.

5. We have found a great back in Charles. I know, i know, he didn't start right away. But it's not like he wasn't getting used. Haley was looking for ways to get him the ball. LJ was a 2-down back with JC coming in at 3rd down. And to JC's credit, he has been getting better each week. But, so has our O-Line. this really isnt a credit to Haley though, IMHO Charles is excelling in spite of Haley so far, not because of him.

6. Our O-Line. They are starting to gel. They look like they understand there assignments. The start of the season, they didn't even know who they were suppose to block. They look like they know now. Albert continues to grow. I see a solid LT that is quick enough to run trap plays and screens. And you know that is what Haley wants to do. Maybe the reason why we didn't see a guy Like Richardson early, is because he wasn't ready. Callaghan and Ndukwe are young O-linemen that got in early. So, Haley is willing to play young O-linemen. Starting to ****ing jel? **** NO THEY ARENT! Albert is the only linemen that has improved at all all year. Just because we just played the Borwns and Bills, doesnt mean "the line is jelling"
7. Chris Chambers. Now we have a vertical threat. Add a Golden Tate or someone with a like skill set to that mix....Now we have a soild WR core Chris Chambers is old and has another year, or MAYBE 2 if we are lucky, and his attitude doesnt go into the shitter like it has at previous teams after a good first year.

There are things to be excited about. There are some positives. Pioli has a great track record for finding F/A's. That shit doesn't just disappear overnight. As long as they don't out think themselves in the Draft (tyson Jackson) Pioli will be alright. IF our GM has it together, then wins will come.

We have some pieces in place. Shit is starting to take mold. We can all go on for days about what they did wrong, but why?

I see where you are coming from, but it seems to me that you are looking for reasons to be positive instead of looking at it fully objectively. Maybe Im of base and I am letting the losing effect my ability to be objective because I am starting to presume the worst because that is what we have had to deal with recently.

I hope we made the right choices and that a lot of this first year is chalked up to a total flush of a season to begin with in retrospect a couple years from now.

time will tell

[The Franchise]

I have one question......

When Vrabel went down and Studebaker stepped in.....and had a lights out ****ing game.......

Why the **** did Vrabel immediately go back to his starting job? He's old and broken down and he's not helping this team out physically. Let Studebaker step into the starting role and see if he can repeat his performance. Vrabel is nothing more and should be nothing more than a part-time player right now. The same thing goes for Mike Brown.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

I have one question......

When Vrabel went down and Studebaker stepped in.....and had a lights out ****ing game.......

Why the **** did Vrabel immediately go back to his starting job? He's old and broken down and he's not helping this team out physically. Let Studebaker step into the starting role and see if he can repeat his performance. Vrabel is nothing more and should be nothing more than a part-time player right now. The same thing goes for Mike Brown.

That's an excellent question. So is the question about why Richardson wasn't given a chance to play RT earlier. Jwhit or another reporter should ask it at the next press conference rather than dwell on stupid crap that Haley won't answer like "Does Matt Cassel have enough self awareness to criticize himself."

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

That's an excellent question. So is the question about why Richardson wasn't given a chance to play RT earlier. Jwhit or another reporter should ask it at the next press conference rather than dwell on stupid crap that Haley won't answer like "Does Matt Cassel have enough self awareness to criticize himself."

Studebaker found himself in the right place, at the right time. Now he's a hero? Come on guys. He has no pass rush moves yet. He gets pushed back at the LOS.

If he were starting, then people would find ways to bitch about him too. He didn't look any better out there than Vrabel, but at least Vrabel can read the "O"

Now, im excited about Studebaker, don't get me wrong. I have hopes for him and i do think he is a good young talent. But he has not been that great. And Richardson got destroyed at RT in the preseason. It was obvious he had a long ways to go.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Studebaker found himself in the right place, at the right time. Now he's a hero? Come on guys. He has no pass rush moves yet. He gets pushed back at the LOS.

He's a 6th rounder from a Division III school. On a shit team like the Chiefs, who have absolutely no playoff hopes and whose primary mission SHOULD BE to find and build a youthful core of players, Mike Vrabel should be no where near the field except in the event of injury.

That's what is SO damn confusing about the direction of the current Chiefs:

There IS no direction.

PERIOD.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

He's a 6th rounder from a Division III school. On a shit team like the Chiefs, who have absolutely no playoff hopes and whose primary mission SHOULD BE to find and build a youthful core of players, Mike Vrabel should be no where near the field except in the event of injury.

That's what is SO damn confusing about the direction of the current Chiefs:

There IS no direction.

PERIOD.

yeah, damn those Chiefs for trying to win games. Lets not put our smartest OLB on the field in an effort to improve the play of the other 10 guys on the field for the sake of this DIV III guy.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

What the hell are you talking about? Wilkerson did shit here. 1 sack in his entire Chiefs career. 11 in 2 years in Tampa. And he didn't have the benefit of Jared Allen in Tampa.

What about the hordes of DL he "improved" in Buffalo and Cincinnati. Umm...who, exactly? Tim "T-Rex" Anderson?

You know what that shows me? That Krumrie is the problem, not the solution.

So, Krumrie is the problem in KC because his lines years ago for different teams werent very good? Really?

Who did he fail at doing his job with in KC is my question.
Jimmy Wilkerson was only coached by TK for 2006+2007 and its not his fault they had to dedicate the majority of the playing time at de to Jared Allen and their new first round DP LDE, Tamba Hali, those two were the producers. CP should have re-signed him and penciled him in as the starter after he traded JA.
Tanks improvement year to year here should be credited to his coaching.
Dorsey has been playing out of position since the day he got here, but look at the progress he made from last year to this one and then pat TK on the back and give him credit for it. He should have been a collosal bust as a 5-tec, on paper, I bet 90% of all bbs would have concluded that if polled on it.
You should see dramatic improvement in TJs play next year if my assumption is correct (this is of course if our, hopefuly new, dc doesnt want to bring in all his own assistants)

Shit lets look back at the job he did with one of the better players he was given in Buffalo and how he did without him, shall we?

Aaron Schobels sacks
2004 8
2005 12
2006 14 <-----this was his last year coached by TK
2007 6.5
2008 1
2009 7

Seems he fell of after TK left to me, whats it look like to you?

I honestly cant comment on the other prospects he was given there as I would be talking out of my arse and I try not to do that.

I would fairly say that there really aren't any players that he missed the boat on in KC, so far, as far as getting them to improve their play each year they were under his coaching, can you? (by you, I mean anybody on the forum, not trying to call you out, I value your opinion more than others here to be honest)

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

The Pittsburgh Steelers ARE the Pittsburgh Steelers for one reason and one reason alone:

THE DRAFT. PERIOD.

fyp

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BossChief

fyp

Uh, sorry, but you are WRONG.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Uh, sorry, but you are WRONG.

The team has consistently drafted well over the last 15-20 years and well before that. It is what allows them to allow FAs to always leave and they just insert the next guy in line that they drafted.

I guess I may have missed your point there. Im always game to learn a new trick, back your comment with something I can get behind. I love the Rooneys and know they are great owners but I guess I dont fully understand why you feel that way.

About every single difference maker they have was drafted by them, right or wrong?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BossChief

The team has consistently drafted well over the last 15-20 years and well before that. It is what allows them to allow FAs to always leave and they just insert the next guy in line that they drafted.

I guess I may have missed your point there. Im always game to learn a new trick, back your comment with something I can get behind. I love the Rooneys and know they are great owners but I guess I dont fully understand why you feel that way.

About every single difference maker they have was drafted by them, right or wrong?

JFC.

The "reason" that the Steelers are successful and have been successful for half a century is due to the ownership.

Don't you understand that?

They've had several GM's and only three coaches since the 70's. They're not successful because they've stuck with those coaches, they're successful because success starts from the top. The Rooneys have hired the right people for four decades.

That isn't an accident.